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Michael Vick beyond the 2012 season
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blahman88 wrote:
Vick is a starting calibre QB in the league, but he's in the 20's of QB, we can improve, a lot.


Vick may be in the 20s if he's playing in a traditional passing attack with a poor Oline.

But with a solid Oline and an offense designed around his abilities, he could lead a top 3-5 offense.

And again people keep talking about Vick's age but ignore that he's unique from any other dual threat QB because of how athletic he was coming into the league

Vick with two lost steps is not the same thing as say a Russell Wilson with two lost steps.

Vick with two lost steps is still as fast as almost every other dual threat QB in history
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ninjapirate


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Blahman88 wrote:
Vick is a starting calibre QB in the league, but he's in the 20's of QB, we can improve, a lot.


Vick may be in the 20s if he's playing in a traditional passing attack with a poor Oline.

But with a solid Oline and an offense designed around his abilities, he could lead a top 3-5 offense.

And again people keep talking about Vick's age but ignore that he's unique from any other dual threat QB because of how athletic he was coming into the league

Vick with two lost steps is not the same thing as say a Russell Wilson with two lost steps.

Vick with two lost steps is still as fast as almost every other dual threat QB in history


You want us to run an offense based on michael vick turning the ball over? that is the only ability he is good at.
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PhiCelek87


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SiLo wrote:
No one really knows what Vick has left. It's a coin toss without beig able to step on a field.


I do - not much.
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PhiCelek87


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagles_808 wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2107/michael-vick
Quote:
According to CBS, new Eagles coach Chip Kelly "likes the idea" of keeping Michael Vick at a reduced salary, but "genuinely doesn't know" what he has in him.
Quote:
Per a "person familiar with the Eagles' thinking," Kelly believes Vick remains "more than a viable thrower," but is spooked by his injury history and turnover rate. All of this is predictable, but what isn't is Vick's amenability to a pay-cut. The Eagles have cap space to spare, but the movement to keep Vick won't get far if he's unwilling to take a dramatic reduction in his $15.5 million salary.
Really? Laughing


CBS has been terrible throughout this whole coaching process, so I take everything they say with a gigantic grain of salt...

However, if Chip pulls the trigger on this and keeps this guy around, I am jumping ship off his bandwagon. It shows on multiple levels that he lacks: (1) the modesty to admit he cannot correct a declining talent; (2) the ability to evaluate a player for what he is; and (3) among other things, the ability to exercise foresight in what is best for the franchise...
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Dr. Philly


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought that they laid it out for Chip.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhiCelek87 wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2107/michael-vick
Quote:
According to CBS, new Eagles coach Chip Kelly "likes the idea" of keeping Michael Vick at a reduced salary, but "genuinely doesn't know" what he has in him.
Quote:
Per a "person familiar with the Eagles' thinking," Kelly believes Vick remains "more than a viable thrower," but is spooked by his injury history and turnover rate. All of this is predictable, but what isn't is Vick's amenability to a pay-cut. The Eagles have cap space to spare, but the movement to keep Vick won't get far if he's unwilling to take a dramatic reduction in his $15.5 million salary.
Really? Laughing


CBS has been terrible throughout this whole coaching process, so I take everything they say with a gigantic grain of salt...

However, if Chip pulls the trigger on this and keeps this guy around, I am jumping ship off his bandwagon. It shows on multiple levels that he lacks: (1) the modesty to admit he cannot correct a declining talent; (2) the ability to evaluate a player for what he is; and (3) among other things, the ability to exercise foresight in what is best for the franchise...


I laughed.

1) He wouldn't be correcting a declining talent. He would be utilizing that talent in the best possible system to harness said talent.

2) He has already evaluated and stated Vick turns the ball over way too much and doesn't get it out quickly enough. Clearly he knows that Vick would be asked to do a lot less in terms of reading a defense if he brought in his Oregon offense. Why else would he be potentially looking at Dennis Dixon? Dixon is a far inferior passer and not even as good a runner as Vick.

