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Coaching RGIII

 
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mike23md


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 8146
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:23 am    Post subject: Coaching RGIII Reply with quote

I completely understand that this is a hot seat year for Mike Shanahan and he has to prove that he can turn this team into a winner. I, like everyone enjoy when we win. But I also like to see the development of a player into something greater than he was coming out of college. What does that mean, you ask?

Effective coaching is done by improving on a player's skill set to gradually increase their ceiling and play at a high intensity.

BUT...

Are the coaches really doing the right thing for RGIII and this team moving forward.

There are two concerns that I have for our franchise in its current state.

1. The amount of times RGIII runs in the redzone. We have seen the QB draw more often in the redzone and on critical drives that I really care to see RGIII make. Hard to say whether they are designed, but clearly the run was designed against Minnesota. Alfred Morris, Hankerson, and Davis were all blockers for Griffin.

My concern is the development of RGIII to be a pocket passer who can run vs. a running QB. We saw the option yesterday a few times and each time I was asking myself if this is the one that he gets smacked by Allen, Greenway or Henderson. Cause once he starts running, he is a RB and can be hit like one.

2. While the defense would be the easy choice here, and I think that the second half playcalling when we have the LEAD is abysmal, that is not what my major concern is.

Pierre Garcon. First off, the injury is unspecified, though at one point I had read or heard that he had turf toe. Which really makes this hard for me to understand. After spending 4 years in Indy, where they play on turf, he can play 14, 14, 14, and 16 games and then come here and is limited after game 1. And if its not turf toe, then specify what it is.

Maybe this is not a concern to a lot of you, but he is supposed to be our #1 and all of a sudden he has an undisclosed foot injury that is keeping him from playing.

There is no cohesion with RGIII and our #1 WR. While it is nice to see our other guys get in there and make plays like Morgan and Hankerson, I just cannot understand why Garcon is taking so long to get back to full health.

I think that having Garcon healthy and playing would alleviate a lot of the pressure for RGIII to have to run or play the option game. Does anyone else have this concern or am I the only one.

Or maybe you have another view?

I want the Skins to be successful in every way. But I personally feel like the Shanahans are not really coaching effectively to build RGIII into that elite pocket passer that has the ability to run. Instead of the other way around.

And Pierre Garcon needs to get healthy and stay healthy. Like he was in Indy and why the Skins signed him. He needs to be here for RGIII as much as RGIII needs to be here for him.
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rizzy


Joined: 13 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Redzone and on 3rd and 5 or less is when I want Griffin running, as long as they don't run the actual option anymore I am happy. He is pretty much undefendable when he runs the read option and then hits someone over the middle. I think they are doing a great job with him, he is making a lot less mistakes than I thought he would. I was expecting him to make a lot of the mistakes forcing plays like the interception he through.
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footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For clarification, your current concerns are two-fold:
1 - Robert Griffin III having too many planned runs and therefore not developing him as a passer
2 - Pierre Garcon's foot injury

If correct, I see a correlation: RGIII does not have his #1 receiver, nor does he have a redzone magnet as a receiver. Fred Davis has never been that guy, and Briscoe clearly needs some work mentally.

The Redskins have to run with RGIII at the moment, and I think it's obvious that the plan is to reduce the number of runs with time. But again, at the moment he is missing his #1 receiver and Hankerson is still developing into a reliable player. Josh Morgan can be effective when there is some room in the middle of the field, and we've seen Santana Moss become a bit more involved. Still, the Redskins receivers are behind in their chemistry with RGIII and the Garcon injury helps rectify that imbalance.

Spreading out the distribution helps RGIIIs development because he is looking for different players on different plays. I've been very happy with the play-calling this year, aside from maybe 15-20 plays; and any coordinator will have duds, sometimes intentionally. For example, we saw Briscoe on the receiving end of a beauty of a pass yesterday, and a great play-call, only to drop it. There have been some drive-killing drops by just about every receiver.

While Morris has been impressive, when you are missing Roy Helu Jr. and Evan Royster that causes problems. Instead of having these three different backs keeping the defense on edge, and allowing a diversified rushing attack on their own, you have to supplement with another factor. We saw yesterday how ineffective Jared Allen was because of this, with one exception where Paulsen motioned behind the line of scrimmage to block him one on one. All of those runs will help RGIII in the passing game, and help his receivers.

All that said, it is not ideal that RGIII is running, but yesterday it worked and it worked because they were protecting him with Darrel Young, Alfred Morris, Niles Paul and Fred Davis. Yes, they are running him, but I am loving some of these designs runs because they are well designed and well blocked. We haven't seen a lot of contact on RGIII after the Bengals game - that is evidence that Kyle and Mike are constantly adapting.

