Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Raider Watch Mock Draft (Oct.) V.3
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3623
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
EDITED: for length

Pass rush > CBs


You are comparing the play of a unit which is affected by numerous variables v. the play of an individual. When a CB shuts his side of the field down his value is intrinsic. Just because his play doesn't produce tangible stats he wasn't easily "taken out of the game". Similar to the way a true NT doesn't produce tangible stats yet he makes everyone around him better if he does his job correctly.

That being said pass rush is always greater than CBs. However, what do you do when there isn't an edge rusher available? Reach on an edge rusher and pass on a transcendent player at CB? Stats are just a tool and rule of thumb is just a guideline. There are exceptions to the rule.

I'll try to make a better argument tomorrow as my wino alter ego has taken over.


LOL

Oh, you are absolutely right about individual CB stats. You cant use them to determine their impact, just look at Nnamdi all those years, but thats why I was using team stats. When Aso shut down one WR, the QBs just threw to everyone else- you'd think the predictability factor would work in our favor, but it never did and the team stats I provided show that. QBs completed like 53% of their passes with a 7.1 YPA when they stayed away from Nnamdi, but once he left QBs had the same exact level of success - the only difference is they threw to both sides. If you lock one guy down, the QB will just look for the greatest mismatches and advantages. When their other WRs are being covered by the likes of Lito Sheppard, they are going to go to those guys a lot because he cant even cover a #3 WR.

Look at some of the top CBs compared to their 2011 team pass defense rankings (in terms of QB rating):

Revis- 3rd
Aso- 19th
Samuel- 19th
Bailey- 28th
Talib- 29th

The Jets were the only team that had a top CB and a top pass defense. They are also the only one of those teams with a good #2 CB, so QBs cant just throw the ball to the other side all day long. NOTE- IDK what the hell Philly's excuse was- Nnamdi, Samuel and DRC and they still had a crap pass defense.

Thats not to say I dont want a shutdown CB, who wouldnt? But my point is we just wont get maximum value from a CB until we either get a decent CB on the other side, or a good pass rush. You can say thats not true, but we've already seen it for years. Now, you asked about passing on a transcendent CB in favor of a lower-caliber pass rusher. I agree with you there, never pass on a player you feel can become great, but if we pick top-10 odds are we can have a shot at an elite pass rusher and according to current rankings (its early, I know), no CBs come close to the top couple pass rushers in terms of value.


The Raiders used a shutdown corner the wrong way. The defense has to double the #1WR and then put your shutdown corner on the #2WR. That way the QB can't pick on the other side of the field.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11712
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
I hear what you are saying and agree for the most part. I will take a disruptive pass rusher any day over the 'elite' CB.

But you can't argue with a guy like Charles Woodson who is a disruptive CB. He's a rare breed of CB who has that nose for the ball not just in the air. He's a turnover creator. But again, rare quality at CB.

I also look at the Giants who can rush the passer, but have issues in the secondary.

So what's the right blend? Give me an example of what you would look for in a CB given a strong pass rush.


The fact of the matter is, CBs like Woodson and Revis are slim to none and if you're lucky to find one, their impact is limited. Don't get me wrong, I'd b/c OK w/ them on the Raiders but the price tag wouldn't make me OK.

If I were to take pieces of teams and place them on ours, I'd love the Giants line for obvious reasons. They can rush 4 and get to you. You blitz, it's just an added bonus. They're doing it right. Build your teams inside out. It's an old philosophy that still holds true. W/ their line, I think our secondary would be at least mediocre. BUT if you look for the right combo and what I'm getting at, mix the Giants line that is pretty high priced, w/ the Seahawks secondary which is low priced, mid round guys, and they're the best defense in the league w/ average LB play which I don't think would be tough to obtain w/ those positions. Hell, even the safeties w/ the exception of Thomas are low round, solid picks. Richard Sherman is my ideal CB in terms of how good he is and how much he makes.

The things you look for in a CB is obviously dependent on the scheme being ran, so it's tough for me to answer that.
_________________


PM sig requests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22185
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
I hear what you are saying and agree for the most part. I will take a disruptive pass rusher any day over the 'elite' CB.