3) This would be a relevant point if it mattered. The Eagles are going to suck with Foles at the helm to start this season. It makes no difference if he starts from day one or after week 7 if the Vick experiment fails.
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Dr. Philly


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though I don't agree with Blick on the overall Vick issue, he does have a point.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhiCelek87 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
PhiCelek87 wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
It has been forever since I have posted in this forum but some of the ignorance is just astounding.

I've never been the biggest Mike Vick fan but if you don't think he is a quality NFL starting QB you are retarded.

No, he can't read a defense particularly great and has poor pocket presence at times. But the fact people are nailing him to the wall for this past season is a joke. No QB in the NFL could've done anything with what we put forth as far as an o-line. Just pathetic all-around. Combine that a defense that couldn't get a stop and running an offense that caters to none of Vick's strengths and you have a recipe for failure. Andy Reid is a stubborn mule. Vick had no business dropping back and passing 60 times in game. That is just preposterous, Vick will never be your traditional drop-back QB nor should he be.

Chip Kelly can bring an offense to the table that Vick could excel in. Look at what Shanny did for RG3. Dumbed down all the reads and let him use his athleticism. Are people on here so big-headed that they don't think Vick can run an offense similar to that? You are all sold on Nick Foles? Really?

Also, I'm tired of the "well Vick will get injured". He was the toughest guy in an Eagles jersey this season. And hell, he lasted a lot longer than Foles did playing QB behind that crock of crap of an o-line.

Personally, I don't care for Vick and I hate his contract like everyone else but I would love to see him get the starting job this season.

What do we have to lose?

If he bombs, you cut ties with him and move on with Foles. Why not see what a new HC can do with him in the right offense? If people think the Eagles are going to magically become a winning team with Foles at the helm this year.... wow, you are sadly mistaken.


The difference with RG3 and Vick is that Vick will be 33 years old for 2013. He's not the spring chicken RG3 is.

And blaming him for 2012 may be one thing, but how do you account for his horrible 2011 season? He got his huge deal, and has failed to produce adequate numbers and wins since then (with a healthy O-line in 2011 and a dominant RB in Shady that year).

But again, even though I want no part of him moving forward, I have conceded in the past that I have no clue what Chip really thinks. Maybe we keep him on a restructured deal, but I won't be happy about it.


RG3 is light year's beyond Vick as a passer...


In what way?

Please tell.

Accuracy wise he is better but outside of that he has proven nothing as a passer.


Griffin's one season is better than any single season in Vick's entire career.


Put RG3 in as the Eagles QB last year and I guarantee you he doesn't fair nearly as well.
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birdman0069


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
PhiCelek87 wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2107/michael-vick
Quote:
According to CBS, new Eagles coach Chip Kelly "likes the idea" of keeping Michael Vick at a reduced salary, but "genuinely doesn't know" what he has in him.
Quote:
Per a "person familiar with the Eagles' thinking," Kelly believes Vick remains "more than a viable thrower," but is spooked by his injury history and turnover rate. All of this is predictable, but what isn't is Vick's amenability to a pay-cut. The Eagles have cap space to spare, but the movement to keep Vick won't get far if he's unwilling to take a dramatic reduction in his $15.5 million salary.
Really? Laughing


CBS has been terrible throughout this whole coaching process, so I take everything they say with a gigantic grain of salt...

However, if Chip pulls the trigger on this and keeps this guy around, I am jumping ship off his bandwagon. It shows on multiple levels that he lacks: (1) the modesty to admit he cannot correct a declining talent; (2) the ability to evaluate a player for what he is; and (3) among other things, the ability to exercise foresight in what is best for the franchise...


I laughed.

1) He wouldn't be correcting a declining talent. He would be utilizing that talent in the best possible system to harness said talent.

2) He has already evaluated and stated Vick turns the ball over way too much and doesn't get it out quickly enough. Clearly he knows that Vick would be asked to do a lot less in terms of reading a defense if he brought in his Oregon offense. Why else would he be potentially looking at Dennis Dixon? Dixon is a far inferior passer and not even as good a runner as Vick.

