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4 reasons Saints won’t draft a pass rusher in round 1...
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:13 pm    Post subject: 4 reasons Saints won’t draft a pass rusher in round 1... Reply with quote

Like everyone I was quick to concede the obvious that this team needs a pass rusher in the worst way! However, after really studying this roster I’m convinced that this team will pass on an edge rusher in the initial round of the upcoming NFL draft regardless of slot selection for a few reasons.

1. Current player commitment:
It’s been debated on this site about which current players will go and which will stay. I myself was one to say this team would benefit from purging itself of aging hefty salary veterans such as Vilma and Smith but that was my opinion on what I felt should be done. The fact of the matter is though that this organization, front office and coaching staff has a firm belief in certain players and truth be told, if those players want to stay and work with Loomis and the cap then it will happen.

While I still see players such as Sedrick Ellis, Will Hearing, Scott Shanle & Turk McBride either not retained or released. Players such as Jonathan Vilma, Will Smith & Jermon Bushrod will all be given the opportunity to work out a deal to remain Saints in 2013.

2. Free Agency:
This team is and needs to be built to win a super bowl within the next 4 years (the time remaining on Brees contract). This is a win now attitude in New Orleans and while our window is wide open, it will slowly start to close over the next few seasons as Brees gets older and his contract gets heavier to carry.

The time to act is now… Spagnuolo’s desperate need of a bona-fide quality pass rusher in this scheme cannot be put to chance on a 1st round draft choice that may or may not pan out. This team needs a proven player at the position. Someone young and just entering his prime that could be a day one starter and instant impact player on this defense.

For these reasons, I truly believe the Saints will strongly peruse Lions defensive end and crown jewel of the free agency pass rushing market Cliff Avril. Avril will be 27 years old come free agency, he possesses the elite burst and pass rushing skill set this team sorely lacks. His addition would fill a major void in the front line of this defense and allow Spagnuolo to get creative with his stunts and blitz packages.

If Avril’s price turns out to be too steep for the Saints, I still expect them to turn their focus on yet another young promising free agent defensive end. Bengals pass rusher Michael Johnson may not have the production and burst of Avril but he is an unbelievable athlete oozing with potential that many feel would excel in a defensive scheme like Spagnuolo employs. While Johnson may come with more risk than Avril, it’s quite possible he could be the better bargain if he develops under Spagnuolo’s tutelage.

As you can see, these are likely the top two pass rushers that fit the description of what the Saints will be looking for in free agency. I strongly believe that the Saints will land one of these two (maybe both) and fill their glaring need before the draft. Even with the addition of one or both of these players, a pass rusher will still likely be drafted by the Saints in April it just won’t be needed in round 1.

3. Other needs with weak free agency crop:
The bottom line is that the Saints have another major need outside of pass rushers. This season after giving Drew Brees a record breaking 100 million dollar contract extension with over 36 million guaranteed. We have witnessed our franchise quarterback take an unusual amount of hits up to this point. While even with the loss of all-pro guard Carl Nicks this past offseason, the Saints still field one of the league’s top guard tandems in Evans and Grubbs. Center Brian De La Puinte is a serviceable player but the offensive tackle position is in shambles. Left Tackle Jermon Bushrod has regressed every season since taking over for Jamal Brown in 2009, Zach Strief is a solid backup but not a starting caliber NFL tackle and Charles Brown has been a major disappointment thus far since being drafted in the 2nd round a few years back.

The free agent market for offensive tackles has a major gem stone in Dolphins left tackle Jake Long but with a team (Saints) with so much upgrading to do on defense combined with limited cap space, meeting the salary demands of a tackle such as Long simply will not happen. Long will likely resign with Miami leaving this year’s offensive tackle crop weak to say the least. The Saints own Jermon Bushrod could emerge as the best of a weak class putting his own salary demands far too steep for the Saints, especially after a first-hand witness of his play this season.

This leaves only the NFL draft as the logical venue for the Saints to improve a position of need that rivals the addition of a dynamic pass rusher. Drew Brees is this franchise, this team cannot and will not continue to allow him to take the hits he has been taking this season and I look for the Saints brass to solve their dire need of a starting caliber pass rusher via free agency, thus allowing them to finally peruse a quality blind side protector for Drew Brees.

