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Can We Contend With The QBs On This Roster?
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Can We Contend With The QBs On This Roster?
Yes
25%
 25%  [ 5 ]
No
65%
 65%  [ 13 ]
Whatever stchamp98 says, he's always right
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 20

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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Remember Kolb against the Vikings? Remember Kolb against the Ravens? The Steelers? The Seahawks? Let's not play the "Look at this game" card. It's not valid in terms of these two guys.
2. While Kolb's pass attempt:interception ratio is just shy of double what Skelton's is, an incredibly high mark, it's negated by the fact that Kolb's fumble:pass attempt ration is nearly half of what Skelton's is. Frankly, I don't care if it's an interception or a fumble. All turnovers are equal in my eyes.

I think that speaks for itself. I'd also add that saying Kolb is responsible for Andre Roberts becoming "relevant" is extremely careless, as there's simply nothing to back it up. Skelton just hit Andre for 7 catches, 100 yards and a TD last Sunday too mind you.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
1. Remember Kolb against the Vikings? Remember Kolb against the Ravens? The Steelers? The Seahawks? Let's not play the "Look at this game" card. It's not valid in terms of these two guys.
2. While Kolb's pass attempt:interception ratio is just shy of double what Skelton's is, an incredibly high mark, it's negated by the fact that Kolb's fumble:pass attempt ration is nearly half of what Skelton's is. Frankly, I don't care if it's an interception or a fumble. All turnovers are equal in my eyes.

I think that speaks for itself. I'd also add that saying Kolb is responsible for Andre Roberts becoming "relevant" is extremely careless, as there's simply nothing to back it up. Skelton just hit Andre for 7 catches, 100 yards and a TD last Sunday too mind you.


I thought we were comparing 2011 Skelton to 2012 Kolb?
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked if there was a tangible difference between 2011 Skelton and 2011 Kolb. The trade was made in 2011, that season needs to be weighed in terms of judging the trade.

Judging 5 starts in 2012, with a 3-2 record, isn't worth much.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
I asked if there was a tangible difference between 2011 Skelton and 2011 Kolb. The trade was made in 2011, that season needs to be weighed in terms of judging the trade.

Judging 5 starts in 2012, with a 3-2 record, isn't worth much.


I gotcha. Bottomline, and I know you don't take this for much, but I think we're a playoff team with Kolb and that we'll fall short with Skelton.

Again, just my opinion. Does Kevin have a limited ceiling? Yes, which is why I'm a big supporter of moving on in 2013 with a rookie first round QB.

However, I believe he gave us the best chance to win in 2012.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think our playoff chances are much different with Kolb than they are with Skelton personally. Maybe he gives us a little better chance but I believe it's measurable which is really where the problem lies. We gave up a starting CB, a 2nd round pick and a truck load of cash to add a guy who's only measurably better than a kid from Fordham we picked up in the 5th round 3 years ago. The whole point of making the trade for Kolb was to get a guy who was clearly better than what we already had (Which, at that time, was Skelton and Hall). Kolb hasn't been that guy and that's really where we've been burned. If we didn't make that trade we might be starting a quarterback, John Skelton, who is a bit worse than Kevin Kolb but we'd also likely have a better offensive line and/or a better defense. With a more consistent running game and a better, more consistent run defense I think we're probably 6-1 right now. Our record with Kolb in the game (Even including the 1 drive against Seattle) is 4-2 and honestly I don't think he wins us the Vikings game.That's kind of where I'm at.

The Kolb trade is really the biggest hinderance to this franchise right now IMHO, it simply cost us too much. We paid a Pro Bowl quarterback price and got average play in return.
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#1CARDSFAN


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Can We Contend With The QBs On This Roster? Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Straight forward question. Can we be serious playoff contenders with the QBs we have on the roster at the current time or do we need to move on to someone else? Should we be building around Kolb-Skelton-Lindley or do we need to turn the page?

Straight forward question, all answer/opinions welcome.

Give Kolb time. Fine tune the defense and yes I do believe that the team can contend with him under center. I don't believe the team can with Skelton or Lindley. If the chance to draft an upgrade at QB presents itself then I would do it.
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#1CARDSFAN


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For arguments sake the team before the last 3 games was 11-2 in their last 13 games. So yeah they can contend with either QB. they proved that. I still think that Kolb is the only chance to truly contend only based on my opinion.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Can We Contend With The QBs On This Roster? Reply with quote

#1CARDSFAN wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Straight forward question. Can we be serious playoff contenders with the QBs we have on the roster at the current time or do we need to move on to someone else? Should we be building around Kolb-Skelton-Lindley or do we need to turn the page?

Straight forward question, all answer/opinions welcome.

Give Kolb time. Fine tune the defense and yes I do believe that the team can contend with him under center. I don't believe the team can with Skelton or Lindley. If the chance to draft an upgrade at QB presents itself then I would do it.


