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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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 Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| SeanTayorsaPIMP wrote: | | Thaiphoon wrote: | | Say hello to 2-4. |
I need you to elaborate some. Do I think we're a playoff team? No way. But we are not the doormat anymore. We're gonna have some bad games and some good games. I think we take the Vikes this week and even if we don't, I don't see how this is a guaranteed L like I thought with ATL. We have just as much talent as Minn and we are the home team. |
In what positons are we better than the Vikings? Be honest
I can say we have a better MLB/ilb... And???
Nothing. Seriously here. I'm just being honest. They are a solid football team and have been constructed well.
Obviously we can win, any given Sunday any team can win. Do I think it's likely?? No, I don't
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SeanTayorsaPIMP
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 3243
Location: Boston, Ma
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | SeanTayorsaPIMP wrote: | | Thaiphoon wrote: | | Say hello to 2-4. |
I need you to elaborate some. Do I think we're a playoff team? No way. But we are not the doormat anymore. We're gonna have some bad games and some good games. I think we take the Vikes this week and even if we don't, I don't see how this is a guaranteed L like I thought with ATL. We have just as much talent as Minn and we are the home team. |
In what positons are we better than the Vikings? Be honest
I can say we have a better MLB/ilb... And???
Nothing. Seriously here. I'm just being honest. They are a solid football team and have been constructed well.
Obviously we can win, any given Sunday any team can win. Do I think it's likely?? No, I don't |
Outside of Kalil and their center Sullivan, I like our line better. Harvin is the best WR playing on Sunday but I like our receivers and tight ends as much or even better than the Vikes. Alfred Morris has out rushed and out scored AP this season, plus AP has an ankle sprain he's dealing with. I like their D-line better than us but I like our LBers better. Both secondaries blow but what's killed us is the deep ball. Ponders longest throw this season has been 29 yards, he is not the gunslinger big arm that Ryan, Freeman, and Bradford were. Which brings me to the most important position. We have the better QB. I know Ponder has had a nice season, but I still give RG3 the advantage there. The Vikes have the better special teams. Overall, I think we match up pretty fairly with the Vikes talent wise. I'm trying to not to be too much of a homer here, but I don't think the Vikes are a guaranteed loss just because they are 4-1.
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Thaiphoon
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 12265
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| SeanTayorsaPIMP wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | SeanTayorsaPIMP wrote: | | Thaiphoon wrote: | | Say hello to 2-4. |
I need you to elaborate some. Do I think we're a playoff team? No way. But we are not the doormat anymore. We're gonna have some bad games and some good games. I think we take the Vikes this week and even if we don't, I don't see how this is a guaranteed L like I thought with ATL. We have just as much talent as Minn and we are the home team. |
In what positons are we better than the Vikings? Be honest
I can say we have a better MLB/ilb... And???
Nothing. Seriously here. I'm just being honest. They are a solid football team and have been constructed well.
Obviously we can win, any given Sunday any team can win. Do I think it's likely?? No, I don't |
Outside of Kalil and their center Sullivan, I like our line better. Harvin is the best WR playing on Sunday but I like our receivers and tight ends as much or even better than the Vikes. Alfred Morris has out rushed and out scored AP this season, plus AP has an ankle sprain he's dealing with. I like their D-line better than us but I like our LBers better. Both secondaries blow but what's killed us is the deep ball. Ponders longest throw this season has been 29 yards, he is not the gunslinger big arm that Ryan, Freeman, and Bradford were. Which brings me to the most important position. We have the better QB. I know Ponder has had a nice season, but I still give RG3 the advantage there. The Vikes have the better special teams. Overall, I think we match up pretty fairly with the Vikes talent wise. I'm trying to not to be too much of a homer here, but I don't think the Vikes are a guaranteed loss just because they are 4-1. |
I'm with Turtle here. I think if RG3 plays we have a chance to win. If Cousins plays we will do well but lose (he's got to stop the stupid INTs). Also, one thing people forget is that the presence of RG3 in the backfield opens up possibilities for Morris in the run game. Without RG3 there, they don't have to fear the QB keeping the ball and running. So the "spy" won't have to stay home.
