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GDT Wk 5: Denver Broncos @ New England Patriots (4.25pm EST)
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JRebar913


Joined: 11 Mar 2012
Posts: 989
Location: Kansas City
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
JRebar913 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
Most of us predicted us to struggle early on, we are against good teams, and now people are freaking out. Relax. We lost to arguably the three best teams in the league while keeping it close. This isn't a bad team, it's a team playing a BRUTAL schedule early on.

Anyway, I don't know why Hillman is getting ragged on. My god, the guy didn't convert a third and one, he must be the worst RB ever with no time or room to improve himself. Hey that Peyton Manning cat did pretty bad that first year of his, I bet he turned out awful.

Let's all step back from the ledge and see what happens in the next 3 or 4 games.


I think you'll find this funny 67 but most of the over reaction is coming from those that predicted 12+ wins.

Ya think maybe they set the bar too high? Wink


when did being critical of the obvious flaws of this team become over reacting? there is no easy schedule in the nfl, quit saying that garbage.


Yeah, whatever.


nice response, im sure you thought long and hard about that.
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JRebar913


Joined: 11 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2012/10/08/patriots-huddle-relies-power-one/Zg7Q6OtjvEAuKqfyWu3DfK/story.html

how the patriots move so quickly Sad
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BroncoinGermany


Joined: 09 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JRebar913 wrote:
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2012/10/08/patriots-huddle-relies-power-one/Zg7Q6OtjvEAuKqfyWu3DfK/story.html

how the patriots move so quickly Sad


Interesting article. I really must start watching Oregon. As I am not a college football nerd, that's my gap in education.
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brassglobos


Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JRebar913 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
JRebar913 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
Most of us predicted us to struggle early on, we are against good teams, and now people are freaking out. Relax. We lost to arguably the three best teams in the league while keeping it close. This isn't a bad team, it's a team playing a BRUTAL schedule early on.

Anyway, I don't know why Hillman is getting ragged on. My god, the guy didn't convert a third and one, he must be the worst RB ever with no time or room to improve himself. Hey that Peyton Manning cat did pretty bad that first year of his, I bet he turned out awful.

Let's all step back from the ledge and see what happens in the next 3 or 4 games.


I think you'll find this funny 67 but most of the over reaction is coming from those that predicted 12+ wins.

Ya think maybe they set the bar too high? Wink


when did being critical of the obvious flaws of this team become over reacting? there is no easy schedule in the nfl, quit saying that garbage.


Yeah, whatever.


nice response, im sure you thought long and hard about that.


Not that I speak for AKRNA, but when someone says "there is no easy schedule in the nfl, quit saying that garbage," it's hard to have a serious debate.

Why would he want to get into a debate with someone that can't even acknowledge that we've had the hardest opening 5 weeks of the season? No one said there is an easy schedule in the NFL. But there are definitely some that are harder than others. Tell me what other teams have faced HOU, ATL, and NE? I'll give you a hint, NONE.

Our 3 loses are against 3 of the top 5 teams in the NFL right now. What does this mean? We are not elite with them right now. Does that all of the sudden mean we suck? No. Do we have a chance to make any noise in the playoffs/makes the playoffs? Absolutely.

We have an elite QB and 13 more weeks for this team to gel. If anyone thought this team was going to win 11+ games with a new QB and DC, that's called a pipe dream. Most of use saw the flaws before the season started. That coupled with a tough schedule, does not equal a recipe for success early on.

So from those of us that predicted a rough start, some people, including you, are over reacting.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brassglobos wrote:
JRebar913 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
JRebar913 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
Most of us predicted us to struggle early on, we are against good teams, and now people are freaking out. Relax. We lost to arguably the three best teams in the league while keeping it close. This isn't a bad team, it's a team playing a BRUTAL schedule early on.

Anyway, I don't know why Hillman is getting ragged on. My god, the guy didn't convert a third and one, he must be the worst RB ever with no time or room to improve himself. Hey that Peyton Manning cat did pretty bad that first year of his, I bet he turned out awful.

Let's all step back from the ledge and see what happens in the next 3 or 4 games.


I think you'll find this funny 67 but most of the over reaction is coming from those that predicted 12+ wins.

Ya think maybe they set the bar too high? Wink


when did being critical of the obvious flaws of this team become over reacting? there is no easy schedule in the nfl, quit saying that garbage.


Yeah, whatever.


nice response, im sure you thought long and hard about that.


Not that I speak for AKRNA, but when someone says "there is no easy schedule in the nfl, quit saying that garbage," it's hard to have a serious debate.