4. NFL Draft, Defensive players going high… quality offensive players falling:
Defense, defense, defense will be the name of the top half of the 1st round of the 2013 NFL draft. With players such as Mingo (LSU), Montgomery (LSU), Jones (Georgia), Hankins (Ohio State), Loutlelei (Utah), Jenkins (Georgia), Werner (Florida State), Te’o (Notre Dame) & Amerson (NC State) all potentially top 10 selections combine with top quarterback prospects like Geno Smith and Matt Barkley in the mix, quality offensive players are bound to fall in this drafts top round.

I’m on record of saying I feel the Saints will make a run during the remainder of this season but will likely not be able to dig them out of the hole they made during the 1st 4 weeks of the season. The Saints will likely end up selecting somewhere in-between picks 12-18 landing them far outside the drafts premium edge rushers and interior defensive lineman. What they will have though is a choice between a few quality offensive tackles that could step in as day one starters and give this offensive line a cornerstone on the edge and Drew Brees some breathing room for once.

Players such as Texas A&M’s tackle tandem Luke Joeckel & Jake Matthews, Alabama’s Barrett Jones & DJ Fluker & Michigan left tackle Taylor Lewan present potential prospects that would give Tom Benson some much needed insurance on the 100 million dollar investment he’s made in his quarterback. We can talk about needs all we want but at the end of the day this is a business and this move makes all the business sense in the world.

Put yourself in Benson’s shoes… No defense, no Super bowl. No Brees, no anything!

WHODAT!!!
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless we sign one of the big name free agents I don't think theirs anyway we don't take a big time DE prospects. Spags entire scheme relies on getting pressure with the front 4. Without that, the entire defense struggles. We need someone, anyone on the front 4 to generate pressure. I'm honestly shocked Junior hasn't gotten more playing time.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Unless we sign one of the big name free agents I don't think theirs anyway we don't take a big time DE prospects. Spags entire scheme relies on getting pressure with the front 4. Without that, the entire defense struggles. We need someone, anyone on the front 4 to generate pressure. I'm honestly shocked Junior hasn't gotten more playing time.


Agreed, I do believe the Saints would draft a DE in round 1 if they are unable to land either Avril or Johnson in free agency but I still absoutly feel Mickey Loomis will land one of them.

I'll say this tho... One pass rusher isn't enough for this squad. Even if we were to land one of these free agent DE's, drafting another is almost a assured.

THe thing is... Offensive tackle is also a big need, If the Saints are looking at the 4th-5th best pass rusher and A&M's Luke Joeckel is still on the board I just can't see passing on a franchise LT.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Unless we sign one of the big name free agents I don't think theirs anyway we don't take a big time DE prospects. Spags entire scheme relies on getting pressure with the front 4. Without that, the entire defense struggles. We need someone, anyone on the front 4 to generate pressure. I'm honestly shocked Junior hasn't gotten more playing time.


Agreed, I do believe the Saints would draft a DE in round 1 if they are unable to land either Avril or Johnson in free agency but I still absoutly feel Mickey Loomis will land one of them.

I'll say this tho... One pass rusher isn't enough for this squad. Even if we were to land one of these free agent DE's, drafting another is almost a assured.

THe thing is... Offensive tackle is also a big need, If the Saints are looking at the 4th-5th best pass rusher and A&M's Luke Joeckel is still on the board I just can't see passing on a franchise LT.

We definitely need an OT BUT its much easier to plug a hole at OT than it is DE. Throw in a couple chip blocks and problem solved, especially in the Saints system. We NEED a dominant DE. Need. Its a must.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We definitely need an OT BUT its much easier to plug a hole at OT than it is DE. Throw in a couple chip blocks and problem solved, especially in the Saints system. We NEED a dominant DE. Need. Its a must


I don't disagree with the must need for a pass rusher... (I think we solve that in FA) but the idea of the whole plug a hole at OT is exactly why were in the position were in right now at the position.

All im saying is that if we add a starting defensive end through FA in either Johnson or Avril and we have a chance at Joeckel in the draft we can't pass up the oppertuniuty to land a premier player at the LT position. Besides Bushrod is a free agent, Strief is a disaster as a starter and Brown is a bust! I think the offensive tackle position is in a much dire situation than given credit for.

Look, if the Saints fail to land a starter at RDE through FA then im all with ya on going after a DE in the 1st round. However, say we land either Johnson or Avril in FA and Joeckel is on the board in round 1 then all bets are off!

