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Can We Contend With The QBs On This Roster?
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Can We Contend With The QBs On This Roster?
Yes
25%
 25%  [ 5 ]
No
65%
 65%  [ 13 ]
Whatever stchamp98 says, he's always right
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 20

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SuperFlyTNT


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Ataal wrote:
I may not be a Cardinals' fan, but I've seen pretty much every game since I moved to Arizona 8 years ago.

So, here are my thoughts:

If the Cardinals can fix their O-line problem, a lot of other problems will fix itself(run game, QB play, etc...). With a good O-line, Skelton or Kolb can put the Cardinals into playoff contention. Enough to win a Super Bowl? Well, that's a different story. I would have to say no. A lot of things would have to go right.

The Cardinals are in a bad spot. Their defense and my favorite WR, Fitzgerald, keeps them in enough games to pick middle of the pack in the draft. And, they need linemen more than they need a QB. This will be at least a two year project.

Someone has got to be accountable at some point for this O-line problem. I don't know the coaches very well, but it's been a long stemmed problem from what I've seen. Picking offensive lineman in the upper end of the draft may not be a popular thing to do in most cases, but at this point, I think it would be unpopular not to. Even casual fans are starting to understand this issue and aren't simply saying their QB "sucks."

Anyway, good luck on Monday, guys/gals. I'll be at the game!


Bolded: Simply acquiring offensive lineman is anything but a 2 year project. The team just beat us, the Minnesota Vikings, did it in 1. No reason we or anyone else can't do the same.


We are also going to be boosted by essentially adding a "Free Agent" to this line in Levi Brown.


I'm not saying it's going to happen because I obviously don't know (If I did, I wouldn't be posting at FF. I'd be working for an NFL team somwhere!!!) but IF we can add a legitimate upgrade at RG and get Levi back, we'll have siginificantly upgraded 2 OL spots in 1 offseason.


I was actually optimistic about the line going into this season because it looked like the FO and coaches got what they wanted in Adam Snyder despite the negative publicity - and the thought that he would perform well if restricted to just playing a single position - RG.

Well, then Levi got hurt and Snyder - who apparently has been dealing with elbow issues all year - has been bad. Add the fact that the line is developing with a rookie RT and that's just too many issues. I'll be optimistic again next season if we do what champ said (RG upgrade + Levi back).

Lets also not forget the fact that Deuce couldn't lay off the island food enough and just plain didn't have the work-ethic to fulfill his potential here.
TBOLITNFL http://www.tbolitnfl.com/ - if you guys haven't seen some of this motivational nonsense it's pretty darn funny, but even a bit sad considering all the money he lost out on.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't overly optimistic about the offensive line but I didn't think it would be this bad either.

Whiz/Graves cut bait 1 year after signing Al Johnson to hefty contract back in 07. They need to do the same with Snyder. Just cut your losses and move on.
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younggun1273


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
I wasn't overly optimistic about the offensive line but I didn't think it would be this bad either.

Whiz/Graves cut bait 1 year after signing Al Johnson to hefty contract back in 07. They need to do the same with Snyder. Just cut your losses and move on.


That's true. The only reason this case is different is that Johnson was cut because we had Sendlein who was playing well while we don't have anyone behind Snyder.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

younggun1273 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
I wasn't overly optimistic about the offensive line but I didn't think it would be this bad either.

Whiz/Graves cut bait 1 year after signing Al Johnson to hefty contract back in 07. They need to do the same with Snyder. Just cut your losses and move on.


That's true. The only reason this case is different is that Johnson was cut because we had Sendlein who was playing well while we don't have anyone behind Snyder.


That's true too. Still, I hope that's what happens.
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shawn


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Johnson...I forgot he even existed.

I actually had to google his name to see that he actually played here for a while. wierd, because my memory is usually pretty spot on, especially with former players.

not that Al Johnson's tenure here was a memorable one.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL, Johnson's tenure was anything but memorable.

We cut Terrance Holt after 1 season too but there too we had Antrel Rolle ready to step in after Whiz made the decision to move him off the corner spot.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our offensive free agents since Whiz tookover...

Adam Snyder
Todd Heap
Jeff King
Chansi Stuckey
Daryn Colledge
Rex Hadnot
Derek Andersen
Alan Faneca
Anthony Becht
Brian St. Pierre
Jerame Tuman
Sean Morey
Al Johnson
Marcel Shipp
Terrelle Smith

Let me know if I missed anyone...
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerheme Urban is missing. Shipp was already here when Whiz came on.

Guess you could technically call Morey a wide receiver but he really wasn't. Pure special teamer, nothing more.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Jerheme Urban is missing. Shipp was already here when Whiz came on.

Guess you could technically call Morey a wide receiver but he really wasn't. Pure special teamer, nothing more.


Good call.

Regardless, I don't think you could find a worst list in the NFL over a 5 year span.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyV wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Jerheme Urban is missing. Shipp was already here when Whiz came on.

