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(Alex) Smith makes it too easy for defenses
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFaithful97 wrote:
Laughing

To be clear - Family Guy makes me smile. I imagine myself as the Italian...because I am.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
That's not fair at all.


I agree that Alex is getting better pass pro this year, in general, than last year, and that he has taken some sacks that were avoidable. But I think the point that was being made was reasonable. When the "average sack" is around 3 seconds, a single instance of running around from the pocket to one sideline, and then back to the other, taking a lot of time to do that and then ending in a sack will indeed cause the average to go up considerably. So it is possible that most sacks are happening as fast as other guys and a couple of plays skew the average. I'm not saying that's the case. I have no idea how many "unusually long" sacks Alex has taken. All I'm saying is that the point that the average might be skewed upwards by a couple of long of scrambles that take a long time and then end up going down as a sack is not as "unfair" as it might seem.


The thing is, every QB will run around and avoid the sack which will "skew" the stats. Even Peyton Manning has ran around and hurdled a defender. Wasn't he running for his life last year as well? The stats are accurate and consistent with what we've seen. The line has been giving him more than enough time to go through his reads, and he's not taking advantage of them.

Honestly, it's about as fair as saying Alex's passing stats are skewed because his receivers get all the yards for him.


Yeah. I know. That's why I said I have no idea now many unusually long sacks he's taken. And I don't know how that compares to last year, or to other guys. Just that the math allows for a couple of "long" sacks to skew the average. I'm in agreement with the notion that he's getting better pass pro this year and taking unnecessary sacks, and that the stats you posted tend to show that pretty convincingly - even though I don't think they prove it conclusively.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
The line has been giving him more than enough time to go through his reads, and he's not taking advantage of them.



I look at your comment bolded above and then I think about the following comment from Steve Young who seems to be citing an excellent example of Alex doing precisely what your comment says he is not doing. He clearly does do this someitmes, just as surely as he sometimes does not. The question to me is not does he ALWAYS take advantage of the time he gets, the question is does he do it enough for us to be a winning team. And, probably important too, is he doing it more now than in the past. Given our record and the significant improvement in his completion percentage and his QBR I'd suggest that he is.

"Helping boost Smith's passing stats were the yards gained after catches by Michael Crabtree and Randy Moss. Crabtree produced two touchdown catches, but Moss' 47-yard touchdown catch-and-run really ignited a team-wide celebration. Young said half the league's quarterbacks couldn't make the progressive read that led Smith back to Moss, who's made only 13 receptions all season. "
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
The line has been giving him more than enough time to go through his reads, and he's not taking advantage of them.



I look at your comment bolded above and then I think about the following comment from Steve Young who seems to be citing an excellent example of Alex doing precisely what your comment says he is not doing. He clearly does do this someitmes, just as surely as he sometimes does not. The question to me is not does he ALWAYS take advantage of the time he gets, the question is does he do it enough for us to be a winning team. And, probably important too, is he doing it more now than in the past. Given our record and the significant improvement in his completion percentage and his QBR I'd suggest that he is.

"Helping boost Smith's passing stats were the yards gained after catches by Michael Crabtree and Randy Moss. Crabtree produced two touchdown catches, but Moss' 47-yard touchdown catch-and-run really ignited a team-wide celebration. Young said half the league's quarterbacks couldn't make the progressive read that led Smith back to Moss, who's made only 13 receptions all season. "


This past game was the first game in quite a few where I thought Alex DID do really well moving through progressions. The few weeks before that were just horrid in that department - 'if the guy I want to go to isn't there, and the checkdown isn't an option, I take the sack or run like a chicken with its head cut off' isn't an intriguing viewpoint to the game. No complaints against the Cardinals, however (or in a few earlier games this year either).
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
The line has been giving him more than enough time to go through his reads, and he's not taking advantage of them.



I look at your comment bolded above and then I think about the following comment from Steve Young who seems to be citing an excellent example of Alex doing precisely what your comment says he is not doing. He clearly does do this someitmes, just as surely as he sometimes does not. The question to me is not does he ALWAYS take advantage of the time he gets, the question is does he do it enough for us to be a winning team. And, probably important too, is he doing it more now than in the past. Given our record and the significant improvement in his completion percentage and his QBR I'd suggest that he is.

