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Raiders vs. Falcons Week 6 GDT
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:

Here we go again. Head coach wants to run a scheme in his tenure he, shouldn't wait to start it cause the players he inherited cant run it. If they can't do it they will go soon enough. It's not like our offense was good enough to carry us to the playoffs.


1985 just called, they want their coaching paradigm back. In TODAY'S NFL coaches must reinvent themselves in the mold of their players if they wish to remain relevant or stick around long enough to implement their system. HueJax was not a great playcaller, however, one of the most impactful things that he did was ask DMC what were his favorite plays and implement them immediately.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
dante9876 wrote:

Here we go again. Head coach wants to run a scheme in his tenure he, shouldn't wait to start it cause the players he inherited cant run it. If they can't do it they will go soon enough. It's not like our offense was good enough to carry us to the playoffs.


1985 just called, they want their coaching paradigm back. In TODAY'S NFL coaches must reinvent themselves in the mold of their players if they wish to remain relevant or stick around long enough to implement their system. HueJax was not a great playcaller, however, one of the most impactful things that he did was ask DMC what were his favorite plays and implement them immediately.



Maybe explains why Hugh is a assistant special teams coach now.
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Matt Flynn is going to do a good job. He has a poise about him and that's good to see. I am ecstatic to welcome him into the Raider Nation.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 20470
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
dante9876 wrote:

Here we go again. Head coach wants to run a scheme in his tenure he, shouldn't wait to start it cause the players he inherited cant run it. If they can't do it they will go soon enough. It's not like our offense was good enough to carry us to the playoffs.


1985 just called, they want their coaching paradigm back. In TODAY'S NFL coaches must reinvent themselves in the mold of their players if they wish to remain relevant or stick around long enough to implement their system. HueJax was not a great playcaller, however, one of the most impactful things that he did was ask DMC what were his favorite plays and implement them immediately.


Again did Joe Philibin change his system. No he did not he came in and with his GM that starting getting rid off and bringing in guys to run it. We havent had the chance to do that yet cause of the situation Reggie walked into. Also please tell me all these coaches who are changing schemes to fit there players. Sure you add wrinkles here and there to try to exploit your players strengths but aint no successful head coach revamping what they want to do cause the roster he inherited cant get it done.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
dante9876 wrote:

Here we go again. Head coach wants to run a scheme in his tenure he, shouldn't wait to start it cause the players he inherited cant run it. If they can't do it they will go soon enough. It's not like our offense was good enough to carry us to the playoffs.


1985 just called, they want their coaching paradigm back. In TODAY'S NFL coaches must reinvent themselves in the mold of their players if they wish to remain relevant or stick around long enough to implement their system. HueJax was not a great playcaller, however, one of the most impactful things that he did was ask DMC what were his favorite plays and implement them immediately.



Maybe explains why Hugh is a assistant special teams coach now.


I can't distinguish whether we are in disagreement of not. I don't think HueJax was a GREAT coach but at LEAST he was smart enough to implement the things that the employees felt would make them more efficient. Something that cannot be said of Knapp at this point.
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oak42069


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
One thing I havent seen anyone talk about yet, the timeout we used on our last drive. We were close to the endzone and called a TO with like 44 seconds left. If we didnt use it, and still scored. ATL would have no time left to kick the FG. Thoughts?


I'm still lost why they didn't let Seabass kick what looked like a 59 yard FG on the first drive.


probably jus based off of field position, get them pinned back
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
dante9876 wrote:

Here we go again. Head coach wants to run a scheme in his tenure he, shouldn't wait to start it cause the players he inherited cant run it. If they can't do it they will go soon enough. It's not like our offense was good enough to carry us to the playoffs.


1985 just called, they want their coaching paradigm back. In TODAY'S NFL coaches must reinvent themselves in the mold of their players if they wish to remain relevant or stick around long enough to implement their system. HueJax was not a great playcaller, however, one of the most impactful things that he did was ask DMC what were his favorite plays and implement them immediately.



Maybe explains why Hugh is a assistant special teams coach now.


