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AQuintus
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 661
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 Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Uncle Buck wrote: | | I haven't read through the entire thread, so maybe this has been covered. What I'm wondering is if there are any Steve Hutchinson quality guards out there who would be worth selecting with our first round pick? |
Chance Warmack and Barret Jones, both from Alabama, both project to be pro bowl type guards. |
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39761
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| AQuintus wrote: | | Uncle Buck wrote: | | I haven't read through the entire thread, so maybe this has been covered. What I'm wondering is if there are any Steve Hutchinson quality guards out there who would be worth selecting with our first round pick? |
Chance Warmack and Barret Jones, both from Alabama, both project to be pro bowl type guards. |
I dont think I could ever support taking a Guard in the top 20, especially for a team that has several first round worthy needs. Especially in a deep draft class, there should be some good guards falling to round 3 or 4 if the draft is as deep as advertised. |
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moss_is_1
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 4532
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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^ agreed. Unless it is far and away BPA then id rather reach for a receiver...otherwise trade back if we have to take a guard.
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| shah8 wrote: | | Ponder can't play as an NFL starting QB. He just can't. JaMarcus Russell can |
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AQuintus
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: |
I dont think I could ever support taking a Guard in the top 20, especially for a team that has several first round worthy needs. Especially in a deep draft class, there should be some good guards falling to round 3 or 4 if the draft is as deep as advertised. |
I agree with this. OG is a lot like RB in that there's always quality starters in the 3rd and 4th rounds. |
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perrynoid
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 3819
Location: Bismarck, Norse Dakota
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| AQuintus wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: |
I dont think I could ever support taking a Guard in the top 20, especially for a team that has several first round worthy needs. Especially in a deep draft class, there should be some good guards falling to round 3 or 4 if the draft is as deep as advertised. |
I agree with this. OG is a lot like RB in that there's always quality starters in the 3rd and 4th rounds. |
But would you pass up an elite OG just to pick the 3rd-4th best WR? Remember, Randall McDaniel was the 19th overall pick when he was drafted. Having elite OL on your team gives you a distinct advatage over what other teams can prepare for. For example, when the Vikings had McDaniel, short-yardage runs would typically be run behind him, and the conversion rate was very high. I just think you win the game at the LOS and having elite OL is the way to go.
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| perrynoid wrote: | | AQuintus wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: |
I dont think I could ever support taking a Guard in the top 20, especially for a team that has several first round worthy needs. Especially in a deep draft class, there should be some good guards falling to round 3 or 4 if the draft is as deep as advertised. |
I agree with this. OG is a lot like RB in that there's always quality starters in the 3rd and 4th rounds. |
But would you pass up an elite OG just to pick the 3rd-4th best WR? Remember, Randall McDaniel was the 19th overall pick when he was drafted. Having elite OL on your team gives you a distinct advatage over what other teams can prepare for. For example, when the Vikings had McDaniel, short-yardage runs would typically be run behind him, and the conversion rate was very high. I just think you win the game at the LOS and having elite OL is the way to go. |
3rd or 4th best WR vs the best OG isnt really relevant for me when considering prospects. There very well could be 3-4 great WR draft prospects in one draft, and Im sure most find more value in the WR position and most would probably argue WR being a bigger need.
I guess I havent been a believer of drafting one position over another simply because that player is the 3rd or 4th best prospect versus the best. If that 3rd or 4th best player is still a good valued prospect, there shouldnt be an issue. There is no sure thing either, you dont know if your going to be drafting a Randall McDaniel so saying that you could draft a HOF guard isnt a strong argument either, you very well could say the same about that 3rd or 4th WR prospect. Wasnt Jerry Rice the 2nd or 3rd WR drafted in his class? |
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AQuintus
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 661
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| perrynoid wrote: |
But would you pass up an elite OG just to pick the 3rd-4th best WR? |
No, but I might pass up an elite OG just to pick up the 2nd best MLB (Ogletree, though I'd prefer to trade back for him) or the 3rd or 4th best NT (Jenkins and (maybe) Jesse Williams).
