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Drew Brees is a top 10 QB all time
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CP3MVP


Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 1821
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="AmerigoCorleone"]
CP3MVP wrote:
It's the truth. From the Asante dropping the pick to the luckiest play in sports history


What about the Tuck Rule? What about Tom Brady being a game manager for his first Super Bowl? Why are these things not taken into account? Did Brady not have a bit of luck as well?

The tuck rule wasn't luck that was the correct call, and you can't compare that to tyrees catch or An all pro corner dropping the gamewinning pick from his hands

As for Brady being a gamemanager in his first SB, you would have to say the same thing about Montana in his first

Montana SB XVI

14/22 157 1 TD 0 Picks

Tom Brady SB XXXVI

16/27 145 1 TD 0 Picks
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CP3MVP


Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 1821
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
AmerigoCorleone wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Brady is the GOAT. 5 Super Bowls, 3 wins, 2 others blown by the defense. Elite stats, incredible clutch play. Greatest pocket passer of all time. Married to Gisele Bunchen. He is the GOAT.


I agree that Tom Brady is the GOAT but his defense is not to blame for his 2 Super Bowl losses. The blame rests on his shoulders. And his defense carried him to his first Super Bowl.


I don't know how people can say that. Brady has been playing in a time where offense has been catered to immensely. He does well, but he also has benefitted from having Bill Belichick as coach. Let's face it: Bill knows what he is doing, and Brady has benefitted greatly from playing for him. That is why I don't rate him as highly as a lot of people do.


Belichick without Brady - 47-49 (1-1 postseason) (7-9 average record)
Belichick with Brady - 140-41 (16-6 posteason, 3 Super Bowl titles) (12-4 average record)

We can clearly see who benefited more from who
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BlaqOptic


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 43632
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brees is overrated and it hurts me that because he has a few pretty records people will overlook the fact that despite the extreme complexities of his offense there are two major factors at play here a.) He's a product of Payton and b.) He LOVES the checkdown. I'm not talking short passes here. I'm talking literal definition of a checkdown.
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
Brees is overrated and it hurts me that because he has a few pretty records people will overlook the fact that despite the extreme complexities of his offense there are two major factors at play here a.) He's a product of Payton and b.) He LOVES the checkdown. I'm not talking short passes here. I'm talking literal definition of a checkdown.

Product of Payton? He's played some great football in Payton's absence, I agree Payton vaulted him to elite status but Payton built his offensive system to fit Brees strength. Also, it's hard to fault Brees for trying I get the ball into the hands of Sproles and Thomas, they're out biggest playmakers besides Graham.
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[quote="GFalcon"]go saints[/quote]
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BlaqOptic


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Brees is overrated and it hurts me that because he has a few pretty records people will overlook the fact that despite the extreme complexities of his offense there are two major factors at play here a.) He's a product of Payton and b.) He LOVES the checkdown. I'm not talking short passes here. I'm talking literal definition of a checkdown.

Product of Payton? He's played some great football in Payton's absence, I agree Payton vaulted him to elite status but Payton built his offensive system to fit Brees strength. Also, it's hard to fault Brees for trying I get the ball into the hands of Sproles and Thomas, they're out biggest playmakers besides Graham.


Not faulting him... Think he's clearly top 4. But just feel he's a little overrated.
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LikesHAM


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
Brees is overrated and it hurts me that because he has a few pretty records people will overlook the fact that despite the extreme complexities of his offense there are two major factors at play here a.) He's a product of Payton and b.) He LOVES the checkdown. I'm not talking short passes here. I'm talking literal definition of a checkdown.


What a BS excuse. Brady throws 5-8 yards slants with an absolutely clean pocket about 70% of the time. Is he overrated too?

QBs get criticized if they force passes deep to their best players like Stafford but also get criticized if they checkdown too apparently. QBs can't win Laughing
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DetroitSpirit


Joined: 25 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LikesHAM wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Brees is overrated and it hurts me that because he has a few pretty records people will overlook the fact that despite the extreme complexities of his offense there are two major factors at play here a.) He's a product of Payton and b.) He LOVES the checkdown. I'm not talking short passes here. I'm talking literal definition of a checkdown.


What a BS excuse. Brady throws 5-8 yards slants with an absolutely clean pocket about 70% of the time. Is he overrated too?

QBs get criticized if they force passes deep to their best players like Stafford but also get criticized if they checkdown too apparently. QBs can't win :lol:

So you have to be a 'mobile' quarterback to get praise apparently.
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
Brees is overrated and it hurts me that because he has a few pretty records people will overlook the fact that despite the extreme complexities of his offense there are two major factors at play here a.) He's a product of Payton and b.) He LOVES the checkdown. I'm not talking short passes here. I'm talking literal definition of a checkdown.

Product of Payton? He's played some great football in Payton's absence, I agree Payton vaulted him to elite status but Payton built his offensive system to fit Brees strength. Also, it's hard to fault Brees for trying I get the ball into the hands of Sproles and Thomas, they're out biggest playmakers besides Graham.


Not faulting him... Think he's clearly top 4. But just feel he's a little overrated.