Guess you could technically call Morey a wide receiver but he really wasn't. Pure special teamer, nothing more.


Good call.

Regardless, I don't think you could find a worst list in the NFL over a 5 year span.


It's an ugly list for sure but you need to keep it into context. Most of those guys were only signed as specialty players or 3rd string emergency guys. Tuman, Becht, Smith, St. Pierre, Stuckey weren't signed as big time pieces of this offense. Hard to say we really failed with them, as they're simply niche journeyman. Maybe knock Stuckey because he didn't provide that occasional deep threat we thought he would but I wouldn't knock Whiz or Graves for any of the others.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
JohnnyV wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Jerheme Urban is missing. Shipp was already here when Whiz came on.

Guess you could technically call Morey a wide receiver but he really wasn't. Pure special teamer, nothing more.


Good call.

Regardless, I don't think you could find a worst list in the NFL over a 5 year span.


It's an ugly list for sure but you need to keep it into context. Most of those guys were only signed as specialty players or 3rd string emergency guys. Tuman, Becht, Smith, St. Pierre, Stuckey weren't signed as big time pieces of this offense. Hard to say we really failed with them, as they're simply niche journeyman. Maybe knock Stuckey because he didn't provide that occasional deep threat we thought he would but I wouldn't knock Whiz or Graves for any of the others.


Somers said yesterday in his chat that the team was in love with Snyder before free agency started. They expected big things from him...

This list is probably magnified because our offensive draft picks have also been lucklaster, so we relied on some of these veterans more than we thought we would.

Also, when you resign Calais, Adrian, Larry, Daryl and Darnell to larger deals, that leaves little money to go out and get good to great help in the free agent market specfically on offense.

Large bust contracts like Stewart Bradley's don't help much either.

Group effort.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Offensive picks have been up and down. Levi was a bad pick, Early hasn't worked out, Beanie's just been average. Williams is just a tough deal beings as the injuries were completely unforeseen but they still happened and not having/not having him 100% has been a hinderance to this offense. That said Andre Roberts gets better every week, Housler gets better every week, LSH was a robbery in round 7. Been up and down. The only notable deal there is the lack of offensive line players and the fact that there's no quarterback selection to really judge. I mean, I wouldn't judge Skelton. 3rd year player we got in round 5 out of Fordham. To be perfectly honest, even though he's not helping our offense/team right now, he's exceeding my draft day expectations. I said the day we took him he was a 4-5 year project.

The big thing here is the money we've spent on re-signing our own guys (Bradley's deal actually was quite small. And he took a paycut. IMO, that's a non-factor) and the money/pick/player we invested in Kevin Kolb. When you invest as much as we have in those guys it doesn't leave much left over for anyone else. That, in all honesty, is probably the biggest hurt we're feeling right now. That Kolb hasn't been the franchise player we hoped we were getting. Had we not made that trade we'd have saved a ton of money, money we could have thrown at a big time player like a Carl Nicks and then we could have used what would have been our 2nd pick on a guy like Mike Adams. Imagine our offensive line if that had happened. We wouldn't be where we're at right now, I assure you that.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Offensive picks have been up and down. Levi was a bad pick, Early hasn't worked out, Beanie's just been average. Williams is just a tough deal beings as the injuries were completely unforeseen but they still happened and not having/not having him 100% has been a hinderance to this offense. That said Andre Roberts gets better every week, Housler gets better every week, LSH was a robbery in round 7. Been up and down. The only notable deal there is the lack of offensive line players and the fact that there's no quarterback selection to really judge. I mean, I wouldn't judge Skelton. 3rd year player we got in round 5 out of Fordham. To be perfectly honest, even though he's not helping our offense/team right now, he's exceeding my draft day expectations. I said the day we took him he was a 4-5 year project.

The big thing here is the money we've spent on re-signing our own guys (Bradley's deal actually was quite small. And he took a paycut. IMO, that's a non-factor) and the money/pick/player we invested in Kevin Kolb. When you invest as much as we have in those guys it doesn't leave much left over for anyone else. That, in all honesty, is probably the biggest hurt we're feeling right now. That Kolb hasn't been the franchise player we hoped we were getting. Had we not made that trade we'd have saved a ton of money, money we could have thrown at a big time player like a Carl Nicks and then we could have used what would have been our 2nd pick on a guy like Mike Adams. Imagine our offensive line if that had happened. We wouldn't be where we're at right now, I assure you that.


Who would be our QB? Skelton? I'm not so sure we're a lot better even if we had Nicks and Mike Adams with Skelton as our QB...

Yes the protection and run blocking would be improved, but nothing will fix Skelton's inacurracy and lack of feel for the position.