"Helping boost Smith's passing stats were the yards gained after catches by Michael Crabtree and Randy Moss. Crabtree produced two touchdown catches, but Moss' 47-yard touchdown catch-and-run really ignited a team-wide celebration. Young said half the league's quarterbacks couldn't make the progressive read that led Smith back to Moss, who's made only 13 receptions all season. "


This past game was the first game in quite a few where I thought Alex DID do really well moving through progressions. The few weeks before that were just horrid in that department - 'if the guy I want to go to isn't there, and the checkdown isn't an option, I take the sack or run like a chicken with its head cut off' isn't an intriguing viewpoint to the game. No complaints against the Cardinals, however (or in a few earlier games this year either).



You realize the Giants' and Seahawks' defenses often do that to QBs, right? We give a lot of credit to our defense when it shuts down an opposing QB, but we give none to other defenses when they shut down ours. When it happens, it's ONLY because Alex is wildly inconsistent, right?
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
You realize the Giants' and Seahawks' defenses often do that to QBs, right? We give a lot of credit to our defense when it shuts down an opposing QB, but we give none to other defenses when they shut down ours. When it happens, it's ONLY because Alex is wildly inconsistent, right?


Shutting down - yes.

Locking onto one target and refusing to look elsewhere - no.

I give credit to those defenses for keeping the yardage low, keeping YPA low, keeping the completion percentage down. It's not to say there can't be improvement there. He also wasn't too great at it against the Jets and Vikings either.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
You realize the Giants' and Seahawks' defenses often do that to QBs, right? We give a lot of credit to our defense when it shuts down an opposing QB, but we give none to other defenses when they shut down ours. When it happens, it's ONLY because Alex is wildly inconsistent, right?


Shutting down - yes.

Locking onto one target and refusing to look elsewhere - no.

I give credit to those defenses for keeping the yardage low, keeping YPA low, keeping the completion percentage down. It's not to say there can't be improvement there. He also wasn't too great at it against the Jets and Vikings either.



Can you actually see Alex's eyes on your TV? I use [inappropriate/removed] internet streams, so maybe I don't have access to as much information as I should. But how do you know he's locked on one target, and not looking at two or three guys on the same side of the field? Just because he doesn't feign interest to the other side or pump fakes?
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
You realize the Giants' and Seahawks' defenses often do that to QBs, right? We give a lot of credit to our defense when it shuts down an opposing QB, but we give none to other defenses when they shut down ours. When it happens, it's ONLY because Alex is wildly inconsistent, right?


Shutting down - yes.

Locking onto one target and refusing to look elsewhere - no.

I give credit to those defenses for keeping the yardage low, keeping YPA low, keeping the completion percentage down. It's not to say there can't be improvement there. He also wasn't too great at it against the Jets and Vikings either.



Can you actually see Alex's eyes on your TV? I use [inappropriate/removed] internet streams, so maybe I don't have access to as much information as I should. But how do you know he's locked on one target, and not looking at two or three guys on the same side of the field? Just because he doesn't feign interest to the other side or pump fakes?


I do watch it live in HD weekly, but I don't think it means anything, haha.

Mostly - I'm not an expert. I recognize this. So I trust others in observations and breakdowns of films. Former QBs/coaches etc. breaking down film and showing him locking onto one target, that sort of thing. I mean, I did play up through the highschool level, so I understand the field of vision with a football helmet on - you can't see the whole width of a play without some head movement.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
The line has been giving him more than enough time to go through his reads, and he's not taking advantage of them.



I look at your comment bolded above and then I think about the following comment from Steve Young who seems to be citing an excellent example of Alex doing precisely what your comment says he is not doing. He clearly does do this someitmes, just as surely as he sometimes does not. The question to me is not does he ALWAYS take advantage of the time he gets, the question is does he do it enough for us to be a winning team. And, probably important too, is he doing it more now than in the past. Given our record and the significant improvement in his completion percentage and his QBR I'd suggest that he is.

"Helping boost Smith's passing stats were the yards gained after catches by Michael Crabtree and Randy Moss. Crabtree produced two touchdown catches, but Moss' 47-yard touchdown catch-and-run really ignited a team-wide celebration. Young said half the league's quarterbacks couldn't make the progressive read that led Smith back to Moss, who's made only 13 receptions all season. "


This past game was the first game in quite a few where I thought Alex DID do really well moving through progressions. The few weeks before that were just horrid in that department - 'if the guy I want to go to isn't there, and the checkdown isn't an option, I take the sack or run like a chicken with its head cut off' isn't an intriguing viewpoint to the game. No complaints against the Cardinals, however (or in a few earlier games this year either).