Why do I say we will lose. Look at our losses. We have found some way to beat ourselves (or underperform and let other teams beat us). Stupid penalties, plays, decisions at key moments are costing us wins. This team needs more seasoning before I can be comfortable going into a game knowing that we will win the game.
Put it this way. To me, the entire Redskins team is like Billy Cundiff lining up for a FG. He might make it. But before he lines up for it, I'm expecting a miss.
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| SeanTayorsaPIMP wrote: | | I like us in this one. We almost beat them last season with Grossman. If RG3 plays, he's going to frustrate the hell outta their pass rush and I think that's the strength of their defense. Their secondary is not good and I think our receivers have an advantage against them. |
This year's Vikings team is clearly better than last years. Your basing your opinion far too much based on the play of last year.
The Vikings have a top 10 pass defense this year, how you can conclude that the Vikes secondary is bad is beyond me. Again, its 2012 my friend. Not 2011.
You need to educate yourself more about the 2012 Vikings. Pass defense has been a strength for MN, pass rush has been a strength this year and the run defense is top 5. |
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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The Vikes do have a lot of new faces in the secondary since the last time we played each other.
CB Chris Cook - Only played in the first 6 games last year. Cook has been quite good this year, outside of the Cecil Shorts TD, everything he has given up has been underneath.
CB Josh Robinson - Rookie 3rd round pick is playing really well, he has essentially made Winfield the 3rd CB. Robison hasnt given up anything down field and is looking like a real gem. Robinson has a bright future.
CB Antoine Winfield - Only played in the first 6 games last year, has been stellar under 15 yards, has made a few big plays and is the best CB in football when it comes to defending the run. Winfield will struggle 15+ yards down field in coverage, but MN tries to keep him around that LB range.
FS Harrison Smith - Probably the best DB for the Vikes this year and likely ROY for the MN. Smith is a nasty hitter, smart player and is rarely out of position. Smith isnt a playmaker, but he gives up very little. PFF has him ranked as the 3rd best Safety this year.
SS Jamarca Sanford - Sanford is starting due to Mistral Raymond's injury. Sanford is a tenacious hitter, but if there is anyone you should pick on in the passing game, its Sanford.
The Vikes play a bend dont break style of defense. You might catch a lot of passes underneath, but you will get smacked pretty hard for doing so. MN has been laying the wood in the back 7. The Vikes wont give up much 20+ yards down field. The Vikes secondary has been one of the best in the league this year in preventing big pass plays. |
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SeanTayorsaPIMP
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 3243
Location: Boston, Ma
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: | | SeanTayorsaPIMP wrote: | | I like us in this one. We almost beat them last season with Grossman. If RG3 plays, he's going to frustrate the hell outta their pass rush and I think that's the strength of their defense. Their secondary is not good and I think our receivers have an advantage against them. |
This year's Vikings team is clearly better than last years. Your basing your opinion far too much based on the play of last year.
The Vikings have a top 10 pass defense this year, how you can conclude that the Vikes secondary is bad is beyond me. Again, its 2012 my friend. Not 2011.
You need to educate yourself more about the 2012 Vikings. Pass defense has been a strength for MN, pass rush has been a strength this year and the run defense is top 5. |
I only made one comment/sentence about last years Vikings. As for their pass defense, they are currently 14th in the league...middle of the pack. Probably playing better than their talent. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/sort/netPassingYardsPerGame/position/defense
I think that Minn is much improved, but if you think they are going to keep up this pace with wins, I think you'll be disappointed. I think Harrison Smith is a good player but who else does your secondary really have? Winfield is on the wrong side of 30 and the rest of the secondary are projects. I'm not going to pretend I've watch a lot of the 2012 Vikings, but what I do know is that they don't worry me nearly as much as the Falcons did and we stayed in the game with them and had plenty of chances to actually pull off the upset. I'm not saying the Redskins are guaranteed going to win, I'm just saying that we aren't guaranteed to lose either.