3) This would be a relevant point if it mattered. The Eagles are going to suck with Foles at the helm to start this season. It makes no difference if he starts from day one or after week 7 if the Vick experiment fails.


The third point is completely off base. A young QB needs playing time to develop. If they think, for one second, Foles may be the man, he has to start and take his lumps. We aren't going to win a lot games regardless of who the QB is but these are valuable games for the young players on this team.
In case no one noticed, the Vick experiment has failed. It failed here and it failed in Atlanta. No matter how much you polish his game you will never fix his head and that is the real problem.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

birdman0069 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
PhiCelek87 wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2107/michael-vick
Quote:
According to CBS, new Eagles coach Chip Kelly "likes the idea" of keeping Michael Vick at a reduced salary, but "genuinely doesn't know" what he has in him.
Quote:
Per a "person familiar with the Eagles' thinking," Kelly believes Vick remains "more than a viable thrower," but is spooked by his injury history and turnover rate. All of this is predictable, but what isn't is Vick's amenability to a pay-cut. The Eagles have cap space to spare, but the movement to keep Vick won't get far if he's unwilling to take a dramatic reduction in his $15.5 million salary.
Really? Laughing


CBS has been terrible throughout this whole coaching process, so I take everything they say with a gigantic grain of salt...

However, if Chip pulls the trigger on this and keeps this guy around, I am jumping ship off his bandwagon. It shows on multiple levels that he lacks: (1) the modesty to admit he cannot correct a declining talent; (2) the ability to evaluate a player for what he is; and (3) among other things, the ability to exercise foresight in what is best for the franchise...


I laughed.

1) He wouldn't be correcting a declining talent. He would be utilizing that talent in the best possible system to harness said talent.

2) He has already evaluated and stated Vick turns the ball over way too much and doesn't get it out quickly enough. Clearly he knows that Vick would be asked to do a lot less in terms of reading a defense if he brought in his Oregon offense. Why else would he be potentially looking at Dennis Dixon? Dixon is a far inferior passer and not even as good a runner as Vick.

3) This would be a relevant point if it mattered. The Eagles are going to suck with Foles at the helm to start this season. It makes no difference if he starts from day one or after week 7 if the Vick experiment fails.


The third point is completely off base. A young QB needs playing time to develop. If they think, for one second, Foles may be the man, he has to start and take his lumps. We aren't going to win a lot games regardless of who the QB is but these are valuable games for the young players on this team.
In case no one noticed, the Vick experiment has failed. It failed here and it failed in Atlanta. No matter how much you polish his game you will never fix his head and that is the real problem.


lol, it failed in Atlanta because he went to prison. But don't be fooled, he as a completely unpolished QB took the Falcons to a NFC Championship. He is a far better player now than he was then. Mentally while maybe not the most intelligent, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a greater competitor than Vick. You can call him an idiot but he leaves it all on the field. You can't teach that either.

Nothing about the third point is off base. We've seen numerous QBs ride the pine for over a year before coming in. Hell, there was one in the SB this year.
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Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.

Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this guy is still on the team Question whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhattt gtfo..
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birdman0069


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
PhiCelek87 wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2107/michael-vick
Quote:
According to CBS, new Eagles coach Chip Kelly "likes the idea" of keeping Michael Vick at a reduced salary, but "genuinely doesn't know" what he has in him.
Quote:
Per a "person familiar with the Eagles' thinking," Kelly believes Vick remains "more than a viable thrower," but is spooked by his injury history and turnover rate. All of this is predictable, but what isn't is Vick's amenability to a pay-cut. The Eagles have cap space to spare, but the movement to keep Vick won't get far if he's unwilling to take a dramatic reduction in his $15.5 million salary.
Really? Laughing


CBS has been terrible throughout this whole coaching process, so I take everything they say with a gigantic grain of salt...