My "eyeball test", unrealiable as it is, agrees with the general sentiment of the past few pages that Alex is getting better pass pro than last year, and holding the ball a little longer than necessary more often than last yar. I actually don't remember the games earlier this year quite as well as the most recent ones. Maybe it was that 3 int game though that somehow made him be even more reluctant than usual to take risky throws. Whatever it is, I join in the desire for him to throw it away a little quicker when no one is open.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:


My "eyeball test", unrealiable as it is, agrees with the general sentiment of the past few pages that Alex is getting better pass pro than last year, and holding the ball a little longer than necessary more often than last yar. I actually don't remember the games earlier this year quite as well as the most recent ones. Maybe it was that 3 int game though that somehow made him be even more reluctant than usual to take risky throws. Whatever it is, I join in the desire for him to throw it away a little quicker when no one is open.


That a boy! Got to give in eventually. Makes things flow well. Damn proud of ya... and I will now join you. Alex is decent at best, but we need a real QB to make real noise in the NFL. I am sick and tired of Jim's ignorance. Something must change. We can not survive a mediocre QB, and we shouldn't have to.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
big9erfan wrote:


My "eyeball test", unrealiable as it is, agrees with the general sentiment of the past few pages that Alex is getting better pass pro than last year, and holding the ball a little longer than necessary more often than last yar. I actually don't remember the games earlier this year quite as well as the most recent ones. Maybe it was that 3 int game though that somehow made him be even more reluctant than usual to take risky throws. Whatever it is, I join in the desire for him to throw it away a little quicker when no one is open.


That a boy! Got to give in eventually. Makes things flow well. Damn proud of ya... and I will now join you. Alex is decent at best, but we need a real QB to make real noise in the NFL. I am sick and tired of Jim's ignorance. Something must change. We can not survive a mediocre QB, and we shouldn't have to.


Him saying that Alex should get rid of the ball quicker isn't giving in.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
FOX analyst: Smith should take bow for taking sacks

Quote:
Tim Ryan views Smith’s sack-taking as more of a virtue than a weakness. Smith is willing to take punishment in order to avoid picks, Ryan said, not a tradeoff all QBs are willing to make. “He’s holding the ball sometimes because he doesn’t want to make a mistake,” said Ryan. “And I give him a lot of credit for it. Most QBs don’t want to take a hit and they’re just going to let it fly right into coverage for an interception. He holds in there at his own risk because he’s managing risk for his football team, in my opinion.” “They know how good they are on offense, with the run game, then you have the defense and special teams,” Ryan said. “As long as they don’t have catastrophic turnovers which get them behind, they can stay with their 33 runs a game and they’re going to win 95 % of those.” The 49ers are 18-0 under Harbaugh when they’ve had at least 25 runs a game. They are 6-0 this season when they’ve had fewer than two turnovers. “Only they can beat themselves with a couple of turnovers or self-inflicted wounds,” Ryan said. “They’re just too good at all positions, in my opinion, including qb, the way he plays.”


http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/11/08/fox-analyst-smith-should-take-bow-for-willingness-to-take-sacks/


I want him to throw it away because for one, Alex could be injured by taking sacks. So why take that risk? Just throw it away.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex will get hurt eventually taking a sack. That sack he took in the Vikes game was beyond stupid on his part. He had all day to see that nobody was open and then he just sat there and took a sack unnecessarily when he was already outside the pocket and could've easily thrown it away.
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49ersfan


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex was 7/8 for 72 yards and 1 TD in limited time. He also had a 4th down conversion on a QB sneak.

Overall, i think he played well. He was shaky in the first series with a bad sack, and he had a bad pass to Manningham on the next series, but he buckled down and started playing well. Sure, a lot of it was YAC, but i won't hate on the guy for producing.

Crabs became invisible after Alex was injured.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
Alex was 7/8 for 72 yards and 1 TD in limited time. He also had a 4th down conversion on a QB sneak.

Overall, i think he played well. He was shaky in the first series with a bad sack, and he had a bad pass to Manningham on the next series, but he buckled down and started playing well. Sure, a lot of it was YAC, but i won't hate on the guy for producing.

Crabs became invisible after Alex was injured.


Yes, he did well after that first series. I hope his injury isn't bad and won't keep him away for a game.
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