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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The vikes are 14th in yards, but yards isnt the best measure of pass defense. they have given up few 20+ yard pass plays, they are top 10 in avg. and have given up 6 Td passes. I am not implying they are elite but they have been good and have clearly been a reason why the Vikes have been as good as they have been this year.
Smith has been good as you said, but so have Cook, Winfield, and Robinson at CB.
And what does that mean, that the vikes DBs are playing better than there talent level. MN has a lot of young talent in the secondary.
Washington very well could win this game too, and I am not suggesting they dont have a chance.
Last edited by vikingsrule on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:13 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| SeanTayorsaPIMP wrote: | | I think Harrison Smith is a good player but who else does your secondary really have? |
Chris Cook is playing very, very well.
Josh Robinson, a rookie, has grasped his role very quickly.
Jamarca Sanford hits hard and always seems to be around loose balls.
Winfield had an INT yesterday.
if you watched the Vikes this year, you'd know we have players.
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SeanTayorsaPIMP
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Location: Boston, Ma
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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I get it, you guys like the future of your CBs, but please don't tell me you don't expect them to have growing pains this season. We all know about Cook's issues off the field and Robinson isn't exactly a polished prospect. I still like our receivers and tight ends against them. Listen, I'm not trying to be a blind homer over here and I appreciate the info on opposing teams but I honestly, and I'm sorry if I sound like a jerk, think that the Vikings are not as tough as their record would show. Everyone in this forum, including veteran, well respected posters aren't giving the Redskins a chance. This isn't the Patriots, Falcons, or Texans. This is a team still with a lot of flaws and growing pains to go through. I give us a real chance to win this game, and maybe it's nothing more than a gut feeling but I have us over the Vikings at home.
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| SeanTayorsaPIMP wrote: | | I get it, you guys like the future of your CBs, but please don't tell me you don't expect them to have growing pains this season. We all know about Cook's issues off the field and Robinson isn't exactly a polished prospect. I still like our receivers and tight ends against them. Listen, I'm not trying to be a blind homer over here and I appreciate the info on opposing teams but I honestly, and I'm sorry if I sound like a jerk, think that the Vikings are not as tough as their record would show. Everyone in this forum, including veteran, well respected posters aren't giving the Redskins a chance. This isn't the Patriots, Falcons, or Texans. This is a team still with a lot of flaws and growing pains to go through. I give us a real chance to win this game, and maybe it's nothing more than a gut feeling but I have us over the Vikings at home. |
Your entitled to your opinion, dont apologize for it. I dont think anyone here is saying Washington has no chance. I mean, I predicted that the Vikes win 24-20. A game that close suggests that Washington very well had a chance.
I am not a blind homer either, MN surely has flaws and they have to show consistency on the road this year. The Vikings struggle throwing the ball down field and they lack some of that aggression to put teams away. MN plays very conservatively on offense, so if Washington can get a lead early, it could be tough for MN to keep pace. Problem is, the Vikes defense has really prevented the opposition from doing that.
Outside of the Vikes passing game, MN has been flawless the past three weeks. The past three weeks, the Vikes have always had the lead against their opposition. I get that they could struggle and hit a wall, but I guess I wont suggest that until I see it. As of now, MN is a very disciplined, physical and budding team. |
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66624
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| SeanTayorsaPIMP wrote: | | We all know about Cook's issues off the field |
so? guys do grow up and leave their mistake filled past behind, ya know.
Jared Allen had two or three DUI's on him and was suspended a few games. all in the past though, and has never been a problem since he decided to leave it that way.
seems like a wrong way to look at Cook, who has played very well this year and hasn't been a bit of trouble.