I can't distinguish whether we are in disagreement of not. I don't think HueJax was a GREAT coach but at LEAST he was smart enough to implement the things that the employees felt would make them more efficient. Something that cannot be said of Knapp at this point.




What organisation lets one employee dictate what they do? No successful ones I'd say. Texans didn't ask foster what scheme he'd like to play in, when he's gone they won't ask the next one either. I doubt Philbin asked Reggie bush to scuplt how the offesnive was going to play. You consider what Hue did as being smart, I'd disagree. He showed he was out of his depth when he let the tail wag the dog. You'd want to have Peyton, Brady type history to do that, not some injury prone running back. As soon as McFadden went down our season was done. Long-term we need to get away from doing that.
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Matt Flynn is going to do a good job. He has a poise about him and that's good to see. I am ecstatic to welcome him into the Raider Nation.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really hope we win our next three games. Jacksonville and Kansas City are games that we SHOULD win at this point, and Tampa Bay is a team we CAN beat, but it won't be an easy task.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
dante9876 wrote:

Here we go again. Head coach wants to run a scheme in his tenure he, shouldn't wait to start it cause the players he inherited cant run it. If they can't do it they will go soon enough. It's not like our offense was good enough to carry us to the playoffs.


1985 just called, they want their coaching paradigm back. In TODAY'S NFL coaches must reinvent themselves in the mold of their players if they wish to remain relevant or stick around long enough to implement their system. HueJax was not a great playcaller, however, one of the most impactful things that he did was ask DMC what were his favorite plays and implement them immediately.


Again did Joe Philibin change his system. No he did not he came in and with his GM that starting getting rid off and bringing in guys to run it. We havent had the chance to do that yet cause of the situation Reggie walked into. Also please tell me all these coaches who are changing schemes to fit there players. Sure you add wrinkles here and there to try to exploit your players strengths but aint no successful head coach revamping what they want to do cause the roster he inherited cant get it done.


John Fox completely threw out the playbook when he went with Tebow.
Shannarat asked RG3 what his favorite plays were at Baylor. He's a stanch wco guy who's implemented shades of the spread.
Rivera came in and allowed Cam to do many of the things he was doing at Auburn, which was virtually non-existent in the NFL.

The point is WHERE are the PBS wrinkles that by admission you claim are acceptable and how do you account for the fact that nearly the same roster is now sudden inept? Atm there should be many PBS wrinkles that are supplanted by the ZBS at the conclusion of the season. If the roster does need to be tilled under then what's the hold up? Get it done already.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5703
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
dante9876 wrote:

Here we go again. Head coach wants to run a scheme in his tenure he, shouldn't wait to start it cause the players he inherited cant run it. If they can't do it they will go soon enough. It's not like our offense was good enough to carry us to the playoffs.


1985 just called, they want their coaching paradigm back. In TODAY'S NFL coaches must reinvent themselves in the mold of their players if they wish to remain relevant or stick around long enough to implement their system. HueJax was not a great playcaller, however, one of the most impactful things that he did was ask DMC what were his favorite plays and implement them immediately.


Again did Joe Philibin change his system. No he did not he came in and with his GM that starting getting rid off and bringing in guys to run it. We havent had the chance to do that yet cause of the situation Reggie walked into. Also please tell me all these coaches who are changing schemes to fit there players. Sure you add wrinkles here and there to try to exploit your players strengths but aint no successful head coach revamping what they want to do cause the roster he inherited cant get it done.


John Fox completely threw out the playbook when he went with Tebow.
Shannarat asked RG3 what his favorite plays were at Baylor. He's a stanch wco guy who's implemented shades of the spread.
Rivera came in and allowed Cam to do many of the things he was doing at Auburn, which was virtually non-existent in the NFL.

The point is WHERE are the PBS wrinkles that by admission you claim are acceptable and how do you account for the fact that nearly the same roster is now sudden inept? Atm there should be many PBS wrinkles that are supplanted by the ZBS at the conclusion of the season. If the roster does need to be tilled under then what's the hold up? Get it done already.


Credit to Fox for doing what nearly no coach in any sport could do. He implemented a totally new and radical change to his offense, mid season, and found success with it. It's the exception, not the rule.