But you can't argue with a guy like Charles Woodson who is a disruptive CB. He's a rare breed of CB who has that nose for the ball not just in the air. He's a turnover creator. But again, rare quality at CB.

I also look at the Giants who can rush the passer, but have issues in the secondary.

So what's the right blend? Give me an example of what you would look for in a CB given a strong pass rush.


The fact of the matter is, CBs like Woodson and Revis are slim to none and if you're lucky to find one, their impact is limited. Don't get me wrong, I'd b/c OK w/ them on the Raiders but the price tag wouldn't make me OK.

If I were to take pieces of teams and place them on ours, I'd love the Giants line for obvious reasons. They can rush 4 and get to you. You blitz, it's just an added bonus. They're doing it right. Build your teams inside out. It's an old philosophy that still holds true. W/ their line, I think our secondary would be at least mediocre. BUT if you look for the right combo and what I'm getting at, mix the Giants line that is pretty high priced, w/ the Seahawks secondary which is low priced, mid round guys, and they're the best defense in the league w/ average LB play which I don't think would be tough to obtain w/ those positions. Hell, even the safeties w/ the exception of Thomas are low round, solid picks. Richard Sherman is my ideal CB in terms of how good he is and how much he makes.

The things you look for in a CB is obviously dependent on the scheme being ran, so it's tough for me to answer that.


Using the Seahawks as an example, depth becomes huge then right? Because as soon as Sherman/Browner's contract expires (if not sooner), they want to be paid like the top guys. Then what? You let them walk and hope you have another in the balance?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11712
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Using the Seahawks as an example, depth becomes huge then right? Because as soon as Sherman/Browner's contract expires (if not sooner), they want to be paid like the top guys. Then what? You let them walk and hope you have another in the balance?



Depends on how much they're going to want. If they want something ridiculous, yep, let em walk. There's more CBs out there you can work w/ if you had the Giants front. Let's not forget who's been starting for NY and some haven't been playing as terrible as they would be here. Not even close.
_________________


PM sig requests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5353
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
EDITED: for length

Pass rush > CBs


You are comparing the play of a unit which is affected by numerous variables v. the play of an individual. When a CB shuts his side of the field down his value is intrinsic. Just because his play doesn't produce tangible stats he wasn't easily "taken out of the game". Similar to the way a true NT doesn't produce tangible stats yet he makes everyone around him better if he does his job correctly.

That being said pass rush is always greater than CBs. However, what do you do when there isn't an edge rusher available? Reach on an edge rusher and pass on a transcendent player at CB? Stats are just a tool and rule of thumb is just a guideline. There are exceptions to the rule.

I'll try to make a better argument tomorrow as my wino alter ego has taken over.


LOL

Oh, you are absolutely right about individual CB stats. You cant use them to determine their impact, just look at Nnamdi all those years, but thats why I was using team stats. When Aso shut down one WR, the QBs just threw to everyone else- you'd think the predictability factor would work in our favor, but it never did and the team stats I provided show that. QBs completed like 53% of their passes with a 7.1 YPA when they stayed away from Nnamdi, but once he left QBs had the same exact level of success - the only difference is they threw to both sides. If you lock one guy down, the QB will just look for the greatest mismatches and advantages. When their other WRs are being covered by the likes of Lito Sheppard, they are going to go to those guys a lot because he cant even cover a #3 WR.

Look at some of the top CBs compared to their 2011 team pass defense rankings (in terms of QB rating):

Revis- 3rd
Aso- 19th
Samuel- 19th
Bailey- 28th
Talib- 29th

The Jets were the only team that had a top CB and a top pass defense. They are also the only one of those teams with a good #2 CB, so QBs cant just throw the ball to the other side all day long. NOTE- IDK what the hell Philly's excuse was- Nnamdi, Samuel and DRC and they still had a crap pass defense.

