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If Browns go 0-7; I Think Shurmur is Fired Immediately
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1
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fatpig


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1


ugh. i couldn't disagree more with this train of thought. success breeds success. being the worst in the league won't do anything for us even if it means we get the 1st overall pick. i'd take wins and momentum to establish a culture of winning, even if its just a few games, over continuing the culture of suck just for the sake of sucking and getting a high draft pick, who will then join a demoralized team.

i'm on the fire Shurmur wagon. disliked him last year, dislike him more now. Haslam will put the hammer down to make it known that one's job is not safe if they are terrible at what they do.
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Dawgpoun8017


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpig wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1


ugh. i couldn't disagree more with this train of thought. success breeds success. being the worst in the league won't do anything for us even if it means we get the 1st overall pick. i'd take wins and momentum to establish a culture of winning, even if its just a few games, over continuing the culture of suck just for the sake of sucking and getting a high draft pick, who will then join a demoralized team.

i'm on the fire Shurmur wagon. disliked him last year, dislike him more now. Haslam will put the hammer down to make it known that one's job is not safe if they are terrible at what they do.


How'd that work out for us when we won our last 4 when mangini was here
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fatpig


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
fatpig wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1


ugh. i couldn't disagree more with this train of thought. success breeds success. being the worst in the league won't do anything for us even if it means we get the 1st overall pick. i'd take wins and momentum to establish a culture of winning, even if its just a few games, over continuing the culture of suck just for the sake of sucking and getting a high draft pick, who will then join a demoralized team.

i'm on the fire Shurmur wagon. disliked him last year, dislike him more now. Haslam will put the hammer down to make it known that one's job is not safe if they are terrible at what they do.


How'd that work out for us when we won our last 4 when mangini was here


i had fun watching those games, did you? or would you rather have watched the team suck for those games

it didn't work that time. doesn't mean that winning isn't good for an organization.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fsubrowns9510 wrote:

Who?


Winn (rookie, 6th) was a starter.
Hughes (rookie, 3rd) was rotated.
Fort, Stephens, Kitchen and Robertson (UDFA) all rotated.
Wade (7th) was rotated and #2 after Patterson's injury.
Skrine (5th) started.
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Kathouse Sticks


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the A) Pros of hiring Jon Gruden versus the B) Cons of hiring Jon Gruden, if that were to happen?

And also, does Bill Cowher have any bearing on the discussion of a new Browns coach?

Thanks!
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Ether


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
fatpig wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1


ugh. i couldn't disagree more with this train of thought. success breeds success. being the worst in the league won't do anything for us even if it means we get the 1st overall pick. i'd take wins and momentum to establish a culture of winning, even if its just a few games, over continuing the culture of suck just for the sake of sucking and getting a high draft pick, who will then join a demoralized team.

i'm on the fire Shurmur wagon. disliked him last year, dislike him more now. Haslam will put the hammer down to make it known that one's job is not safe if they are terrible at what they do.


How'd that work out for us when we won our last 4 when mangini was here


I'm still kinda fond of that season following that one though.
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fsubrowns9510


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
fsubrowns9510 wrote:

Who?


Winn (rookie, 6th) was a starter.
Hughes (rookie, 3rd) was rotated.
Fort, Stephens, Kitchen and Robertson (UDFA) all rotated.
Wade (7th) was rotated and #2 after Patterson's injury.
Skrine (5th) started.


I know alot of guys rotated but we've seen that situation for a long time.

The bulk of your starters were supposed starters to begin with. Its time for them to make plays.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpig wrote:

i had fun watching those games, did you? or would you rather have watched the team suck for those games


I'll preface this by saying I always root for the Browns to win, always.

How many wins from last season would you trade for Andrew Luck?
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kathouse Sticks wrote:
What are the A) Pros of hiring Jon Gruden versus the B) Cons of hiring Jon Gruden, if that were to happen?

And also, does Bill Cowher have any bearing on the discussion of a new Browns coach?

Thanks!


A) You get an experienced coach, a Super Bowl champion and a well respected coach

B) He was average for much of the last decade. He had a losing record after winning the Super Bowl, he never developed a QB who was a long term answer and instead bounced around them.

From 2003 starting QB's for Tampa Bay:

Brad Johnson
Brian Griese
Chris Simms
Tim Rattay
Bruce Gradkowski
Luke McCown
Jeff Garcia

Not exactly a list of winners.

His greatest success came from a roster that someone else developed with one of the decade's great defensive coordinator's on the team.

