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Can we turn this season around?
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Can we turn this season around? Reply with quote

I say yes. Our defense looked MUCH better in the 4th quarter, now we went from historically bad to mediocre looking so theirs still a LOT of work to do, but progress is progress. Heres 4 things this team needs to do to keep up the winning and get us back into the playoff hunt.

1) Bench Will Smith. This guy is the worst starting DE in the league. He's fat, slow and doesn't seem to care. He offers absolutely zero pass rush, seems to care more about cheap shots than being involved in a plays. On the bright side, at 400 pounds he doesn't get pushed around easily in the running game, so I guess he has being a flat slob on his side. Its also no coincidence that everytime Martez Wilson is on the field something good happens...Why Martez Wilson and Akiem Hicks haven't gotten more playing time is probably the question we're going to be asking ourselves all season.

2) GIVE PIERRE THOMAS THE BALL. EVERYTIME he touches the ball, he's breaking tackles, dragging guys and doing everything in his power to gain yards. Like what the heck? Why is Mark Ingram still getting carries, Pierre Thomas needs to be touching the ball AT LEAST 15 times a game MINIMUM. He's the best HB on this team and quite frankly I think Sproles AND Ingram need to be taking a backseat to this guy. He's a playmaker and IMO the best HB in the league when it comes to the screen game.

3) Isa Abdul-Quddus, start this man. Malcolm Jenkins has been miserable, beyond miserable actually. He's overtaken Scott Shanle as the worst player on the defense IMO and Quddus has looked good in limited playing time. He's athletic, something our safeties have lacked big time and he's been involved in some nice plays this year. I'd like to see him given more playing time, especially when Malcolm Jenkins has routinely been out of position, as we all saw last night.

4) Keep blitzing. Spagnola finally put on his big boy pants last night and starting getting creative, I saw way more stunts and way more blitzes. Curtis Lofton got some great pressure on his blitzes and Roman Harper looked good attacking the QB as well. This defense isn't going to get pressure without sending an extra guy, it seems like Spags finally figured that out.

Don't lose faith boys, if theirs a team possible of coming back after an 0-4 start, its our Saints. WHO DAT!
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CabbageCorp.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1000000000000000000000000000000000% yes on giving pierre thomas more carrys.
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SaintsBeast


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to offer up my responses to those four points.

1) Yes, but he actually needs to be cut. He looked stellar in the preseason, then just.... flatlined. Like he was fighting to play against Goodell, then once the suspensions were overturned he stopped caring. The only reason Martez isn't starting over him is because he isn't bulky enough. He's too light, so if we want this defense to revolve around him and his playmaking ability, we need to play a 3-4/4-3 hybrid.

2) I also agree with this one, but only because Pete Carmichael is being an idiot. PT is hands down our best runner, and right now the best receiving back we have (yeah, i said it). And it's not Ingram/Sproles' fault. When defenses see Sproles come in, they know he's running a route or blocking. When Ingram comes in, they know he's running the ball or blocking. There's no variety! Last year, Ingram was running routes and Sproles was taking between-the-tackle handoffs. Neither really worked spectalularly, but it made the defense stay honest, made them think about the possibility of Ingram not just running and Sproles not just catching. It's why PT is so good. He can block, run routes, run the ball outside, run the ball inside... HELL, EVEN REGGIE HAD MORE VARIETY THAN SPROLES AND INGRAM DO RIGHT NOW. WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT PETE CARMICHAEL?

3) Jenkins... Also, i have to agree with you on this one. He's looked miserable, although he is the reason that Harper got that INT... I think maybe Jenkins could be moved down to a nickel CB with Quddus playing safety? I mean, having a physical but reasonably fast corner to eliminate the slot WR as an option isn't a bad thing, right?

4) YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS FREAKING FINALLY! They showed the stats last night from when GW was the coordinator. Do you guys realize how good our defense actually was last year???? If we had a more solid secondary, it would've been a top ten unit, really. That point aside, FINALLY SPAGS. FREAKING FINALLY. WE WERE ALL SORTS OF IN RIVERS' FACE, AND I LOVED IT. He needs to keep blitzing. Please please please please please keep blitzing.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also loved the different looks we were giving River last night. Tons of stunts, CB blitzes, LB blitzes, Roman Harper at WLB. That's what I like to see, if we're not getting pressure, get creative. That's exactly what Spags did.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Can we turn this season around? Reply with quote

Quote:
Isa Abdul-Quddus, start this man. Malcolm Jenkins has been miserable, beyond miserable actually. He's overtaken Scott Shanle as the worst player on the defense IMO and Quddus has looked good in limited playing time. He's athletic, something our safeties have lacked big time and he's been involved in some nice plays this year. I'd like to see him given more playing time, especially when Malcolm Jenkins has routinely been out of position, as we all saw last night.


I brought this up in another post... Yes Harper had a decent game last night but he is still clearly the weak link of this defense.

Sorry, but that is fact.

I'm not a Jenkins homer but he recives far to much flack because he is constantly asked to make up for Harpers shortcomings on the field in coverage. Don't believe me, whatch Harper and Jenkins when both on the field when the offense is in 3-4 wideout sets!

The defense is forced to put Harper on the Back or the TE close to the line while Jenkins is left to cover the ENTIRE center field. Of course he gets caught out of position in this situation often. Also, 90% of the time Quddus is in hes subbing for Harper, NOT JENKINS... once again, watch the film.

Spagnuolo has slowly realized that Harper CANNOT play safety in his scheme, this past game was a major example of that because Spags went away from the norm and sent Harper on multipule biltz's cause thats all the man can do so of course Harper turned in his best game of the season.

Harpers INT was case in point... classic up&in coverage to protect a safety from getting exposed on the back in just roaming around and benifited by walking under a gift wrapped one caused by a great play by a teammate.

Watch the play again... Jenkins in centerfield, Harper romaning up like a inside backer. As long as were making excuses to keep Harper on the field, the opposing offense will ALWAYS be one step ahead of us!

Sorry but those are the facts!
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QB Connoisseur


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We aren't making the playoffs; schedule is too tough for that. We can get some wins in, but I would be shocked if we made the playoffs.

That being said, we had 53 rushing yards last night... Can we PLEASE give PT the ball more. And forget Ingram, I want Ivory in the game.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Can we turn this season around? Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Quote:
Isa Abdul-Quddus, start this man. Malcolm Jenkins has been miserable, beyond miserable actually. He's overtaken Scott Shanle as the worst player on the defense IMO and Quddus has looked good in limited playing time. He's athletic, something our safeties have lacked big time and he's been involved in some nice plays this year. I'd like to see him given more playing time, especially when Malcolm Jenkins has routinely been out of position, as we all saw last night.


I brought this up in another post... Yes Harper had a decent game last night but he is still clearly the weak link of this defense.

Sorry, but that is fact.

I'm not a Jenkins homer but he recives far to much flack because he is constantly asked to make up for Harpers shortcomings on the field in coverage. Don't believe me, whatch Harper and Jenkins when both on the field when the offense is in 3-4 wideout sets!

The defense is forced to put Harper on the Back or the TE close to the line while Jenkins is left to cover the ENTIRE center field. Of course he gets caught out of position in this situation often. Also, 90% of the time Quddus is in hes subbing for Harper, NOT JENKINS... once again, watch the film.

Spagnuolo has slowly realized that Harper CANNOT play safety in his scheme, this past game was a major example of that because Spags went away from the norm and sent Harper on multipule biltz's cause thats all the man can do so of course Harper turned in his best game of the season.

Harpers INT was case in point... classic up&in coverage to protect a safety from getting exposed on the back in just roaming around and benifited by walking under a gift wrapped one caused by a great play by a teammate.

Watch the play again... Jenkins in centerfield, Harper romaning up like a inside backer. As long as were making excuses to keep Harper on the field, the opposing offense will ALWAYS be one step ahead of us!

Sorry but those are the facts!