Thats not to say I dont want a shutdown CB, who wouldnt? But my point is we just wont get maximum value from a CB until we either get a decent CB on the other side, or a good pass rush. You can say thats not true, but we've already seen it for years. Now, you asked about passing on a transcendent CB in favor of a lower-caliber pass rusher. I agree with you there, never pass on a player you feel can become great, but if we pick top-10 odds are we can have a shot at an elite pass rusher and according to current rankings (its early, I know), no CBs come close to the top couple pass rushers in terms of value.


The Raiders used a shutdown corner the wrong way. The defense has to double the #1WR and then put your shutdown corner on the #2WR. That way the QB can't pick on the other side of the field.


I know they did, we all screamed for Aso to be used like he should have been. Thats why I also included examples like Bailey, Talib, Samuel, Peterson, etc and how their team's pass D is nothing special even though it includes a top CB.
_________________


Silver&Black88 on the sig

La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3623
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
bitty wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
EDITED: for length

Pass rush > CBs


You are comparing the play of a unit which is affected by numerous variables v. the play of an individual. When a CB shuts his side of the field down his value is intrinsic. Just because his play doesn't produce tangible stats he wasn't easily "taken out of the game". Similar to the way a true NT doesn't produce tangible stats yet he makes everyone around him better if he does his job correctly.

That being said pass rush is always greater than CBs. However, what do you do when there isn't an edge rusher available? Reach on an edge rusher and pass on a transcendent player at CB? Stats are just a tool and rule of thumb is just a guideline. There are exceptions to the rule.

I'll try to make a better argument tomorrow as my wino alter ego has taken over.


LOL

Oh, you are absolutely right about individual CB stats. You cant use them to determine their impact, just look at Nnamdi all those years, but thats why I was using team stats. When Aso shut down one WR, the QBs just threw to everyone else- you'd think the predictability factor would work in our favor, but it never did and the team stats I provided show that. QBs completed like 53% of their passes with a 7.1 YPA when they stayed away from Nnamdi, but once he left QBs had the same exact level of success - the only difference is they threw to both sides. If you lock one guy down, the QB will just look for the greatest mismatches and advantages. When their other WRs are being covered by the likes of Lito Sheppard, they are going to go to those guys a lot because he cant even cover a #3 WR.

Look at some of the top CBs compared to their 2011 team pass defense rankings (in terms of QB rating):

Revis- 3rd
Aso- 19th
Samuel- 19th
Bailey- 28th
Talib- 29th

The Jets were the only team that had a top CB and a top pass defense. They are also the only one of those teams with a good #2 CB, so QBs cant just throw the ball to the other side all day long. NOTE- IDK what the hell Philly's excuse was- Nnamdi, Samuel and DRC and they still had a crap pass defense.

Thats not to say I dont want a shutdown CB, who wouldnt? But my point is we just wont get maximum value from a CB until we either get a decent CB on the other side, or a good pass rush. You can say thats not true, but we've already seen it for years. Now, you asked about passing on a transcendent CB in favor of a lower-caliber pass rusher. I agree with you there, never pass on a player you feel can become great, but if we pick top-10 odds are we can have a shot at an elite pass rusher and according to current rankings (its early, I know), no CBs come close to the top couple pass rushers in terms of value.


The Raiders used a shutdown corner the wrong way. The defense has to double the #1WR and then put your shutdown corner on the #2WR. That way the QB can't pick on the other side of the field.


I know they did, we all screamed for Aso to be used like he should have been. Thats why I also included examples like Bailey, Talib, Samuel, Peterson, etc and how their team's pass D is nothing special even though it includes a top CB.


I'm old school when it comes to building a team. Start with both lines and work your way back. The Raiders could trade back and pick up some linemen and Landry Jones in the second round.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8591
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
bitty wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
EDITED: for length

Pass rush > CBs


You are comparing the play of a unit which is affected by numerous variables v. the play of an individual. When a CB shuts his side of the field down his value is intrinsic. Just because his play doesn't produce tangible stats he wasn't easily "taken out of the game". Similar to the way a true NT doesn't produce tangible stats yet he makes everyone around him better if he does his job correctly.

