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Patriots Draft Prospects 2013
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Troy Brown


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 24846
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
m haynes wrote:
I can't see the Pats not picking a O tackle in the 1st. I worry every play that Vollmer will go down and we have nothing behind our two tackles. I would love to see Joeckel or Mathews. I see Mathews where we might pick next year. They say he can be moved to the left side. I also love the family tree thing !!!


I don't foresee them taking a RT in the 1st round and Solder has been solid (or better) at LT.

If they take an OL early, I hope it's an interior guy for either RG or C. But I'd still prefer an all defense draft.


Yeah, I agree. Only offensive piece worth taking high would be an interior linemen and even then, it isn't a massive need like we once thought it was.

I agree with an all defense draft but then I wonder if it'd even matter. We keep throwing guys at the secondary and only one has played to his draft position. I don't know what to think anymore when it comes to our defense. I will say that I'm eating all of my words on Nink. He needs to stay a Patriot as long as possible, you just don't find that many "steady" guys hanging around anymore.
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Sciz


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 15917
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the topic of free agents, how much money would it cost to get Greg Jennings? Can't be a whole lot more than what Welker would get, right?
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25720
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciz wrote:
On the topic of free agents, how much money would it cost to get Greg Jennings? Can't be a whole lot more than what Welker would get, right?


All things considered, I'd prefer Welker. That's not to say Jennings isn't a great player, perhaps a better one, but I'd still take Welker.
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roachkiller


Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 1233
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you guys feel about Louis Nix from ND? Hes got a great upside in the 3-4 and could eventually replace Wilfork.
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Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roachkiller wrote:
How do you guys feel about Louis Nix from ND? Hes got a great upside in the 3-4 and could eventually replace Wilfork.

I've been interested in him since I saw the ND-Oklahoma game. Definitely a nose tackle, but he has some skills a penetrator. He'll go too high for the Pats, I think, even with his temporary benching this year.
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trivium2009


Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 472
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally love the idea of drafting Xavier Rhodes mainly because e is a hard nosed CB who is not afraid to stuff at the line and isn't going to shy away from tackles.
My personal top 10 draft prospects......
Xavier Rhodes, CB Florida St.
Terrance Williams, WR Baylor
Robert Lester, SS Alabama
Barrett Jones, G Alabama
Chance Warmock, G Alabama
Johnathon Cooper, G North Carolina
Kawann Short, DT Purdue
Sam Montgomery, DE, LSU
Alex Okafor, DE Texas
William Gholston, DE Michigan St.
..............Taylor Lewan, OT Michigan This is only if we loose Vollmer
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 8649
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
roachkiller wrote:
How do you guys feel about Louis Nix from ND? Hes got a great upside in the 3-4 and could eventually replace Wilfork.

I've been interested in him since I saw the ND-Oklahoma game. Definitely a nose tackle, but he has some skills a penetrator. He'll go too high for the Pats, I think, even with his temporary benching this year.


If he declares though, that makes four big interior defenders in Johnathan Hankins, Star Lotulelei and John Jenkins likely to go in the first round. I wouldn't say Nix necessarily falls out of reach unless he does so whilst pushing one of those guys in sight.
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TKOhitter8737


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 277
Location: northeast
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Sciz wrote:
On the topic of free agents, how much money would it cost to get Greg Jennings? Can't be a whole lot more than what Welker would get, right?


All things considered, I'd prefer Welker. That's not to say Jennings isn't a great player, perhaps a better one, but I'd still take Welker.


I would rather have Jennings, but his health is a huge concern
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So - how should use our precious top 3 picks? Secondary has seen improvement, do we hit that position again in the draft? Vollmer and Welker need replacements? Re-inforce an over achieving O-line? More pass-rushing? Deep-threats?
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ChazStandard


Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love Jennings as a player...but all those injuries, seems like another FA bust waiting to happen. If we're letting Welker go and going after an FA to replace him, better to spend a bit more on Bowe who's younger, fitter, and (optimistically) might want to play with a good QB enough to not ask for mega-huge money.

The draft should be mostly D, as has been said. a C/G and an interior guy to play next to Wilfork are priorities 1/2 for me. Talib/Dennard/McCourty/Wilson should be talented enough to forgo spending another early pick on a DB...and if they're not what's throwing more picks at the problem going to solve?

There comes a point where you have to just accept a flaw and work around it...and that means more interior rush.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldfishwars wrote:
Secondary has seen improvement


???

The secondary was appalling vs. the Bills and Colts. Sure, they looked "better" vs. the Jets insofar as they gave up "only" 301 yards and "only" a 72.2% completion percentage to one of the worst QB's in the NFL - which was, as you said, an improvement over the first game vs. the Jets.

They have one decent safety (McCourty) and one decent under-contract CB (Dennard). Talib hasn't shown anything worth re-signing - though he might come along a bit as he settles in. Arrington is likely gone. Dowling was riding the pine before his injury so can't count on him.