That's fine but I hate the usage of the term check down with Brees. Brees best weapons in terms of making plays after a catch are quite clearly Darren Sproles and Pierre Thomas, and Reggie Bush in the past. I don't think it's fair to hold it against him that Payton often wanted to get these guys the ball in space. Brees is more than capable of hitting a deep pattern in stride. The term check down, to me at least, means that a QB is scared or incapable of throwing deep which isn't true in regards to Brees. I also hate the system QB argument, every player is a product of a system, good coaches build their systems to their players strengths not the other way around. If you've got Cam Newton you're not going to keep him in the pocket are you? And if you've got Peyton Manning you're definitely not going to incorporate a run heavy offense that relies on the QB just managing the game.
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AmerigoCorleone


Joined: 30 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="CP3MVP"]
AmerigoCorleone wrote:
CP3MVP wrote:
It's the truth. From the Asante dropping the pick to the luckiest play in sports history


What about the Tuck Rule? What about Tom Brady being a game manager for his first Super Bowl? Why are these things not taken into account? Did Brady not have a bit of luck as well?

The tuck rule wasn't luck that was the correct call, and you can't compare that to tyrees catch or An all pro corner dropping the gamewinning pick from his hands

As for Brady being a gamemanager in his first SB, you would have to say the same thing about Montana in his first

Montana SB XVI

14/22 157 1 TD 0 Picks

Tom Brady SB XXXVI

16/27 145 1 TD 0 Picks


Tom Brady is better than Joe Montana even though Montana has 1 more ring. Why? Because Brady is just a flat out better Quarterback.

Brady had a lot of luck being in the New England Patriots organization. He hasn't won a Super Bowl ever since hitting his prime. In fact he has lost 2. If Brady is drafted to an untalented team then he never sniffs 3 rings let alone a hypothetical 5.
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Bobikus


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AmerigoCorleone wrote:
If Brady is drafted to an untalented team then he never sniffs 3 rings let alone a hypothetical 5.


This is also true of Joe's rings.
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Wislakrak


Joined: 03 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Brees could be a Top 10 QB, but the thing holding him back are those 5 years of average QB play until he went to NOLA. His years with the Saints have been Top 10 worthy, just his time in San Diego wasn't all that good.
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7DnBrnc53


Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 3253
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="CP3MVP"]
AmerigoCorleone wrote:
CP3MVP wrote:
It's the truth. From the Asante dropping the pick to the luckiest play in sports history


What about the Tuck Rule? What about Tom Brady being a game manager for his first Super Bowl? Why are these things not taken into account? Did Brady not have a bit of luck as well?

The tuck rule wasn't luck that was the correct call, and you can't compare that to tyrees catch or An all pro corner dropping the gamewinning pick from his hands

As for Brady being a gamemanager in his first SB, you would have to say the same thing about Montana in his first

Montana SB XVI

14/22 157 1 TD 0 Picks

Tom Brady SB XXXVI

16/27 145 1 TD 0 Picks


I agree. Neither QB deserved to be MVP of their first SB wins. Their defenses won those games. I don't think that Montana should have been MVP of the win over Miami, either. Someone on D or Roger Craig (three TD's) should have been.
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Blink


Joined: 05 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree that he's being over rated on an all time scale.

He's one of the best ever, no doubt, but not in my top 5.

He's been known to turn the ball over at a higher rate than other elite QBs of his time.

Look at his pass attempts...my god. His bulk stats are impressive, but he's had hundreds more attempts than others. Literally hundreds.


Off topic here but:

Am I the only one who thinks how he performs this year without Payton will have a big impact on his legacy? Him and Payton have put up sick records together, Brees has looked different without him though.
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AmerigoCorleone


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blink wrote:
I have to agree that he's being over rated on an all time scale.

He's one of the best ever, no doubt, but not in my top 5.

1. He's been known to turn the ball over at a higher rate than other elite QBs of his time.

2. Look at his pass attempts...my god. His bulk stats are impressive, but he's had hundreds more attempts than others. Literally hundreds.


Off topic here but:

3. Am I the only one who thinks how he performs this year without Payton will have a big impact on his legacy? Him and Payton have put up sick records together, Brees has looked different without him though.


1. Not true. His interception % is the same as Peyton Manning's.

2. This would only matter if his production didn't match his pass attempts. Since it does and it's a formula that has led to a Super Bowl then criticism of it is stupid. Consider that he only averages 1.2 more pass attempts a game than Peyton Manning.

3. His performance? He had a bad start but he has picked himself up these last 2 games. He's on pace for 5500+ yards and 44+ touchdowns. His completion % is low but it'll obviously improve as the season goes by.

He has led the league in completion % 3 times, yards 3 times, touchdowns 3 times and Quarterback rating once.

Show some respect.
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onepostlegend


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wislakrak wrote:
I think Brees could be a Top 10 QB, but the thing holding him back are those 5 years of average QB play until he went to NOLA. His years with the Saints have been Top 10 worthy, just his time in San Diego wasn't all that good.


Drew Brees played at a Pro Bowl level his last two years in San Diego. Check the stats. He put up a 27/7 104.8 passer rating in 2004...
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