Why would he want to get into a debate with someone that can't even acknowledge that we've had the hardest opening 5 weeks of the season? No one said there is an easy schedule in the NFL. But there are definitely some that are harder than others. Tell me what other teams have faced HOU, ATL, and NE? I'll give you a hint, NONE.

Our 3 loses are against 3 of the top 5 teams in the NFL right now. What does this mean? We are not elite with them right now. Does that all of the sudden mean we suck? No. Do we have a chance to make any noise in the playoffs/makes the playoffs? Absolutely.

We have an elite QB and 13 more weeks for this team to gel. If anyone thought this team was going to win 11+ games with a new QB and DC, that's called a pipe dream. Most of use saw the flaws before the season started. That coupled with a tough schedule, does not equal a recipe for success early on.

So from those of us that predicted a rough start, some people, including you, are over reacting.


Actually, you summed up my thought process quite well. Pretty pointless to discuss a "rant". Wink
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BroncoinGermany


Joined: 09 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am wondering how teams can actually defend the Kellyian Patriots offense? As modern defenses are reliant on sub-packages and specific personnel based on down and distance, I really can't think of a good way how to attack a fastly operating Patriots offense. One basically needs 11 complete defenders who can defend the run just as good as the pass, and that on all levels of the defense. That is impossible. So teams have to rotate their role players. Yet they don't get the time to do so once a good offense is that fast paced. How do teams try to defend Oregon at the college level? How could NFL defenses defend Brady and the Pats in a quick no-huddle offense?
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jolly red giant


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can you stop it - hit people really hard and hit them very often - don't let receivers move from the LOS - don't let TEs get down the field - knock the offense completely out of its stride.
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JRebar913


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jolly red giant wrote:
How can you stop it - hit people really hard and hit them very often - don't let receivers move from the LOS - don't let TEs get down the field - knock the offense completely out of its stride.


the same way the patriots stopped manning back before the rules change, punch them in the mouth at the line.
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 17417
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JRebar913 wrote:
jolly red giant wrote:
How can you stop it - hit people really hard and hit them very often - don't let receivers move from the LOS - don't let TEs get down the field - knock the offense completely out of its stride.


the same way the patriots stopped manning back before the rules change, punch them in the mouth at the line.
Which is fine on the outside but when Welker is playing off the ball you can't press him.
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lomaxgr


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st quarter all 22 notes :-

* 1st drive and Orlando Franklin gives us a QB hit on a simple disguised blitz. Jermaine Cunningham is stood up outside of Franklin, with Jerod Mayo in his usual Nickel LB positioning. Cunningham makes out like he is running a wide arc when really he is in man coverage on the RB, whilst Mayo attacks the B gap. Franklin goes to engage Cunningham and Mayo is allowed a free roam into the backfield. Manning throws it away, but it is awful recognition from Franklin.

* We went after Spikes early big time on this opening drive by lining Tamme up in the backfield to try and get man coverage on him. We even tried Bay Bay aligned as the HB next to Manning in Shotgun (motioned there).

* Heck of a read, angle and tackle by Rahim Moore on that 3 yard tackle for a loss on the Pats 1st drive. He is in man coverage on Danny Woodhead but comes from 10 yards off the LOS to make that play.

* You can really notice the length of Chandler Jones from the endzone view. Obviously helps in the passing game, but it is really hard to get to his chest in the run game. Clady hasn't moved him off the LOS once 6 mins into the quarter.

* Annnd Franklin is beat again for the 3rd down sack of Manning. Patriots are bringing 6, but we have Lance Ball into block so we need to be 'hat on a hat'. Everyone other than Franklin is correct in their protection assignment. After letting Mayo breeze up the B gap on the last drive, Franklin goes to block the inside man who is already being blocked by Ramirez. Ninkovich (sp) is therefore allowed to run the arc on Franklin and get to Peyton. Doesn't help that Ball whiffs on his man up the gut (Mayo).

* On that play Joe Mays got hurt, why were we in our base 4-3 against the Patriots 3 WR 2 TE package? That is inexcusable considering none of our base LB's can play man coverage. Von Miller is asked to cover Wes Welker 1v1; no contest, 12 yard gain.

* And then we go to Nickel against the Pats 2 WR 2 TE 1 RB look and the Pats run for 7 on 1st down ... Awful personnel management early on here. That said - Derek Wolfe does a real nice job holding up against the double team but Wesley Woodyard for some reason just doesn't fill the gap and attack the play. He shouldn't be worried about Play Action; he is responsible for the RB anyway, so he should be going downhill on that play. The Patriots have us stuck in our Nickel vs their 2 WR 2 TE 1 RB (Ace) package. So what do they do? Run it down our throat 3 times in a row.