They need to invest heavily in the secondary with free agents and draft picks. Chung and Arrington are likely gone. Ebner, Gregory, Dowling, Cole, Wilson are all unimpressive or outright bad.
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Nihc


Joined: 12 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
goldfishwars wrote:
Secondary has seen improvement


???

The secondary was appalling vs. the Bills and Colts. Sure, they looked "better" vs. the Jets insofar as they gave up "only" 301 yards and "only" a 72.2% completion percentage to one of the worst QB's in the NFL - which was, as you said, an improvement over the first game vs. the Jets.

They have one decent safety (McCourty) and one decent under-contract CB (Dennard). Talib hasn't shown anything worth re-signing - though he might come along a bit as he settles in. Arrington is likely gone. Dowling was riding the pine before his injury so can't count on him.

They need to invest heavily in the secondary with free agents and draft picks. Chung and Arrington are likely gone. Ebner, Gregory, Dowling, Cole, Wilson are all unimpressive or outright bad.


They played extremely well against the Jets. Sanchez must have thrown 7 screens and short passes out of 10 throws the first half. The Pats let the Jets have those short throws. He also had 110 yards in the forth quarter.
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tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 5506
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
goldfishwars wrote:
Secondary has seen improvement


???

The secondary was appalling vs. the Bills and Colts. Sure, they looked "better" vs. the Jets insofar as they gave up "only" 301 yards and "only" a 72.2% completion percentage to one of the worst QB's in the NFL - which was, as you said, an improvement over the first game vs. the Jets.

They have one decent safety (McCourty) and one decent under-contract CB (Dennard). Talib hasn't shown anything worth re-signing - though he might come along a bit as he settles in. Arrington is likely gone. Dowling was riding the pine before his injury so can't count on him.

They need to invest heavily in the secondary with free agents and draft picks. Chung and Arrington are likely gone. Ebner, Gregory, Dowling, Cole, Wilson are all unimpressive or outright bad.

Garbage time time stats are irrelevant. Yards are also irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you get yards if you throw 3 interceptions and the secondary forces an additional fumble or two.

Talib hasnt' shown anything worth resigning? Really? I'm not saying we're going to sign him like he's some superstar big name guy like Tillman, but come on. He is way better than Arrington and way better than anyone else we've tried to bring in/develop/draft besides McCourty.

That being said, I think we need to figure out a way to get another good cover safety. Maybe that's just praying we can steal away Reed, but we definitely need to solidify the back end. Dowling had been supplanted by Arrington so I think that speaks for itself which is a big disappointment.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:

Garbage time time stats are irrelevant. Yards are also irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you get yards if you throw 3 interceptions and the secondary forces an additional fumble or two.


Yards aren't irrelevant when they're indicative of the quality of the defense. You think allowing 12.2 yards per completion is irrelevant? Sure, you can argue that if they don't end in points, the yards are wasted (i.e. irrelevant). However, those yards still tell a story which is:

The secondary is awful and can't get off the field without the opposing team turning the ball over. Think that's not important as long as you're holding the opponent to field goals? How about continually losing the field position battle because you're letting the other team go 50-60 yards? How about the impact of long drives in keeping the Pats own offense off the field? How about the fact that good teams (the ones the Pats will face in a few weeks and in the playoffs) often are more careful with the ball than the teams that the Pats feast on (in regard to turnovers).

Yards get used incorrectly by people, that doesn't make them irrelevant. Look at the Pats playoff runs lately. They haven't gotten a lot of takeaways and their porous secondary has collapsed in the late stages of many games (almost losing the AFCCG, losing the Super Bowl).

Recovering fumbles is largely luck. We've seen that in both Super Bowls and numerous big games. Good QB's tend not to turn the ball over as much as garbage like Sanchez and Fitzpatrick.

Playing bad teams, you might be able to give up 400 yards and hold the opponent to 25 points (and maybe that's good enough to win). Playing good teams, giving up 400-500 yards is a recipe for a loss.


Quote:
Talib hasnt' shown anything worth resigning? Really? I'm not saying we're going to sign him like he's some superstar big name guy like Tillman, but come on. He is way better than Arrington and way better than anyone else we've tried to bring in/develop/draft besides McCourty.


Talib looked bad vs. Indianapolis and it's tough to gauge against the Jets given their awful WR corps. I will say though that Arrington played well vs Buffalo and was similarly tough to evaluate in the Jets game.

I haven't seen anything to indicate he's actually an improvement or worth re-signing given that he might get a decent offer elsewhere.

Saying he is "way better than anyone else we've tried to bring in" is ridiculous. Hopefully you just mean the current crop of CB's. Even then, he's not "way better" than Dennard.

People want Talib to be good. People think Talib is good because of his play in Tampa Bay. That doesn't mean that the two games he has played have shown him to be a good fit for the team. I admitted that there is time for him to show he belongs, but as of now, calling him a big upgrade over Arrington is a bit much.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Terrence Williams
2. Cordarelle patterson
3. Justin Hunter
4. nobody else
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