However, the other side to it is that he did it to save a season going south. And for that reason only. AND once the season did end, he demolished that and traded the player only to revert back to his original system and get a player that could run it. In Fox's case it was a short term fix and a desperation move. Not an organizational philosophy.

Maybe Shanarat and Rivera did those things with RG3 and Cam, but let me ask has it translated to any success in wins and losses? And logistically, how much have Shanarat and Rivera changed for RG3 and Cam? I think they've added wrinkles, like goal line with Cam or spread elements with RG3. But that doesn't mean they changed entire systems for them.
Last I checked we still run plays, that are outside of the normal fit for the WCO and ZBS, that are suited to guys like McFadden or Moore. Such as deep passes to Moore, inside runs for DMC. These are not strict WCO and ZBS plays.
So philosophically it's exactly the same as what Shanarat and Rivera are doing.



As for Hue, letting the tail wag the dog is an understatement. Reliance on McFadden is a mistake because in fact our season did go down the drain with his injury.
Hue didn't let the tail wag the dog, he thought he was the dog and the tail. He was out of his goddamn mind, and I really don't even think any more about what he did or didn't do these days. There's no way he could possibly continue as a coach for Oakland. Knapp is far short of ideal, but he's what we have and even if we had someone else I believe it would be within the same system.
Succesful teams (i.e. winning teams) in fact do both - get players to fit their systems and fit systems to their players. But they fit the system to the player AFTER they draft the player for that system. So which came first, chicken or egg? They come together in this case.
Hinging our offensive system on McFadden is an error in philosophy. And bound to lead to limited success because once he's hurt, he's the only unique explosive player we have to rely on to run that system. By standard logic, if he is the centerpiece and majority of our offense, and he gets hurt, then our offense is dead in the water without him. You cannot run a system entirely suited to one player and their unique skills. The better the player and the more unique their skills are, the more risky it is to cater more of the offense to them. Because if there is any point where you lose that player, the more your offense relies on what only that guy can do, the more they become irreplaceable. Imagine an offense that gets McFadden 200 total yards a game. Sounds great right? Doing things only McFadden can do. Awesome.
Now imagine McFadden getting hurt.
Who can pick up those 200 yards in his place on our roster? Noone. Therefore him getting hurt means we go back to an offensive ice age without him.

Not saying you shouldn't do it at all, I'm just saying that there is a reason coaches almost always add wrinkles rather than an entire reshaping.


For a better example, imagine this. John Fox retolls the offense in Denver last year. They're pretty successful, then 3 games into his starting role Tebow goes down for the year.
Now who in the world do they have at QB to run that offense? Now they're realllly screwed because noone they have can run what Tebow did.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^
didnt mike bush set the record for rb stats during that first sd game last year?
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AND John Fox completely threw out the playbook AGAIN when Denver signed Manning and told him it was completely his baby. SMART coaches conform.
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pHaT_dEsI


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if anybody asked this question but I was wondering why the refs didn't call a delay of game on Matt Bryant for kicking the ball long after Dennis Allen called the time out on the final kick?
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
AND John Fox completely threw out the playbook AGAIN when Denver signed Manning and told him it was completely his baby. SMART coaches conform.



Can you name one who conformed to a running back?
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BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Matt Flynn is going to do a good job. He has a poise about him and that's good to see. I am ecstatic to welcome him into the Raider Nation.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pHaT_dEsI wrote:
I don't know if anybody asked this question but I was wondering why the refs didn't call a delay of game on Matt Bryant for kicking the ball long after Dennis Allen called the time out on the final kick?


Atlanta has done it 3 times this year, and it should be a penalty. Why uncalled? Because the original refs are biased and Atlanta is 6-0, Matt Ryan is the golden boy.

Not only that, but it was not a last second timeout. It was called waaayyy before any snap.
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
AND John Fox completely threw out the playbook AGAIN when Denver signed Manning and told him it was completely his baby. SMART coaches conform.



You are mentioning QBs not RBs. Also yes he changed it for Manning cause Manning has had Superbowl success with his system. McFadden has had like 18 games success. But lets hook our wagon to that. Cmon man.
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