And Bill Cowher has no bearing, He was gone from Pittsburgh by the time Haslam arrived and has shown no real interest in coming back to coach.
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Drew_Carey


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
fatpig wrote:

i had fun watching those games, did you? or would you rather have watched the team suck for those games


I'll preface this by saying I always root for the Browns to win, always.

How many wins from last season would you trade for Andrew Luck?


I can be honest... All of them.
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SOCALBrowns


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpig wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
Why bother firing him? I mean, it wouldn't accomplish anything. Even if it sparked us what would it mean but missing out on the #1


ugh. i couldn't disagree more with this train of thought. success breeds success. being the worst in the league won't do anything for us even if it means we get the 1st overall pick. i'd take wins and momentum to establish a culture of winning, even if its just a few games, over continuing the culture of suck just for the sake of sucking and getting a high draft pick, who will then join a demoralized team.

i'm on the fire Shurmur wagon. disliked him last year, dislike him more now. Haslam will put the hammer down to make it known that one's job is not safe if they are terrible at what they do.


Couldnt agree more. Success breeds success and this owner is not going to be averse to blowing things up. You will not be "patient" with a billion dollar investment just because you feel bad for a guy like Shurmur. He will bring in a proven winner. Someone whos demeanor and presence resembles his own. Shurmur is a coordinator at best - lacks the personality, leadership or motivation necessary to be a winning head coach.

Holmgren picked him because he came from the same coaching tree and had the same agent. What else he saw in him I don't know.

If I have to hear one more time how the team "battled" or so and so "battled" I think I will throw up just a little in my mouth. I'm sick of that. This is football for God's sake and its about W's. I dont care what anyone on here thinks about the "process" or how young and inexperienced this team is. We are 3 years into the Holmgren experience. Time to get W's - thats what this game is about. 0-5 just doesnt cut it no matter how much the team battles.

W's people W's. Find a coach and players that can bring W's to Cleveland.
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NateDawg


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew_Carey wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
fatpig wrote:

i had fun watching those games, did you? or would you rather have watched the team suck for those games


I'll preface this by saying I always root for the Browns to win, always.

How many wins from last season would you trade for Andrew Luck?


I can be honest... All of them.


Same.

Likewise, do you think Colts fan regret having an abysmal 1997 season, or do you think they wish they had gone 6-10 instead, missing out on Peyton Manning?

I think they'd trade the losses that season for the dozens that Manning gave them, along with a Super Bowl.

With that said, I am tired of losing. If we can turn things around and put wins up there with players that can build around, and start turning the losing culture around, I'm all for it. This city needs something to get excited about. And I don't mean the excitement of yet another top 5 draft pick.
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bungleodeon


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NateDawg wrote:
Drew_Carey wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
fatpig wrote:

i had fun watching those games, did you? or would you rather have watched the team suck for those games


I'll preface this by saying I always root for the Browns to win, always.

How many wins from last season would you trade for Andrew Luck?


I can be honest... All of them.


Same.

Likewise, do you think Colts fan regret having an abysmal 1997 season, or do you think they wish they had gone 6-10 instead, missing out on Peyton Manning?

I think they'd trade the losses that season for the dozens that Manning gave them, along with a Super Bowl.

With that said, I am tired of losing. If we can turn things around and put wins up there with players that can build around, and start turning the losing culture around, I'm all for it. This city needs something to get excited about. And I don't mean the excitement of yet another top 5 draft pick.


tbh though it's kind of cherry picking. You think the Rams wouldn't have liked an extra win, lost out on Bradford and landed Suh? Maybe maybe not. Raiders miss out on Russel with an extra win or 2?

I don't see anyone anywhere near the prospect level of Luck or Manning. Just saying. Look at guys like Eli Manning and Alex Smith. Both are having successful careers right now, but had we landed them we probably would have had them both run out of town due to their average beginnings. I'd rather we just focus on winning because I'm suck of rooting for a complete embarrassment of a football team. If we end up with the 4th overall pick and we can't land an impact player, that's just sad.

I know both of you said you will always root for us to win, and I totally agree, but I would rather us win a few games and not worry about whether or not we have the #1 pick, than secretly hope we lose so we can get it. If Luck or Manning were in this draft, I would probably have a different opinion. I don't think any of the current QB prospects are on that level. I'm not even as impressed with any of them as RG3.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bungleodeon wrote:
I'm not even as impressed with any of them as RG3.


What has Geno Smith not done that RG3 did?

Heck, Geno Smith has played in multiple offenses and learned different play books.

And for what its worth, I dont secretly root for us to lose, I always want us to win, even when it is detrimental. However, I don't see a reason to fire Shurmur mid-season and replace him with a guy who won't be our long term answer at HC
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