That being said pass rush is always greater than CBs. However, what do you do when there isn't an edge rusher available? Reach on an edge rusher and pass on a transcendent player at CB? Stats are just a tool and rule of thumb is just a guideline. There are exceptions to the rule.

I'll try to make a better argument tomorrow as my wino alter ego has taken over.


LOL

Oh, you are absolutely right about individual CB stats. You cant use them to determine their impact, just look at Nnamdi all those years, but thats why I was using team stats. When Aso shut down one WR, the QBs just threw to everyone else- you'd think the predictability factor would work in our favor, but it never did and the team stats I provided show that. QBs completed like 53% of their passes with a 7.1 YPA when they stayed away from Nnamdi, but once he left QBs had the same exact level of success - the only difference is they threw to both sides. If you lock one guy down, the QB will just look for the greatest mismatches and advantages. When their other WRs are being covered by the likes of Lito Sheppard, they are going to go to those guys a lot because he cant even cover a #3 WR.

Look at some of the top CBs compared to their 2011 team pass defense rankings (in terms of QB rating):

Revis- 3rd
Aso- 19th
Samuel- 19th
Bailey- 28th
Talib- 29th

The Jets were the only team that had a top CB and a top pass defense. They are also the only one of those teams with a good #2 CB, so QBs cant just throw the ball to the other side all day long. NOTE- IDK what the hell Philly's excuse was- Nnamdi, Samuel and DRC and they still had a crap pass defense.

Thats not to say I dont want a shutdown CB, who wouldnt? But my point is we just wont get maximum value from a CB until we either get a decent CB on the other side, or a good pass rush. You can say thats not true, but we've already seen it for years. Now, you asked about passing on a transcendent CB in favor of a lower-caliber pass rusher. I agree with you there, never pass on a player you feel can become great, but if we pick top-10 odds are we can have a shot at an elite pass rusher and according to current rankings (its early, I know), no CBs come close to the top couple pass rushers in terms of value.


The Raiders used a shutdown corner the wrong way. The defense has to double the #1WR and then put your shutdown corner on the #2WR. That way the QB can't pick on the other side of the field.


I know they did, we all screamed for Aso to be used like he should have been. Thats why I also included examples like Bailey, Talib, Samuel, Peterson, etc and how their team's pass D is nothing special even though it includes a top CB.


I'm old school when it comes to building a team. Start with both lines and work your way back. The Raiders could trade back and pick up some linemen and Landry Jones in the second round.


I agree with bolded. With that said if BPA is CB I wouldnt be opposed. Trading back seems like the best option in all scenarios.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14111
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NickButera wrote:


However also, Revis is by himself, he is pretty much the undisputed best Corner in the league, and it shoes with their pass defense. Everyone else has to be grouped together.


This is true. And he went down and the defense didn't miss a beat. I don't see how there's any other evidence to show that the value of a CB is all it's cracked up to be.

Like someone said earlier last page, we don't need "great" CBs. We need a couple good ones. We can find those all over the draft board and save some money and get good results.


+1

Going by QB rating, teams with "shutdown CBs" ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 13th, 14th, 18th, 19th, 28th, and 29th in 2011. Thats a wide range. Look at the top 3 of those- those defenses are all-around some of the best in the league- HOU, PIT, NYJ. The #3 and #7 teams had a second good CB to pair with their shutdown guy. After that, you are left with the 13th, 14th, 18th, 19th, 28th and 29th as teams with shutdown CBs that lack either a second good CB or a good all-around D to help out.


If you have the time, do it with elite pass rushers (or any position). If you can't be bothered, i can already tell you it'll be a wide range as well.
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14694
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
bitty wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
bitty wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
EDITED: for length

Pass rush > CBs


You are comparing the play of a unit which is affected by numerous variables v. the play of an individual. When a CB shuts his side of the field down his value is intrinsic. Just because his play doesn't produce tangible stats he wasn't easily "taken out of the game". Similar to the way a true NT doesn't produce tangible stats yet he makes everyone around him better if he does his job correctly.

