Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Wow Hurney is gone
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Carolina Panthers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DoLFaN


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 940
Location: MIAMI, FL
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a good move props to cam newton for speaking out,
the coaches are using him the wrong way
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rjkilla


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 5380
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly all the coaches needed to do was scrap the read option during the bye and maybe nobody has to lose their jobs. Keep running the offense east to west instead of north to south and everybody's gone. One crappy scheme ruins everything
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 13654
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just listened to Cam's press conference for the first time.

So now we've got 3 guys (Johnson, Newton, Williams) who have essentially questioned our coaches and when arguably the classiest player on the team does it, something must be open. And it seems to be directed at Chud's refusal to run the ball. Still though, Johnson especially needs to learn to just keep everything in house. The coaches have lost complete control of this team, from the Smith incident to Johnson's Twitter explosion to the frustration of Williams and Newton. We can't have all of this going publicly and it just feels like we're in complete disarray.

Unfortunately for Rivera, while I'm not close to being his biggest fan and thinks he's done a horrific job, I don't see how he can turn it around. The players are no longer believing in the system and the GM was just fired. It'd take a miracle for him to keep his job and about the only way possible is for Chud to get fired unless Chud has an epiphany and remembers to run the football. And I don't mean just zone read option.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OneBadCat


Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 726
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't still dont see how Cam called out the coaching staff. "Same script, same director" was referring to the outcome of the game as if it was a movie. He wasn't bashing his coordinators.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 13654
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneBadCat wrote:
I don't still dont see how Cam called out the coaching staff. "Same script, same director" was referring to the outcome of the game as if it was a movie. He wasn't bashing his coordinators.


I don't think that statement as him calling out the coordinators. I understood what he meant by that.

But the "I'm not the playcaller," "We gotta stay balanced," etc. It seems like he, along with Williams and others, is frustrated with the ridiculous game plan we have heading into games. The players just look to be losing faith in the coaches and the message. Reminds me exactly of the situation with Singletary in San Francisco. And SF had similar issues to us. High hopes with a disciplinary coach who seemed to have no grasp of the Xs and Os of the game (which Rivera does have a grasp on but he doesn't appear to have much of a clue as to what is needed out of a head coach). A horrid offensive coordinator who was eventually fired. Always was involved in close games yet found a way to lose. Everyone knew they were more talented than their record which is why they managed to finish 6-10 after starting 0-5.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Moody


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 694
Location: Roma
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did anyone really think the team came out looking any different after the bye? After all their proclaimed "soul searching", they didn't look like they had figured anything out.

I didn't think Cam looked bad, he missed a few throws but he really put the team on his back in the drives they did have. Receivers were dropping passes (Murphy on 3rd and long, Cam put it on the money) and Offensive line making life harder with two awful false starts (you're at home!!). If anything this offense has too much focus on Newton.


They offense just doesn't look like they're mentally in the game. The defense is hit and miss, literally.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Panthers11


Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 25123
Location: FSU: Go Noles
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowcool wrote:
Maybe I'm reading too much into it but Johnson pretty much just said who he truly feels is the issue with the team.

http://chirb.it/eIGPGK


I love it.
_________________

The HORNETS are back. Yes We Cam. Giancarlo <3.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fraziafraze07


Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 9228
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Players need to execute better. Period. But I blame the coaches for this team's struggles.

I've never seen a team continually be marginally worse than their opponents, regardless of who they are playing. One of the top two teams in the league. Sure, we can give them a hell of a game that requires some pretty spectacular things to happen inside of two minutes for them to win the game. A fairly poor Bucs team (albeit a division rival, and one who isn't terrible) or a schizophrenic Dallas team, sure we'll lose close ones to them to. Outside of the Giants game, we've been very close. And that is an indication that there is a coaching problem. We have the talent, but it's not being utilized properly.

The funny thing is, think about if we pull these close games out. Let's for arguments sake say that we didn't play well enough to win the Bucs game, and we weren't all that close in terms of final drives during the Dallas game, so keep those as losses. But we could've beat Atlanta (convert 4th and 1 or stop them from getting a FG) and Seattle (Cam completes that 4th and goal for a TD) had we just closed out. How different is the conversation if we win those and are 3-3?

Anyways, the main problem, as has been pointed out ad nauseum, is the offensive gameplan.

Not only are they not running enough, but they are running out of the read-option too much (read: exclusively). The offense needs to line up with Cam under center and hand the ball off to the backs. DeAngelo's best attribute is his vision. Allow him to pick the hole he wants to hit, dictate where he himself wants to run.

The read option has the RBs going sideways to start the play and takes away their choice of where to run. When the offensive line doesn't do their job or Cam doesn't make the right read, the option-read fails miserably. Run the ball conventionally, and those problems are mitigated to a degree.