I can't agree. Everyone knows that Roman Harpers weakness is in coverage but Strong Safeties aren't known for their coverage ability, they're supposed to be the enforcer of the defense and that's exactly what Harper is, he's incredible in run support and arguably the best blitzing safety in the league. USE HIM IN THOSE ASPECTS. At least Harper plays his position the way its supposed to play, Malcolm Jenkins is a free safety yet...he doesn't create turnovers, sans last night, and he is routinely beat in coverage and you can't blame it on Roman Harper. If Jenkins has a job in coverage its HIS job, not Harpers. It was quite evident in last nights game when Jenkins got absolutely demoralized by Robert Meachem in coverage, he was clearly supposed to have deep coverage on that play.
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Canadian Saint


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with Harper being the weakest link. Look I've given Harper plenty of heat in the past, but he's been one of our most consistent players in the secondary, and add to that, he balled last night.

Obvious is his INT, which was big. Add to that he had a pass deflected while covering Gates. He covered Gates pretty well all night too. Not only that but when he was on the blitz, he did pretty well.

While it's easy to rag on Harper, he's been better than most in the secondary. Jenkins is the co-weakest link in the secondary with White.

Jenkins has been taking bad angles, blowing coverages and flubbing tackles basically all season. And the worst part of it is, he's been upping the amount of smack talking and cheap play too. I've been a staunch supporter of Jenkins, still am, always argued if he played with a good DC, he'd flourish. So far this season he's been the weakest link in the secondary. He needs to up his game. For all the flak Harper gets, he's been solid this year. Pretty consistent game to game.

Apart from that, if we are to make a run, we need to consider changing our approach to offense. It's obvious our D can't be relied upon to win games, so it has to be up to our offense. While I know Brees and co. are capable of a quick strike to get an easy TD, it may be smarter for us to run a lot more and eat up the clock. While the D made improvements last night, I don't feel too much confidence in them.

Martez and especially Galette need to play more. Galette had a number of pressures on the QB, and he's been doing it all season. While I'd love to bench Smith, neither Martez nor Galette are adequate at protecting the run. While Smith is no stud at this, we're already hemorrhaging rushing yards, no need to potentially make it worse. What I would like is to bring in both Galette and Martez on passing downs, move Smith to DT, and pair him with Hicks. Jordan and Bunkley off. I think that gives us our best chance at pressuring the QB.

On blitzing, do what we did last game. We moved Harper to OLB to blitz, brought on Quaddus to play FS, and moved Jenkins to SS. It was a good way to get the best personnel on the field. Really effective. Especially when Spags blitz's with stunts, delays and fun things like that.

Lastly, we need to use more chip blocks. On the Ingram PF, Bushrod looked like he had lead inside his legs. Got beat far too easily. After that we helped both OT's with chip blocks. If you remember, Graham went beast mode on Jarret Johnson IIRC, and just knocked him down and made him nothing. We need this more often. Brees is our franchise player and the most important player this team has. IF he gets hurt, this season and potentially the next few depending on the injury, are over. Chip block, chip block, chip block. Even if we have less receivers out there, having extra blockers or more shorter options aren't bad. This is Brees, given time he can find Oprah if Revis was covering her.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Can we turn this season around? Reply with quote

Quote:
Everyone knows that Roman Harpers weakness is in coverage but Strong Safeties aren't known for their coverage ability, they're supposed to be the enforcer of the defense


That depends on the type of defensive scheme you are running... this was true under Greg Williams but not Spagnuolo. Williams wanted that enforcer and blitzer, while Spagnuolo wants his safetys to be enterchangeable with a good combination of zone coverage and ball skills.
At the moment Spags is just doing the best he can with what he has but it's not untilmatly what he wants in the longrun.

Quote:
At least Harper plays his position the way its supposed to play, Malcolm Jenkins is a free safety yet...he doesn't create turnovers, sans last night, and he is routinely beat in coverage and you can't blame it on Roman Harper.


Oh yes I can... When Jenkins is constantly being asked to play his position but also make up for Harpers short comings in coverage how do you realisticlly expect Jenkins to always be in position to make plays. It simply will not happen. Harper gets to roam and make a play here and there while Jenkins gets hung out to dry because of harpers lack of athletic ability and rookie play at corner.

You dam right I can blame it on Roman Harper!

Quote:
It was quite evident in last nights game when Jenkins got absolutely demoralized by Robert Meachem in coverage, he was clearly supposed to have deep coverage on that play.


Sure, I ask you... where was Harper on that play???