PS: I'd actually rather have Joeckel in round 1 and Lavar Edwards in round 3 than say Montgomery in the 1st and some other adverage OT in the 3rd.

Just me...
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing about these so called pass rushers in this draft that bothers me are that there are alot of questions following almost all of them...

Mingo - He's to small right now, he would nned to bulk up to maintain as a DE in the 43 on the NFL level. In other words... work in progress!

Montgomery - Health will be one of many factors with him. His knee still sin't all the way back from injury and he might never regain completely the burst he once had. Watch Sonic on LSU d-line, he always last one off the snap.

Jones - Same with Montgomery, health is major concern. With him its his neck tho and that is a scary risk. Remember Da'Quan Bowers?

Hankins & Loutelei are solid interior players but I feel the Saints will value a upgrade at OT over another interior defensive lineman.



THe only DE prospect in the top 15 picks that I see as an instant impact player and day one starter in the Saints 43 scheme is Werner from Florida State and once the pre draft workouts are finished I feel he'll have a top 10 selection wrapped up!

THis draft is pretty hard to figure... actually the Saints best bet if we fall out of the top 10 picks would likley be to trade back and aquire additional picks and take a pass rusher later in the round like Gholston, Moore or Oakfor.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every prospect has flaws. Whether it be health, size, athletic ability, technique. You'll never find a prospect who's elite in every category. This team has a good history of finding good-great offensive lineman late in drafts, DEs? We can't sign good ones in free agency and we have a miserable history in drafting them as well. We need to take one high. Brees can make the OL look better, NOTHING is going to make a DL look better except better players.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Every prospect has flaws. Whether it be health, size, athletic ability, technique. You'll never find a prospect who's elite in every category. This team has a good history of finding good-great offensive lineman late in drafts, DEs? We can't sign good ones in free agency and we have a miserable history in drafting them as well. We need to take one high. Brees can make the OL look better, NOTHING is going to make a DL look better except better players.


The thing is... how high do you really expect us to be picking?

I see us outside the top 10, I also see Werner, Mingo, Montgomery, Loutelei & Hankins off the board by that time,

One player I would love to see the Saints consider is Demontre Moore from Texas A&M. While he's not ready to be a starting DE in the NFL yet, he reminds me of this years verison of Bruce Irvin. The dude can flat out get to the quarterback. I watched numerous games of the guy and although he's only 6'4" 250 lb he plays alot bigger and hes a nightmare off the edge.

He would be the guy I would want... I could only imagine passing situations with Moore on one side and Wilson on the other while Jordan and Gallette kick inside.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Every prospect has flaws. Whether it be health, size, athletic ability, technique. You'll never find a prospect who's elite in every category. This team has a good history of finding good-great offensive lineman late in drafts, DEs? We can't sign good ones in free agency and we have a miserable history in drafting them as well. We need to take one high. Brees can make the OL look better, NOTHING is going to make a DL look better except better players.


The thing is... how high do you really expect us to be picking?

I see us outside the top 10, I also see Werner, Mingo, Montgomery, Loutelei & Hankins off the board by that time,

One player I would love to see the Saints consider is Demontre Moore from Texas A&M. While he's not ready to be a starting DE in the NFL yet, he reminds me of this years verison of Bruce Irvin. The dude can flat out get to the quarterback. I watched numerous games of the guy and although he's only 6'4" 250 lb he plays alot bigger and hes a nightmare off the edge.

He would be the guy I would want... I could only imagine passing situations with Moore on one side and Wilson on the other while Jordan and Gallette kick inside.

If the defense continues to play the way its been playing? We'll be in the top 10.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the defense continues to play the way its been playing? We'll be in the top 10


Tru Dat!
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we do go DE in round 1 it's Werner or bust for me! Even if we have to trade up to secure him.

My Opinion, these are the players I'd like to see in the black and gold if the Saints draft their positios in round 1...

DE - Bjeorn Werner, Florida State
DT - Jonathan Jenkins, Georgia
LB - CJ Mosley, Alabama
CB - Xavier RHodes, Florida State
FS - Matt Elam, Florida

OT - Jake Matthews, Texas A&M
OG - Chance Warmack, Alabama
OC - Barrett Jones, Alabama
WR - Terrence Williams, Baylor
TE - None
RB - None
FB - None
QB - Tyler Wilson, Arkansas

Of all the choices in this draft, those are my favs for each position.
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Canadian Saint


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll actually go out on a limb and say we don't draft a defensive player in the first.