That being said pass rush is always greater than CBs. However, what do you do when there isn't an edge rusher available? Reach on an edge rusher and pass on a transcendent player at CB? Stats are just a tool and rule of thumb is just a guideline. There are exceptions to the rule.

I'll try to make a better argument tomorrow as my wino alter ego has taken over.


LOL

Oh, you are absolutely right about individual CB stats. You cant use them to determine their impact, just look at Nnamdi all those years, but thats why I was using team stats. When Aso shut down one WR, the QBs just threw to everyone else- you'd think the predictability factor would work in our favor, but it never did and the team stats I provided show that. QBs completed like 53% of their passes with a 7.1 YPA when they stayed away from Nnamdi, but once he left QBs had the same exact level of success - the only difference is they threw to both sides. If you lock one guy down, the QB will just look for the greatest mismatches and advantages. When their other WRs are being covered by the likes of Lito Sheppard, they are going to go to those guys a lot because he cant even cover a #3 WR.

Look at some of the top CBs compared to their 2011 team pass defense rankings (in terms of QB rating):

Revis- 3rd
Aso- 19th
Samuel- 19th
Bailey- 28th
Talib- 29th

The Jets were the only team that had a top CB and a top pass defense. They are also the only one of those teams with a good #2 CB, so QBs cant just throw the ball to the other side all day long. NOTE- IDK what the hell Philly's excuse was- Nnamdi, Samuel and DRC and they still had a crap pass defense.

Thats not to say I dont want a shutdown CB, who wouldnt? But my point is we just wont get maximum value from a CB until we either get a decent CB on the other side, or a good pass rush. You can say thats not true, but we've already seen it for years. Now, you asked about passing on a transcendent CB in favor of a lower-caliber pass rusher. I agree with you there, never pass on a player you feel can become great, but if we pick top-10 odds are we can have a shot at an elite pass rusher and according to current rankings (its early, I know), no CBs come close to the top couple pass rushers in terms of value.


The Raiders used a shutdown corner the wrong way. The defense has to double the #1WR and then put your shutdown corner on the #2WR. That way the QB can't pick on the other side of the field.


I know they did, we all screamed for Aso to be used like he should have been. Thats why I also included examples like Bailey, Talib, Samuel, Peterson, etc and how their team's pass D is nothing special even though it includes a top CB.


I'm old school when it comes to building a team. Start with both lines and work your way back. The Raiders could trade back and pick up some linemen and Landry Jones in the second round.


I agree with bolded. With that said if BPA is CB I wouldnt be opposed. Trading back seems like the best option in all scenarios.


thats what frisco did now their o-line and d-line are beasting.

i remember they got staley one year then iupati and anthony davis in the same draft now those guy are so used to eachother and beasting. picked up justin smith then drafted aldon. kept alex smith and iirc he has the highest qb rating in the nfl now. i envy them so bad. thats how we should play ball. dam the fancy shish just line up and beat the man in front of you.
_________________


green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5353
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
NickButera wrote:


However also, Revis is by himself, he is pretty much the undisputed best Corner in the league, and it shoes with their pass defense. Everyone else has to be grouped together.


This is true. And he went down and the defense didn't miss a beat. I don't see how there's any other evidence to show that the value of a CB is all it's cracked up to be.

Like someone said earlier last page, we don't need "great" CBs. We need a couple good ones. We can find those all over the draft board and save some money and get good results.


+1

Going by QB rating, teams with "shutdown CBs" ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 13th, 14th, 18th, 19th, 28th, and 29th in 2011. Thats a wide range. Look at the top 3 of those- those defenses are all-around some of the best in the league- HOU, PIT, NYJ. The #3 and #7 teams had a second good CB to pair with their shutdown guy. After that, you are left with the 13th, 14th, 18th, 19th, 28th and 29th as teams with shutdown CBs that lack either a second good CB or a good all-around D to help out.


If you have the time, do it with elite pass rushers (or any position). If you can't be bothered, i can already tell you it'll be a wide range as well.