* Make that 4 times in 5 plays, and we are getting absolutely mauled at the LOS and Von is still on the sideline because the Pats are running no huddle to take advantage of the clear personnel mismatch. The key on the Ridley counter run that goes for 15 is Kevin Vickerson. He is put on the floor by the double team so quickly that it allows the Patriots Center to get to the 2nd tier on Danny Trevathan (who is so out of his depth against this no huddle attack). Ridley isn't touched by a Bronco until he is 12 yards down field. I can't stress how poor our personnel management was to let this Defense get on the field. We disrespected the Patriot running game by allowing WW and Trevathan to be put in a Nickel package against an Ace personnel. Awful.

* Pats finally huddle and we get Joe Mays back on the field. Fair play to WW - he sheds a block from a pulling Guard and makes a tackle for no gain.

* Love Champ, but on that Lloyd 3rd down conversion before the Welker TD, he was playing way too far off. Go get after Lloyd because he is way too smooth if you don't get in and around him. Oh, and don't let any Patriot fan tell you that Chandler Jones was the only one getting held. Kevin Vickerson beat Logan Mankins and was about to pressure Brady before Mankins just yanked him back ...



* Chris Harris gets caught looking into the backfield on the TD. He sees Mankins pull and Brady go to hand off the ball and he totally forgets about his coverage (Welker). With Safety help (single Safety in middle of the field) you play with outside coverage, and Harris lets Welker beat him towards the numbers. Game over.

* We aren't moving Kyle Love off the LOS. That said, neither him or Wilfork are doing anything in the passing game. Utter non factors in that department so far.

* On 3rd and 3 the Patriots put Jones at LE to test Franklin. The latter did just enough on that one handed grab play by Thomas, but half a second longer and Jones was in Manning's face.

* The following play the Pats tried Cunningham at DT. Great recognition by Franklin and Ramirez. Ramirez came off the double team early as he realised it wasn't needed on the 255lbs Cunningham. Ramirez got straight to the 2nd level on Mayo and the play went for 7. It would have gone for more but Koppen showed too much respect to Wilfork, and was late coming off the double team. We called the exact same play against the same look the next play. This time Beadles came off Wilfork too early and Vince disrupted the play to force 3rd and 1.
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lomaxgr


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2nd quarter all 22 notes :-

* Manning has a wide open TD to Tamme on the first play of the quarter. The Pats are in Cover 3 and we have both Tamme and Dreessen aligned to tight to the left of our formation. Dreessen (closest to Clady) runs a post route that sucks in the outside CB, leaving Tamme all alone on the left touchline after running his wheel route. Manning is looking to the total opposite side of the formation and misses it.

* Is Gronkowski hurt? This is not athlete I saw last year. We are happy to leave WW in man coverage against him on 3rd down and he isn't seperating other than when WW gave him a free release (by accident ...)

* Yes gap control is important when trying to stop zone runs, but so is interior penetration from the play side in my opinion. We all saw the play that Vickerson blew through the Center/Guard double team. Both turned when he blew through which not only gives Vick a play on the ball carrier, but it freed up WW to make a play for no gain. Had Vick not blown through the line, the Center would have got to WW and we are talking about a totally different play.

* This is the worst I have seen Justin Bannan play this year. He is totally gassed by this New England no huddle Offense. On the floor within a second of the ball being snapped against the Patriot double team.

* Rahim Moore feels the run game so much better this year. Much more awareness on the field.

* Lloyd is working Champ. Even on throws that aren't going to Lloyd; he is getting open.

* He hasn't shown me anything as a pass rusher (hasn't all year to be frank), but I think Derek Wolfe has had a good game so far in the run game. The Patriots are struggling to move him both as a DE and as a DT.

* Champ wasn't happy with Rahim Moore on that diving Lloyd catch to the 1. We were playing Cover 1 with Moore being the deep Safety. Champ showed him inside towards Moore, but that is a tough play for Moore to make when the ball is out of Brady's hand that quick. I think Champ has to do a little more to re-route Lloyd if he wants help that quickly. Good read as ever by Brady, it must be said.