You can still mix the option read in on occasion. The key is to have variety. I'd also have more short to intermediate options for Cam passing the ball. Yes, Cam is great at throwing downfield, but when that's all we do, the defense can key on that.
_________________


Rich7sena wrote:
Someone's going HAM on the button in Buffalo Wild Wings.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnydtarheel


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 4207
Location: Charlotte NC
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
And this isn’t a case of a team always throwing from behind. #Panthers have had 2nd half tie or lead in 15 of 22 games.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
In their 7 wins in past 2 yrs, #Panthers have called more run plays vs pass plays in 6 of them. #Panthers 6-1 when more runs vs passes.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
In their 22 games w/Chudzinski as OC: #Panthers averaging 23 runs/35 passes in 15 losses, while averaging 35 runs/23 passes in seven wins.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
Just did some math, so some #Panthers stats coming your way. Blame Hurney if u want, but he shouldn’t have been 1st scapegoat in line.

_________________

Thanks CK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnydtarheel


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 4207
Location: Charlotte NC
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still dont see how timing is good on this. We can't talk with employees of other teams until after the season and get permission.
_________________

Thanks CK
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
boondock


Moderator
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 21262
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnydtarheel wrote:
Quote:
Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
And this isn’t a case of a team always throwing from behind. #Panthers have had 2nd half tie or lead in 15 of 22 games.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
In their 7 wins in past 2 yrs, #Panthers have called more run plays vs pass plays in 6 of them. #Panthers 6-1 when more runs vs passes.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
In their 22 games w/Chudzinski as OC: #Panthers averaging 23 runs/35 passes in 15 losses, while averaging 35 runs/23 passes in seven wins.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
Just did some math, so some #Panthers stats coming your way. Blame Hurney if u want, but he shouldn’t have been 1st scapegoat in line.


I believe we had similar numbers when Fox was in town in regards to wins when we had a higher utilization of the run. This is a running team that takes shots down field with the passing game, we are not doing that.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fretgod99


Moderator
Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 19319
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnydtarheel wrote:
Still dont see how timing is good on this. We can't talk with employees of other teams until after the season and get permission.
That's the thing for me, too. I don't have a problem dropping Hurney, but what does dropping Hurney right now do to help anything?
_________________

MrDrew wrote:
Can somebody give me a good reason there's not a giant statue to fret somewhere?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
boondock


Moderator
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 21262
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fretgod99 wrote:
johnydtarheel wrote:
Still dont see how timing is good on this. We can't talk with employees of other teams until after the season and get permission.
That's the thing for me, too. I don't have a problem dropping Hurney, but what does dropping Hurney right now do to help anything?


I think it's going to allow Richardson to see where the real problem is. We all knew that Hurney needed to go for a while based on some of the poor decision he's made in recent years, but I believe Richardson wants to see if Rivera can turn it around and get the team to rally around him, pick up a few wins. Exit the season on a positive note, much like they did last year. If Rivera can do that, Richardson will probably give Rivera a vote of confidence while trying to find a new GM, if not; the new GM will find a new coach. That's the only thing I can come away with for reasoning for letting Marty go this early.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OneBadCat


Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 726
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnydtarheel wrote:
Quote:
Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
And this isn’t a case of a team always throwing from behind. #Panthers have had 2nd half tie or lead in 15 of 22 games.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
In their 7 wins in past 2 yrs, #Panthers have called more run plays vs pass plays in 6 of them. #Panthers 6-1 when more runs vs passes.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
In their 22 games w/Chudzinski as OC: #Panthers averaging 23 runs/35 passes in 15 losses, while averaging 35 runs/23 passes in seven wins.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
Just did some math, so some #Panthers stats coming your way. Blame Hurney if u want, but he shouldn’t have been 1st scapegoat in line.



This is misleading though. It's not like they aren't running the football out of choice, entirely. It's because the offensive line doesn't block for crap.
Or false start penalties and continuously dropped passes set them back into passing mode.

If the run plays would work in the first place they would keep running the ball. But his has to do with blocking and the scheme in which the read option is not allowing our linemen to attack the line of scrimmage in my opinion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Moody


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 694
Location: Roma
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneBadCat wrote:
johnydtarheel wrote:
Quote:
Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
And this isn’t a case of a team always throwing from behind. #Panthers have had 2nd half tie or lead in 15 of 22 games.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
In their 7 wins in past 2 yrs, #Panthers have called more run plays vs pass plays in 6 of them. #Panthers 6-1 when more runs vs passes.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
In their 22 games w/Chudzinski as OC: #Panthers averaging 23 runs/35 passes in 15 losses, while averaging 35 runs/23 passes in seven wins.

Bill Voth ‏@billvoth
Just did some math, so some #Panthers stats coming your way. Blame Hurney if u want, but he shouldn’t have been 1st scapegoat in line.



This is misleading though. It's not like they aren't running the football out of choice, entirely. It's because the offensive line doesn't block for crap.
Or false start penalties and continuously dropped passes set them back into passing mode.

If the run plays would work in the first place they would keep running the ball. But his has to do with blocking and the scheme in which the read option is not allowing our linemen to attack the line of scrimmage in my opinion.


Yeah, but sometimes a run game has to be established, it isn't always instant.

Take the Giants for example, when they played the 49ers they ran almost equally in the first half as they did in the second when they were up by 20. The runs in the second half were far more effective than in the first.

The 49ers did the same thing against the Seahawks. They had a QB who wasn't on point that night so they gave it to Gore. They have a solid oline which helps, but commitment to the run can't be understated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Carolina Panthers All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group