I know blasphemy! But that is my guess. My justification is the following.

Our window to win is Brees' prime. For us to be in a good position to win, we have to put Brees in a good position to win. We have the RBs. We have the WRs(when Toon plays), we have the interior O-line. What we're missing is the OTs. When Ingram walked around Bushrod and hit Brees in the helmet, I cringed. We're always going to be an offense first team, and to do that we need Brees healthy.

My second point is, has anyone looked at a.) how many 1st rounds we've recent spent on D and b.) how they have turned out?

Ellis, Jenkins, Robinson, Jordan and I guess Hicks recently. That's a HUGE investment in terms of draft choices. How have they turned out? Ellis is having a tough time doing anything. Jenkins looks like a CFL player. Robinson is doing ok but has brain farts. Jordan is a good run defender, but in terms of pass rush offers very little. If we go on a run and finish 8-8 or 9-7, do we really want to take a DE/DT and hope that their pass rushing ability translates(or even hope that they develop one?)

Maybe it's time we tried an alternative route. Two names I'll bring up are Michael Johnson and Cliff Avril. Both of those guys have chances to hit free agency, and both of those guys are actually pass rushers who are proven in this league.

By my count, we have potentially(caphits in parenthesis) Ellis(7.3) + Bushrod (6.75) and Smith(5.3) coming off the books next season. Now Brees' salary does go up and I am sure others do aswell, but between those 3, it's nearly 20M we can clear. Why not drop some money on a guy like Michael Johnson or Avril, and actually add some legitimate pass rush to the team.

Spend the 1st on an OT, and let Brown and new OT protect Brees, while we add to the defensive side of the ball. IF we can improve protection while improving our pass rush, it'd be killing two birds with one stone. I think the front office will consider this as we've made a very significant investment on the D through draft picks, maybe it's time for a different route.

I hear a guys like Joeckel, Matthews and Lewan are pretty good LT prospects.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You make alot of valid points CS...

I actually believe that if Joeckel is on the board when we pick it will be extremly hard for Payton and Loomis to pass on. He is a guy who has the potential to be a franchise LT in this leauge and when you have a 100 million dollar QB reguardless of whats going on with the defense, protecting him will ALWAYS be top priority.

Now, while Matthews, Lewan & Fisher project as solid offensive tackles they just arent in Joeckel's class in terms of potential as a blind side protector.

How about this little nugget...

Let's just say we end up with the 12th pick. All the premier defensive ends/tackles as well as Joeckel are off the board. We cannot find a trade partner to move down.

THis team is in a rare position with a fairly high selection, the whole object of sustained success in this league is the continueazation of great quarterback play. With the draft always being considered building for the future instead of just plugging holes for the present and the combination of the new rookie wage scale allowing teams to draft rookies without high salaries...

At what point do you "as a franchise" consider a player like Arkansas quarterback Tyler Wilson?

Crazy?

Not so sure... Wilson is actually a perfect fit in Paytons scheme. He's a big strong armed accurate passer who stands tall in the pocket. He has suprising mobility and a great knowledge of the game. He's a high character guy with a great work ethic.

Drew Brees will be 34 years old entering the 2nd year of a 100 million dollar quarterback. At what point do we start planning for the future ans sustained success of this franchise?

If the draft is truly about looking and building towards the future than I don't see how Wilson isnt at least seriously considered.

The Steelers are the model for this... it's how they remain one of the best ran franchises in the leauge, because they always keep an eye towards the future reguardless of the present short comings.

What do you think?
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lifeinthaboot


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top reason why we won't draft an Pass-Rusher: We like no pass rush... Nuff said?

I be forgetting to check in the forum. BB use to talk about Worm but you never posted. He is gone and suddenly you comeback posting but he goes MIA (BB should be around 70, so he is probably dead Wink). Nice read Cool
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lifeinthaboot wrote:
Top reason why we won't draft an Pass-Rusher: We like no pass rush... Nuff said?

I be forgetting to check in the forum. BB use to talk about Worm but you never posted. He is gone and suddenly you comeback posting but he goes MIA (BB should be around 70, so he is probably dead Wink). Nice read Cool


Tru Dat... miss ol Bagin!
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