However, if Chip pulls the trigger on this and keeps this guy around, I am jumping ship off his bandwagon. It shows on multiple levels that he lacks: (1) the modesty to admit he cannot correct a declining talent; (2) the ability to evaluate a player for what he is; and (3) among other things, the ability to exercise foresight in what is best for the franchise...


I laughed.

1) He wouldn't be correcting a declining talent. He would be utilizing that talent in the best possible system to harness said talent.

2) He has already evaluated and stated Vick turns the ball over way too much and doesn't get it out quickly enough. Clearly he knows that Vick would be asked to do a lot less in terms of reading a defense if he brought in his Oregon offense. Why else would he be potentially looking at Dennis Dixon? Dixon is a far inferior passer and not even as good a runner as Vick.

3) This would be a relevant point if it mattered. The Eagles are going to suck with Foles at the helm to start this season. It makes no difference if he starts from day one or after week 7 if the Vick experiment fails.


The third point is completely off base. A young QB needs playing time to develop. If they think, for one second, Foles may be the man, he has to start and take his lumps. We aren't going to win a lot games regardless of who the QB is but these are valuable games for the young players on this team.
In case no one noticed, the Vick experiment has failed. It failed here and it failed in Atlanta. No matter how much you polish his game you will never fix his head and that is the real problem.


lol, it failed in Atlanta because he went to prison. But don't be fooled, he as a completely unpolished QB took the Falcons to a NFC Championship. He is a far better player now than he was then. Mentally while maybe not the most intelligent, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a greater competitor than Vick. You can call him an idiot but he leaves it all on the field. You can't teach that either.

Nothing about the third point is off base. We've seen numerous QBs ride the pine for over a year before coming in. Hell, there was one in the SB this year.


So your a fan of the guy or his agent. It still doesn't change that fact that through his entire career he has been average to below average. You people cling to one good season. Vick averages a turn over a game. No one has fixed him, no one will. Andy was one one the best coaches in the entire world in terms of cultivating a QB's talent and he couldn't fix Vick.
You can hold tight to your belief that Vick is still a starting caliber QB. It doesn't make you right and it won't get Vick a starting job next season. The Eagles will move him for a 5th or 6th round pick and when that happens hopefully every Vick appolegist will stop this nonsense.
He is what his numbers say he is. An extremely average QB.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

birdman0069 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
PhiCelek87 wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2107/michael-vick
Quote:
According to CBS, new Eagles coach Chip Kelly "likes the idea" of keeping Michael Vick at a reduced salary, but "genuinely doesn't know" what he has in him.
Quote:
Per a "person familiar with the Eagles' thinking," Kelly believes Vick remains "more than a viable thrower," but is spooked by his injury history and turnover rate. All of this is predictable, but what isn't is Vick's amenability to a pay-cut. The Eagles have cap space to spare, but the movement to keep Vick won't get far if he's unwilling to take a dramatic reduction in his $15.5 million salary.
Really? Laughing


CBS has been terrible throughout this whole coaching process, so I take everything they say with a gigantic grain of salt...

However, if Chip pulls the trigger on this and keeps this guy around, I am jumping ship off his bandwagon. It shows on multiple levels that he lacks: (1) the modesty to admit he cannot correct a declining talent; (2) the ability to evaluate a player for what he is; and (3) among other things, the ability to exercise foresight in what is best for the franchise...


I laughed.

1) He wouldn't be correcting a declining talent. He would be utilizing that talent in the best possible system to harness said talent.

2) He has already evaluated and stated Vick turns the ball over way too much and doesn't get it out quickly enough. Clearly he knows that Vick would be asked to do a lot less in terms of reading a defense if he brought in his Oregon offense. Why else would he be potentially looking at Dennis Dixon? Dixon is a far inferior passer and not even as good a runner as Vick.

3) This would be a relevant point if it mattered. The Eagles are going to suck with Foles at the helm to start this season. It makes no difference if he starts from day one or after week 7 if the Vick experiment fails.