Now if your talking down the line, abosutley we'd be better off.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyV wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Offensive picks have been up and down. Levi was a bad pick, Early hasn't worked out, Beanie's just been average. Williams is just a tough deal beings as the injuries were completely unforeseen but they still happened and not having/not having him 100% has been a hinderance to this offense. That said Andre Roberts gets better every week, Housler gets better every week, LSH was a robbery in round 7. Been up and down. The only notable deal there is the lack of offensive line players and the fact that there's no quarterback selection to really judge. I mean, I wouldn't judge Skelton. 3rd year player we got in round 5 out of Fordham. To be perfectly honest, even though he's not helping our offense/team right now, he's exceeding my draft day expectations. I said the day we took him he was a 4-5 year project.

The big thing here is the money we've spent on re-signing our own guys (Bradley's deal actually was quite small. And he took a paycut. IMO, that's a non-factor) and the money/pick/player we invested in Kevin Kolb. When you invest as much as we have in those guys it doesn't leave much left over for anyone else. That, in all honesty, is probably the biggest hurt we're feeling right now. That Kolb hasn't been the franchise player we hoped we were getting. Had we not made that trade we'd have saved a ton of money, money we could have thrown at a big time player like a Carl Nicks and then we could have used what would have been our 2nd pick on a guy like Mike Adams. Imagine our offensive line if that had happened. We wouldn't be where we're at right now, I assure you that.


Who would be our QB? Skelton? I'm not so sure we're a lot better even if we had Nicks and Mike Adams with Skelton as our QB...

Yes the protection and run blocking would be improved, but nothing will fix Skelton's inacurracy and lack of feel for the position.

Now if your talking down the line, abosutley we'd be better off.


Is Skelton's performance from 2011 to today really that big a drop off from Kevin Kolb's? I think the answer is no.

Ya we'd probably be bad at the QB positon but having that pick and that money to spend would allow us to build a better offensive line, which would in turn allow us to run the football more consistently. Maybe it'd help build the defense more, allowing us to better contain CJ Spiller and Adrian Peterson. If those two hadn't don't run all over us, we'd be 6-1 right now regardless of who was under center. It changes everything for us for the better if that trade doesn't happen for the price we paid.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
JohnnyV wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Offensive picks have been up and down. Levi was a bad pick, Early hasn't worked out, Beanie's just been average. Williams is just a tough deal beings as the injuries were completely unforeseen but they still happened and not having/not having him 100% has been a hinderance to this offense. That said Andre Roberts gets better every week, Housler gets better every week, LSH was a robbery in round 7. Been up and down. The only notable deal there is the lack of offensive line players and the fact that there's no quarterback selection to really judge. I mean, I wouldn't judge Skelton. 3rd year player we got in round 5 out of Fordham. To be perfectly honest, even though he's not helping our offense/team right now, he's exceeding my draft day expectations. I said the day we took him he was a 4-5 year project.

The big thing here is the money we've spent on re-signing our own guys (Bradley's deal actually was quite small. And he took a paycut. IMO, that's a non-factor) and the money/pick/player we invested in Kevin Kolb. When you invest as much as we have in those guys it doesn't leave much left over for anyone else. That, in all honesty, is probably the biggest hurt we're feeling right now. That Kolb hasn't been the franchise player we hoped we were getting. Had we not made that trade we'd have saved a ton of money, money we could have thrown at a big time player like a Carl Nicks and then we could have used what would have been our 2nd pick on a guy like Mike Adams. Imagine our offensive line if that had happened. We wouldn't be where we're at right now, I assure you that.


Who would be our QB? Skelton? I'm not so sure we're a lot better even if we had Nicks and Mike Adams with Skelton as our QB...

Yes the protection and run blocking would be improved, but nothing will fix Skelton's inacurracy and lack of feel for the position.

Now if your talking down the line, abosutley we'd be better off.


Is Skelton's performance from 2011 to today really that big a drop off from Kevin Kolb's? I think the answer is no.

Ya we'd probably be bad at the QB positon but having that pick and that money to spend would allow us to build a better offensive line, which would in turn allow us to run the football more consistently. Maybe it'd help build the defense more, allowing us to better contain CJ Spiller and Adrian Peterson. If those two hadn't don't run all over us, we'd be 6-1 right now regardless of who was under center. It changes everything for us for the better if that trade doesn't happen for the price we paid.


I think there's a pretty big difference. Skelton benefitted from improved play from Levi last season down the stretch, and Jeremy Bridges was for the most part, better than Massie has been. Also Snyder is subtraction by addition.

He also had Beanie at his disposal. Kolb began making Andre Roberts relevant.

Skelton was horrendous in the first half of games last year. Remember the Cinci game? In San Fran? Cleveland?

Kolb may have struggled at times, but Skelton at his worst compared to Kolb at his worst isn't close. Kolb at his best limits turnovers, something Skelton can't do at his best. His top game last year, Philly, came with a couple pics including one for a touchdown.

Regardless of the game, Skelton has a few INTs in store. Kolb at least tries to limit those.
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