In my opinion, our best bet in teh draft would be to go MLB and NT in the 1st and 2nd, WR in the 3rd, and then OG, CB, and S in the 4th, 5th, and 6th. |
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wcblack34
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4021
Location: Anywhere but Wisconsin.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| With the new rookie wage scale, I think it is far more likely that teams will take Guards and Centers high in the Draft. There really is no reason not to. It isn't like you are giving them outrageous signing bonuses now. We may not see them go in the Top 10, but from 10-20, I think it will become a lot more common. |
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this providence
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 10971
Location: Ugh.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Every year we talk about just how bad the guard play on this team is. And every year the same people say they can get a decent one mid to late rounds (the Vikings meanwhile avoid them altogether). Frankly, this type of thinking continues to be extremely flawed. Especially when the entire offense is geared around interior play. I don't see the problem with drafting a guy who will be a starter for the next decade. But that's just me, though.
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Frank Costello
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 8817
Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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I will kill myself if we go OL in round one next year.
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HighHopes
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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Location: Courtroom
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| this providence wrote: | | Every year we talk about just how bad the guard play on this team is. And every year the same people say they can get a decent one mid to late rounds (the Vikings meanwhile avoid them altogether). Frankly, this type of thinking continues to be extremely flawed. Especially when the entire offense is geared around interior play. I don't see the problem with drafting a guy who will be a starter for the next decade. But that's just me, though. |
At the same time, why cant we draft a LB, WR, or DT to play for the next decade?
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39761
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| this providence wrote: | | Every year we talk about just how bad the guard play on this team is. And every year the same people say they can get a decent one mid to late rounds (the Vikings meanwhile avoid them altogether). Frankly, this type of thinking continues to be extremely flawed. Especially when the entire offense is geared around interior play. I don't see the problem with drafting a guy who will be a starter for the next decade. But that's just me, though. |
The interior line isnt a first round problem. Its evident by some of the gaping holes Peterson has had to run through. Spending a first round pick on a OG is simply a waste of resources. Id consider using a 2nd round pick for the right prospect. The interior line could improve in pass protection, however, I think that its on Ponder just as much as it is on the interior line. Ponder holds onto the ball longer than he should sometimes. Fusco is a good enough starter at RG. Sullivan is a top notch Center. The only true issue I see going forward is Charlie Johnson. There simply isnt many first round OGs. |
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VIKENATOR2
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 774
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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If I'm Rick here is what I am doing:
- Pick up a Big bodied wide receiver in FA
1. Lb/Dt
2. G or WR
Trade 3 and a 4 pick to get back in the second to get either a safety or one of the positions specified above that dropped due to depth. After that look at cornerbacks, another WR, and possibly a tight end to replace Carlson.
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39761
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| VIKENATOR2 wrote: | If I'm Rick here is what I am doing:
- Pick up a Big bodied wide receiver in FA
1. Lb/Dt
2. G or WR
Trade 3 and a 4 pick to get back in the second to get either a safety or one of the positions specified above that dropped due to depth. After that look at cornerbacks, another WR, and possibly a tight end to replace Carlson. |
It would probably cost more than a 3rd and 4th to get into the 2nd rd. MN will be picking in the middle of the rounds so your probably going to have to trade both 4th rd picks with the third round pick. |
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perrynoid
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 3819
Location: Bismarck, Norse Dakota
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: | | VIKENATOR2 wrote: | If I'm Rick here is what I am doing:
- Pick up a Big bodied wide receiver in FA
1. Lb/Dt
2. G or WR
Trade 3 and a 4 pick to get back in the second to get either a safety or one of the positions specified above that dropped due to depth. After that look at cornerbacks, another WR, and possibly a tight end to replace Carlson. |
It would probably cost more than a 3rd and 4th to get into the 2nd rd. MN will be picking in the middle of the rounds so your probably going to have to trade both 4th rd picks with the third round pick. |
Perhaps then just trade a 3rd and 4th to move up in the 3rd if a player we covet falls? I like this off-season idea, but would pick up 2 WR FA's if possible. It will be interesting to see who teams let walk, due to a variety of circumstances. I'd go G/DT/LB our first 3 picks, not necessarily in that order, and depend on FA's to fill our other holes.
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