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joru1000
Joined: 23 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:23 am Post subject: |
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Back away fellow Vikings fans. There are too many of us in here posting considering this is a thread in the Redskins forum. I feel like we are coming across as rabid dogs in all of these game day threads started in the opposing teams' forums. Let the Redskins fans have their thread, and let some of them have their fool's hope and miseducated opinions about us. It'll be funnier when they're in for a rude awakening.
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footy_29
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
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Location: The Frozen Tundra that is Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| joru1000 wrote: | | Back away fellow Vikings fans. There are too many of us in here posting considering this is a thread in the Redskins forum. I feel like we are coming across as rabid dogs in all of these game day threads started in the opposing teams' forums. Let the Redskins fans have their thread, and let some of them have their fool's hope and miseducated opinions about us. It'll be funnier when they're in for a rude awakening. |
We encourage the perspectives of other fans here, and I hope Vikings fans continue to post here. As for fool's hope, only a fool would expect an easy win here and that seems to be what you communicated. While I have no inkling as to whether the Redskins will win or lose, I expect a competitive game as the Redskins seem to match up well with the Vikings.
There are holes to exploit in the Vikings defense, so let's not be too overconfident that they will make this an easy match-up.
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
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Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| footy_29 wrote: | | joru1000 wrote: | | Back away fellow Vikings fans. There are too many of us in here posting considering this is a thread in the Redskins forum. I feel like we are coming across as rabid dogs in all of these game day threads started in the opposing teams' forums. Let the Redskins fans have their thread, and let some of them have their fool's hope and miseducated opinions about us. It'll be funnier when they're in for a rude awakening. |
We encourage the perspectives of other fans here, and I hope Vikings fans continue to post here. As for fool's hope, only a fool would expect an easy win here and that seems to be what you communicated. While I have no inkling as to whether the Redskins will win or lose, I expect a competitive game as the Redskins seem to match up well with the Vikings.
There are holes to exploit in the Vikings defense, so let's not be too overconfident that they will make this an easy match-up. |
What worries me most about Washington is there effectiveness of the ZBS and Morris. MN's run defense, which has been dominant this year, just hasnt faced this type of running attack and if Washington can really get that ground game going, it could be a rough day for the vikes on defense.
MN's defense is exploitable, specifically in the LB zones. I think if Washington is to win, they need to sustain drives through a short and efficient passing game. Chances are Washington will be in for a rough game if they think they can just air it out and attack the Vikes secondary down field, that only increases the effectiveness of the pass rush and the Vikes scheme is largely setup to stop those down field passes. However, an efficient and quick hitting passing game is really where Washington needs to exploit MN.
Of course, the Redskins will need to find success on the ground. If they dont, MN will basically tee off at the QB and again, that plays to the strength of the Vikings defense.
The Vikes defense has been playing at a near flawless level the past three weeks, giving up only 13, 13 and 7 points. It wont be easy for Washington, but there are areas to exploits, specifically finding soft spots in the zones. LB coverage is still a concern for MN. |
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Vikefan79
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 25105
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| footy_29 wrote: | | joru1000 wrote: | | Back away fellow Vikings fans. There are too many of us in here posting considering this is a thread in the Redskins forum. I feel like we are coming across as rabid dogs in all of these game day threads started in the opposing teams' forums. Let the Redskins fans have their thread, and let some of them have their fool's hope and miseducated opinions about us. It'll be funnier when they're in for a rude awakening. |
We encourage the perspectives of other fans here, and I hope Vikings fans continue to post here. As for fool's hope, only a fool would expect an easy win here and that seems to be what you communicated. While I have no inkling as to whether the Redskins will win or lose, I expect a competitive game as the Redskins seem to match up well with the Vikings.
There are holes to exploit in the Vikings defense, so let's not be too overconfident that they will make this an easy match-up. |
Not many of us are as confident as joru1000. It's going to be a tough game. Road games are tough no matter who the visiting team is. I wish the Redskins and their fans the best of luck
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