The third point is completely off base. A young QB needs playing time to develop. If they think, for one second, Foles may be the man, he has to start and take his lumps. We aren't going to win a lot games regardless of who the QB is but these are valuable games for the young players on this team.
In case no one noticed, the Vick experiment has failed. It failed here and it failed in Atlanta. No matter how much you polish his game you will never fix his head and that is the real problem.


lol, it failed in Atlanta because he went to prison. But don't be fooled, he as a completely unpolished QB took the Falcons to a NFC Championship. He is a far better player now than he was then. Mentally while maybe not the most intelligent, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a greater competitor than Vick. You can call him an idiot but he leaves it all on the field. You can't teach that either.

Nothing about the third point is off base. We've seen numerous QBs ride the pine for over a year before coming in. Hell, there was one in the SB this year.


So your a fan of the guy or his agent. It still doesn't change that fact that through his entire career he has been average to below average. You people cling to one good season. Vick averages a turn over a game. No one has fixed him, no one will. Andy was one one the best coaches in the entire world in terms of cultivating a QB's talent and he couldn't fix Vick.
You can hold tight to your belief that Vick is still a starting caliber QB. It doesn't make you right and it won't get Vick a starting job next season. The Eagles will move him for a 5th or 6th round pick and when that happens hopefully every Vick appolegist will stop this nonsense.
He is what his numbers say he is. An extremely average QB.


Actually I really have no love for Mike Vick whatsoever. I do however, think he is far and away our best option at QB. Andy Reid was also one of the most stubborn HCs in the NFL. Anyone that has Mike Vick throw 60 times a game is an idiot. You just don't do that when it isn't his strength, I don't know what is so hard to understand about this.

Also, if you don't think Vick is a starting caliber QB, you're an idiot. I'm sorry but it is true. There are plenty of teams that would gladly utilize him as a starter. I'm not fixed in my beliefs that we will keep him, I'm just saying logically it is far and away the best option if we want to be competitive.

You know what is a good way to limit turn overs? Have him play to his strengths. His QB rating was better all 3 years with the Eagles (even this last year in the most horrendous of circumstances). Contrary to most of your stubborn views he has improved. His completion percentage is way up and he still a dynamic runner. Mike Vick in an offense in which he only has two worry about 2 or 3 routes would be an exceptional weapon.
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Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.

Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vick critics want to call anyone who supports Vick as unobjective but the biggest critics are far more unobjective because they go to the extreme and say that Vick isn't a starting caliber QB in the league despite the woeful position in the league at one position

There was even an absurd article a few months ago debating if Vick was done completely in the NFL, as in he couldn't even be good enough to be a backup

The agenda against Vick is kind of humorous for instance the stat about him never playing 16 games. First of all that's a lie. He played all 16 games in 2006, and in 2004 the only reason he didn't play 16 was because the Falcons had a BYE WEEK and they rested him for a game. And in 2002, and 2005, the seasons where he got hurt? HE missed ONE GAME a piece in those seasons

And yes he had the rib injuries in 2010 and 2011, but he also got a kevlar vest which should take away from the reoccurence of that injury

And a concussion can happen to anybody but even more precautions can be made for that with helmet upgrades as well


And then there is always the talk about Vick's age. NEVER mind the fact that Tony Romo is older than Vick and Eli is only 6 months younger, etc

And if Vick is ancient my goodness what are Brady, Manning, etc

But oh Vick runs. Sure he runs but he also ran a 4.3 coming into the league which means at 35, 36, or even 37 if he took care of himself he could still run a 4.5 40 which is still as fast as any QB in the league not named RGIII

Vick with 2-3 lost steps is not like the average dual threat QB who started with a 4.5 or 4.6 40 yard dash
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is Vick isn't a dual threat QB. Teams want him to throw the Ball. Between his Int's, batted passes and putting the ball on the ground, teams realize all they have to do is defend the 18-19 passes he can complete. In terms of pure passing QB's, Vick scares no one and there isn't a coach alive that can change that.
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