You can say give him time but that's why we made the trade, we didn't want to have to wait 3 years to develop somebody. We thought could help us win in the immediate. He hasn't done that.
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SFaithful97


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that Kevin Kolb is good enough to lead a team to the playoffs and even experience some success there, but I do not believe that team is what the Cardinals are currently fielding. The Cardinals need to surround him with what the 49ers spent years trying to acquire for Alex Smith, a very good OL, and a running game that can take the pressure off of him. Much like Smith, Kolb is not the type of QB who can carry a one dimensional offense for a season (or full game for that matter).

The most important thing for the Cardinals has to be addressing their terrible OL. I think Kolb (and the running game) will benefit greatly from better play in the trenches.
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#1CARDSFAN


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Can We Contend With The QBs On This Roster? Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
#1CARDSFAN wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Straight forward question. Can we be serious playoff contenders with the QBs we have on the roster at the current time or do we need to move on to someone else? Should we be building around Kolb-Skelton-Lindley or do we need to turn the page?

Straight forward question, all answer/opinions welcome.

Give Kolb time. Fine tune the defense and yes I do believe that the team can contend with him under center. I don't believe the team can with Skelton or Lindley. If the chance to draft an upgrade at QB presents itself then I would do it.


You can say give him time but that's why we made the trade, we didn't want to have to wait 3 years to develop somebody. We thought could help us win in the immediate. He hasn't done that.

I mean give him time to make a play behind the O line. 2 seconds every drop is not giving the receivers time to get open and Kolb is not getting time to make a play.
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#1CARDSFAN


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFaithful97 wrote:
I believe that Kevin Kolb is good enough to lead a team to the playoffs and even experience some success there, but I do not believe that team is what the Cardinals are currently fielding. The Cardinals need to surround him with what the 49ers spent years trying to acquire for Alex Smith, a very good OL, and a running game that can take the pressure off of him. Much like Smith, Kolb is not the type of QB who can carry a one dimensional offense for a season (or full game for that matter).

The most important thing for the Cardinals has to be addressing their terrible OL. I think Kolb (and the running game) will benefit greatly from better play in the trenches.


While I agree with most of what you said I still think Kolb can make more plays down the field then Alex Smith can. Put Kolb on the 49er's and he can stretch the field more. But i do get your point.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I think Kolb (and the running game) will benefit greatly from better play in the trenches."

I disagree. A better offensive line isn't going to vastly improve Kevin Kolb's play as his biggest downfall is a lack of awareness inside the pocket. A better pocket doesn't make a player like Kolb better inside the pocket. That's something Kolb needs to work through himself, nothing we can do personnel wise will fix that for him.
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LuckyNumber11


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
"I think Kolb (and the running game) will benefit greatly from better play in the trenches."

I disagree. A better offensive line isn't going to vastly improve Kevin Kolb's play as his biggest downfall is a lack of awareness inside the pocket. A better pocket doesn't make a player like Kolb better inside the pocket. That's something Kolb needs to work through himself, nothing we can do personnel wise will fix that for him.


How could it not? When you get 2 to 4 seconds for your progressions hes going to have to make a quick decision and he won't be able to have the same yardage he would if he he did get the time.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LuckyNumber11 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
"I think Kolb (and the running game) will benefit greatly from better play in the trenches."

I disagree. A better offensive line isn't going to vastly improve Kevin Kolb's play as his biggest downfall is a lack of awareness inside the pocket. A better pocket doesn't make a player like Kolb better inside the pocket. That's something Kolb needs to work through himself, nothing we can do personnel wise will fix that for him.


How could it not? When you get 2 to 4 seconds for your progressions hes going to have to make a quick decision and he won't be able to have the same yardage he would if he he did get the time.


Just watch Kolb play. He's not taking 2-4 seconds (That's not an accurate timetable anway) and then being forced to move ONLY when the protection is shoddy, Kevin Kolb does on nearly every snap he takes regardless of protection. No offensive line changes that.

It's easy, just watch Kolb play.
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SFaithful97


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
LuckyNumber11 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
"I think Kolb (and the running game) will benefit greatly from better play in the trenches."

I disagree. A better offensive line isn't going to vastly improve Kevin Kolb's play as his biggest downfall is a lack of awareness inside the pocket. A better pocket doesn't make a player like Kolb better inside the pocket. That's something Kolb needs to work through himself, nothing we can do personnel wise will fix that for him.


How could it not? When you get 2 to 4 seconds for your progressions hes going to have to make a quick decision and he won't be able to have the same yardage he would if he he did get the time.


Just watch Kolb play. He's not taking 2-4 seconds (That's not an accurate timetable anway) and then being forced to move ONLY when the protection is shoddy, Kevin Kolb does on nearly every snap he takes regardless of protection. No offensive line changes that.

It's easy, just watch Kolb play.
Again though look at it this way. If you as the QB have no confidence in you OL, you start feeling pressure even when there is none. I think if he got the time to make his reads more consistently he would and can start to be better in that regard. Not to mention the second part of what I mentioned. It is extremely difficult for the best of QB's to make up for the worst running game in football. When your QB has the limitations of a guy like Kolb, it is only going to make it worse. If teams can play their nickle defense against your base package and not worry too much about getting gashed on the ground, it is much harder to pass the football.
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