The sum: While Garcon needs to return, at least the receivers are establishing more of a connection with RG3 in the interim, including Sleepy Fred, Santana Moss, Josh Morgan and Leo Hankerson (to an extent). If the Redskins are going to do well toward the end of the season as a passing team, they will need to develop those connections.

....And RGIII was pumped with his two rushing TDs, and when he has energy and an abundance of confidence, how can the team not up their play? Despite his planned runs, he is staying in the pocket...if that is not showing a commitment to being a passing QB...you got me.
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21 ALL THE WAY


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Week by Week IMO we have decreased the number of times we use the option where the play is designed for RG3 to run the ball. We may still use the package but now it's more designed for play action or actually handing the ball off to the RB. RG3 has the gift to run with the ball and it's what makes him special along with the ability to be great passer. I have no problem when the runs I saw from Rg3 yesterday because running Rg3 at times gives us a advantage over deffense. The draw in the redzone was called at the perfect time and blocking was good as well.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Coaching RGIII Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
Pierre Garcon. First off, the injury is unspecified, though at one point I had read or heard that he had turf toe. Which really makes this hard for me to understand. After spending 4 years in Indy, where they play on turf, he can play 14, 14, 14, and 16 games and then come here and is limited after game 1. And if its not turf toe, then specify what it is.


Since I feel footy had a great response to the first half of your concern, let me try taking a stab at this part. Let me preface this by saying I'm not a doctor.

Now that is out of the way, on to the topic at hand: turf toe, or more properly, metatarsophalangeal joint sprain (yes, I got that from Wikipedia; my brain holds lots of useless information but not that). Officially, turf toe is only when it affects the big toe, so if he sprained one of the other ones, it technically wouldn't be turf toe.

What I did know is that it doesn't have to happen on artificial turf, as it is hyperextension of the toe. It's more common on turf (hence the name), but "the injury occurs when someone or something falls on the back of the calf while that leg's knee and tips of the toes are touching the ground. The toe is hyperextended and thus the joint is injured."

If this is the case, I don't recall seeing that happen in his TD run. Anyone?

However, what I didn't know is this:
Quote:
A variation of "turf" toe can also happen when the nail bed is forced into the cuticle and swelling with isolated pain may occur.

It can also be caused by not cutting one's toenails properly. If toenails are sufficiently long enough that they rub on one's shoes, the metatarsal can become hyper-extended, especially when engaged in running or other physical activity.


So, it's possible that he's got some cuticle issues on his feet and that in turn is causing some issue.

The real problem with turf toe, or toe sprains in general:
Quote:
The injury can be debilitating for athletes who need to accelerate, quickly change direction, or jump. Use of the toes is not possible during the healing process.[citation needed] Since the toes are necessary for proper push-off when accelerating, those sorts of athletic activities can be almost completely curtailed. A healing period of one or more months is often required.

(normally I'd take out the "citation needed" piece as it is Wikipedia fluff, but I'm leaving it there since its a bit questionable since players have played with turf toe)

That first sentence is a description of a wide receiver to a tee. If he does in fact have a toe sprain like this, he's essentially useless to us this season. It's not a devastating injury like a broken limb or a torn ACL that requires IR, but it's debilitating to the point that putting him on IR would make the most sense so he could heal up. It can become chronic, so shutting him down might be the right move for him and RG3 over the long haul.

Quote:
And Pierre Garcon needs to get healthy and stay healthy. Like he was in Indy and why the Skins signed him. He needs to be here for RGIII as much as RGIII needs to be here for him.


If in fact this is a toe sprain, it's not really an injury that could have been prevented. It's not like he could have stretched or warmed up better or was in better conditioning this wouldn't have happened (outside of possibly cutting his toenails). It's bad luck.

At the same time, getting him healthy means that realistically he cannot be there for Griffin. So, the team has a choice: shut him down and see if they can get the toe better for 2013, or keep limping along (sorry, bad pun) seeing if he can go. The problem with the latter is that if you aggravate it, you might be making it a permanent problem and thus killing your investment in Garcon.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree with mike23 and have let my feelings be known since week 1.

As to the foot injury, it's a problem for all reasons Mike said.

Also, it definitely happened on the 88 yd td run as woz describes how the injury occurs. He was on his toes sprinting and the db lunging for him came down on the back of Garçon's calf at around the 10 yd line
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
I totally agree with mike23 and have let my feelings be known since week 1.

As to the foot injury, it's a problem for all reasons Mike said.

Also, it definitely happened on the 88 yd td run as woz describes how the injury occurs. He was on his toes sprinting and the db lunging for him came down on the back of Garçon's calf at around the 10 yd line


Yeah, I went back and watched the highlight. You can see Garcon limp a bit in the end zone after he stops.

Bad luck.
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