I was actually thinking about that, and just running the players I could think of through my head I kind of figured as much. I really think that building the line (on both sides) is the first, and most important step. I would rather have 16-22 sacks from Jared Allen than 4-6 picks from Darelle Revis. Now, I know there is more to both players than sacks and INTs, but I want a guy who will get after the QB every play over a CB that might just be ignored half the game and generally wont factor into the run game as much.

It can really go either way, but I think QBs (especially Manning, Brady, Brees, and those types) fare better against a team with Revis but no pass rush, than a team with average CBs and a fantastic pass rush. Brady, for instance, had his worse games by far last year against DAL, NYG, and MIA- all teams who were top-10 in sacks. Conversely, he fared well against NYJ, KC, and DEN- teams with shutdown CBs and not a good pass rush (aside from DEN). The best QBs can make due without their #1 target if need be- they'll pick you apart elsewhere. If you give those QBs time to throw its usually bad news for you, so I'd rather have a pass rusher that can keep the QB from getting comfortable.
_________________


Silver&Black88 on the sig

La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14111
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ First, know i appreciate the points you bring to the discussion so i wasn't trying to discredit any of it. But for me, there's no right or wrong in this argument. What you need to have success is balance. One elite player won't make enough of a difference. You brought up Allen and he's a perfect example. He led the league in sacks last year but the Vikings still couldn't stop anyone from passing all over their terrible secondary. This year they have better CBs and they get results.
Both units (dline and DBs) complement each other. If one is great, you can get by with the other being just average and it works both ways.
And if you're listening to DA's pressers, that's actually a point i've heard him bring up multiple times.
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone


Last edited by oakdb36 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5353
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
bitty wrote:

I'm old school when it comes to building a team. Start with both lines and work your way back. The Raiders could trade back and pick up some linemen and Landry Jones in the second round.


I agree with bolded. With that said if BPA is CB I wouldnt be opposed. Trading back seems like the best option in all scenarios.


thats what frisco did now their o-line and d-line are beasting.

i remember they got staley one year then iupati and anthony davis in the same draft now those guy are so used to eachother and beasting. picked up justin smith then drafted aldon. kept alex smith and iirc he has the highest qb rating in the nfl now. i envy them so bad. thats how we should play ball. dam the fancy shish just line up and beat the man in front of you.


I wanted Iupati sooo badly that year- instead we took McClain. OL is definitely not an exciting position. You wont get the same thrill as you would if you picked up a stud RB od gamebreaking WR, but if your line can take care of business, everything will be easier for the rest of your offense. Get a great offensive line and you dont need a good RB, you dont need an elite QB. Sure, the more the merrier, but you can do a lot of damage with a good line, a decent RB and an efficient QB.
_________________


Silver&Black88 on the sig

La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3623
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given enough time a WR will always get open that's why you have to get the D-line first.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5353
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Given enough time a WR will always get open that's why you have to get the D-line first.


Agreed. And when you are going against an elite QB, a lot of times the only thing that will get them off course is a disruptive pass rush.
_________________


Silver&Black88 on the sig

La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14694
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
bitty wrote:

I'm old school when it comes to building a team. Start with both lines and work your way back. The Raiders could trade back and pick up some linemen and Landry Jones in the second round.


I agree with bolded. With that said if BPA is CB I wouldnt be opposed. Trading back seems like the best option in all scenarios.


thats what frisco did now their o-line and d-line are beasting.

i remember they got staley one year then iupati and anthony davis in the same draft now those guy are so used to eachother and beasting. picked up justin smith then drafted aldon. kept alex smith and iirc he has the highest qb rating in the nfl now. i envy them so bad. thats how we should play ball. dam the fancy shish just line up and beat the man in front of you.


I wanted Iupati sooo badly that year- instead we took McClain. OL is definitely not an exciting position. You wont get the same thrill as you would if you picked up a stud RB od gamebreaking WR, but if your line can take care of business, everything will be easier for the rest of your offense. Get a great offensive line and you dont need a good RB, you dont need an elite QB. Sure, the more the merrier, but you can do a lot of damage with a good line, a decent RB and an efficient QB.


for me its either jarvis, o-line or trade down
_________________


green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 5 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group