Jenkins covering the ENTIRE center field in a 3 reciver set with on of the best deep targets in the leauge on the field and Harper ONCE AGAIN trying to be hidden by this coaching staff. Rivers read the defense, found Harper... proceeded to autibule and caught the Saints with there pants down!

Jenkins ONCE AGAIN gets blamed/hung out to dry because he's forced to play the entire middle of the field of the defense by himself and Harper gets a pass simply because he's no where around the play.

Guess what, there is a reason for that... because Harper cannot play on the back end in this scheme!!!

No athletic ability
No ball skills
ZERO coverage ability!!!

Sure Harper is a solid run defender and Blitzer but thats not what Spags wants from his safetys!!! now if your saying Harpers gonna move to linebacker full time and compete with Hawthore on the weak side ok but is a undersized backup linebacker worth 5 mil per year on a defense with so many holes?

Anyone with knowledge on defensive schemes can see Harper is the player that opposing offense's single out to dictate what they are going to do and thats not a compliment to Harper!
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roman Harper on that play, was pretty clearly in a read and react coverage scheme. He was in man coverage with Randy McMichael and when McMichael didn't go out for a route, he blitzed. Malcolm Jenkins had deep coverage and completely blew it, you're stretching REAL hard to try and blame Harper for that play. It was 110% on Malcolm Jenkins.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can talk all day about the miscues oin the running game and about how Wilson needs to be in the game more...

As far as Harper vs Jenkins,

I by no means am a Harper hater nor a Jenkins appoligest! It does however bother me that while Jenkins has his faults, Harper mostly gets a free pass for his shortcomings.

What we saw last night is NOT what Spagnuolo will be employing during his tenure here. Like it or not, he did what he had to do with what he had but looking into the future there is only 1 so called starting safety that fits Spags scheme on this roster and it's not Harper!
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Roman Harper on that play, was pretty clearly in a read and react coverage scheme. He was in man coverage with Randy McMichael and when McMichael didn't go out for a route, he blitzed. Malcolm Jenkins had deep coverage and completely blew it, you're stretching REAL hard to try and blame Harper for that play. It was 110% on Malcolm Jenkins.


Don't have to streatch much when in that set and situation Harper is covering the backup TE!

That's a LBer's job,but thanks for proving my point!

We will just agree to disagree on this.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
We can talk all day about the miscues oin the running game and about how Wilson needs to be in the game more...

As far as Harper vs Jenkins,

I by no means am a Harper hater nor a Jenkins appoligest! It does however bother me that while Jenkins has his faults, Harper mostly gets a free pass for his shortcomings.

What we saw last night is NOT what Spagnuolo will be employing during his tenure here. Like it or not, he did what he had to do with what he had but looking into the future there is only 1 so called starting safety that fits Spags scheme on this roster and it's not Harper!

What? I see Roman Harper get crapped on for his lack of coverage abilities ALL the time but this year he's been our ONLY safety making plays in coverage. Against Washington he had great coverage that got called a PI, last night he was making plays all over the place. You know what I've seen out of Malcolm Jenkins? A whole lot of blown coverages and late hits. Thats it.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Roman Harper on that play, was pretty clearly in a read and react coverage scheme. He was in man coverage with Randy McMichael and when McMichael didn't go out for a route, he blitzed. Malcolm Jenkins had deep coverage and completely blew it, you're stretching REAL hard to try and blame Harper for that play. It was 110% on Malcolm Jenkins.


Don't have to streatch much when in that set and situation Harper is covering the backup TE!

That's a LBer's job,but thanks for proving my point!

We will just agree to disagree on this.

lol he was subbed in for Gates. He would have been covering Gates on the play, had he been in, just like he did for most of the game. Roman Harper covered Antonio Gates this entire game and held him to under 20 yards, hard to blame Harper at all.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually if you listen to the commentators they even said it was likely that Jenkins was supposed to be reading the TE/RB and he made the step in on that play but White let a deep threat in Meachem get past him and Jenkins couldn't recover.

Personally I think we should just move Harper to WLB permanently let him play that inside role, put Quddus at FS and Jenkins at FS/SS. I think Jenkins is exactly what Spags wants in a FS so we need another FS/SS to pair with him. Quddus would be good, so would several others like Reid or Lester in the upcoming draft.
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