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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 26598
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
It would seem to me that those fans who speak out to improve the organization are better, more passionate fans than those who care so little that they don't even recognize the problem. If you owned a billion dollar corporation, would you want a bunch of yes men on the board of directors? Or, would you want people who would strive to improve the organization even if they say things you may not want to hear?


Slam, please point out one poster who has said that Jerry Jones is a great GM.

Nobody is saying he isn't a problem. There are some who hope that the team can win in spite of him. What's wrong with having that hope? It doesn't make you blind, or stupid, or whatever other name you feel like throwing out there.
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me227


Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 1039
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
me227 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
Des, we ARE realists. That's not offensive. What is offensive is when somebody makes a realistic observation about the team and he gets attacked for it. This is a Dallas Cowboys forum and posters cannot even comment on Jerry Jones without militant backlash. WTF??? He's the owner and GM. He puts himself at the front of the organization. Of course he's going to be a major topic of conversation. What the hell do people expect? Do people really expect 16 years of failure and the GM's name not to come up? A lot? Seriously, if the Steelers, eagles, pats, packers, etc had the same 16 years of failure with the same GM... You don't think their threads wouldn't be full of GM references? He's the bloody GM people. Talking about him is pretty much fair in ANY thread... No different than bringing up the head coach is to be expected in ANY cowboys related thread.

It's a shame that people are either so sensitive or so accepting of failure.


I understand why people hate Cowboys fans. Cowboys fans are spoiled by success in the past, so the expect it in in the present. News flash, there are 31 other teams in the league. There are 13 teams in the league who have never been to a Super Bowl or have never won one and they are happier than most Cowboys Fans. There are people who have been fans of teams for 50 years and have never seen their team win a Super Bowl. I am 25 and have seen my team win 3 Super Bowls. There are some older posters on this forum who may have seen not only the glory days of the 90's but the teams who went to the NFC Championships in the 80's and maybe the Super Bowls of the 70's. Be realistic, in my lifetime no team has won more Super Bowls than my team. My friends and family who are Chiefs, Jets, Vikings, Bengals, and Eagles fans have never seen their team win won, yet they are not as hateful towards their team. Have we had a lot of success lately? No, but you know what, those fans of other teams wish they would have 1 playoff win in 16 years if it meant they won 3 Super Bowls in the previous 4 years.


2 questions:

1. Would your friends and family be some accepting of their teams failures if there had been no change at the upper management level despite 16 years of failure? Seriously, if team ownership just let the same GM continue sucking after 16 years... you don't think they'd voice an opinion on the subject??? If your answer to that question is "no," will you please introduce me to your friends and family? I've got some stuff that I really want to sell them.

2. If people who are realistic about the organization really just "hate" the cowboys, why do you think they are emotionally vested into changing the cowboys for the better? It would seem to me that those fans who speak out to improve the organization are better, more passionate fans than those who care so little that they don't even recognize the problem. If you owned a billion dollar corporation, would you want a bunch of yes men on the board of directors? Or, would you want people who would strive to improve the organization even if they say things you may not want to hear?


Question 1. Did Parcells have a large input when it came to personal on this team? Did Wade Phillips have a hand in the input of who was a part of this team? Does Jason Garrett have large say in what happens with this team? Does Stephen Jones have a power to make decisions on this team? If you answer yes to any of these questions that means there has been change. Jerry Jones hasn't picked each and every player to put on the roster in the last 16 years, he hasn't hand picked every coach on the staff in the last 16 years. However, according to you there is 0 change from October of 1996 to October of 2012.

Answer 2. There is a difference between speaking out to improve the organization and getting on a forum that has no ties to the team and spew hate towards anything and everything Jerry Jones. Let me ask you something, in the last 16 years have you: Purchased any merchandise, clothing, etc of the Dallas Cowboys? Have you worn any Cowboys clothing or hats? Have you attended a Cowboys game or event such as Training Camp? Have you watched or listened to a game in the last 16 years? Because if you are honest with yourself and "really want to make a difference" and want to teach Jerry and the Evil Empire a lesson then you wouldn't have done a single one of these things.
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The_Slamman


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

me227 wrote:
Question 1. Did Parcells have a large input when it came to personal on this team? Did Wade Phillips have a hand in the input of who was a part of this team? Does Jason Garrett have large say in what happens with this team? Does Stephen Jones have a power to make decisions on this team? If you answer yes to any of these questions that means there has been change. Jerry Jones hasn't picked each and every player to put on the roster in the last 16 years, he hasn't hand picked every coach on the staff in the last 16 years. However, according to you there is 0 change from October of 1996 to October of 2012.

Answer 2. There is a difference between speaking out to improve the organization and getting on a forum that has no ties to the team and spew hate towards anything and everything Jerry Jones. Let me ask you something, in the last 16 years have you: Purchased any merchandise, clothing, etc of the Dallas Cowboys? Have you worn any Cowboys clothing or hats? Have you attended a Cowboys game or event such as Training Camp? Have you watched or listened to a game in the last 16 years? Because if you are honest with yourself and "really want to make a difference" and want to teach Jerry and the Evil Empire a lesson then you wouldn't have done a single one of these things.


See, this is a perfect example of why I feel it is my duty on this forum to educate people about Jerry Jones. It's really said that people don't understand the roll of upper management. Me227, over the past 16 years there have been 6 HCs but only 1 GM. At a certain point, wouldn't ANY rational fan base blame the GM? Isn't it appropriate to blame the GM when EVERYTHING else in the organization failed?

Apparently you are too chicken to actually answer my questions for real. It's cool though. It's the same short sighted thinking that has really caused this forum to go downhill... Oh no. Somebody criticized the GM of a team that has only won one playoff game in 16 years. Heaven forbid. Lets attack!!! Rolling Eyes
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
It would seem to me that those fans who speak out to improve the organization are better, more passionate fans than those who care so little that they don't even recognize the problem. If you owned a billion dollar corporation, would you want a bunch of yes men on the board of directors? Or, would you want people who would strive to improve the organization even if they say things you may not want to hear?


Slam, please point out one poster who has said that Jerry Jones is a great GM.

Nobody is saying he isn't a problem. There are some who hope that the team can win in spite of him. What's wrong with having that hope? It doesn't make you blind, or stupid, or whatever other name you feel like throwing out there.


Des, there are about 4-5 posters who militantly support GM no matter what happens. If you really must know, TO7, Matts, ht, and WW94 are the ones who are the most militant. What I mean by militant is that they are very combative in their unyielding support. For example, there was an article written wherein the premise was that Jerry as the GM of the Cowboys should be less concerned with victoria secret, papa johns commercial, and stripper poles and more concerned with studying film, team strategy etc. 90% of the forum would agree with the article. The other 10% just does nothing but make excuses for the guy or attacks the writer of the article instead of recognizing the point she makes... "she's just bitter cause she never went to prom." Fine. She didn't go to prom, but she still makes a damn good point. They don't care. They will defend him at all costs.

And Des, if everybody agreed that Jerry was a problem, why the hell is there so much discord if a poster points out that Jerry is a problem. I hope you understand what you are saying makes no sense at all. If everybody agreed Jerry is a problem, nobody would get there panties in a bunch every time someone is critical of him.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's amusing Slam is taking my word militant and trying to use it. It's also nice to know I can't have my own opinion. I will be sure to check in with you before I comment on anything.
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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look...the main point of my post stands. Stick to football, debate opposing viewpoints respectfully and without petty insult. If we can't warnings will be issued.
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People should read this again and again and again.
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