* Every time the Patriots use Cunningham at DT we are running the ball. If you want proof of how smart Manning is just watch the 1st down play with 7 mins 50 left in the 2nd. He reads the coverage, sees Spikes is in man coverage vs Dreessen who is aligned inline outside of Ryan Clady. Not wanting to go away from a favourable Defensive look for a run play (Cunningham at DT), Manning waves to Dreessen to motion out into the slot, and of course Spikes follows him. This takes Spikes out of the run play that follows for an 8 yard gain. Fair play to Joel - he actually dominates Spikes from the slot too.

* There goes Franklin getting pancaked on a quick throw ... Trevor Scott this time. Ron Brace is playing on this series. I say playing - he looks very bad out there.

* There goes Vick again with the penetration against the zone run. This time he makes the tackle himself for a 4 yard loss.

* On the Pats final drive of the half, we used Dumervil at DT for a few plays, with Wolfe at LE and Miller at RE. Not a great deal of success with it, but that was more to do with the backend really. Joe Mays isn't going to cover Gronk 1v1; I don't care how hurt Gronk is.

* Patriots killed us when we took Vick out of Nickel package in the run game and they had their 3 WR 1 TE 1 RB package out there.

* I would be intrigued to see Von Miller's snap count from the 1st half. Seemed he wasn't out there as much as he normally is. One thing stayed the same - the man is just unblockable. He gave it to both Vollmer and Solder all half. His bullrush that pancaked Solder near the Patriots goal line just shows how complete of a pass rusher he is, and it was the same move that decked Wayne Hunter on TNF against the Jets last year. Fake the speed rush to the outside then BOOM - punch the Tackle in the chest whilst he is trying to cut off the arc. If that isn't Tom Brady back there, Miller would have had a field day.
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Donut


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:

* Love Champ, but on that Lloyd 3rd down conversion before the Welker TD, he was playing way too far off. Go get after Lloyd because he is way too smooth if you don't get in and around him. Oh, and don't let any Patriot fan tell you that Chandler Jones was the only one getting held. Kevin Vickerson beat Logan Mankins and was about to pressure Brady before Mankins just yanked him back ...


I dont think any have claimed only Jones getting held. I noted a lot of holding happened in the game and the complaint is Jones gets put in some text book holds and doesnt get flags(not specifically this game but the whole season).
lomaxgr wrote:

* We aren't moving Kyle Love off the LOS. That said, neither him or Wilfork are doing anything in the passing game. Utter non factors in that department so far.

Love is very mediocre. Would love to replace him as a starter w/ a good DT in the draft. ITs the main reason we're kicking Cunningham inside on passing downs. Though I wanted Cunningham starting at LE but hard to make the argument after Nink's game.
lomaxgr wrote:

* Is Gronkowski hurt? This is not athlete I saw last year. We are happy to leave WW in man coverage against him on 3rd down and he isn't seperating other than when WW gave him a free release (by accident ...)

He hurt his hip in practice 2 weeks ago, IIRC. I'd love to give him time to heal since he's reportedly hurt and its bothering him. But couldn't w/ 1/2 our TEs being injured.

Though in stats after and from watching Manning absolutely abused Sterling Moore(It was 6 targets and 6 completions for 100+ yrds IIRC) until he was taken out for Dennard which he attacked him and he made some mistakes(On the Tamme crossing field when he was wide open and Manning missed him). On another occasion Chung bailed out Dennard because Dressen was blocking and it was man cov.
lomaxgr wrote:

* There goes Franklin getting pancaked on a quick throw ... Trevor Scott this time. Ron Brace is playing on this series. I say playing - he looks very bad out there.

Him or Deaderick will probably end up getting released when Pryor is healthy.
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AntiSuperstar


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
Him or Deaderick will probably end up getting released when Pryor is healthy.


Why? Has Deaderick been worse this year?
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lomaxgr


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rd quarter all 22 notes :-

* On the Patriots first drive of the half we forced 3rd and 7 and we went with a 3-3-5 look. Normally Mike Adams comes down into the box to play as a LB in this package, but Leonhard did on this occasion and played man coverage vs Danny Woodhead. We bracketed Welker with a hi-low concept (Moore over the top, Harris underneath) and let Branch comes across the middle of the field with Woodyard and Mays playing the hook zones. It worked well, and we got a coverage sack from it.

* Twice we got caught on the Pats second drive of trying to get Dumervil to the weakside of the formation against no huddle. The result was Dumervil caught twice in no mans land half way across our formation, meaning we had no RE ... Just lineup and play Football in that situation.

* We tried the same personnel in a 3-3-5 on 3rd down on the Patriots 2nd possession, but with a different look and different outcome (Pats 1st down). Our 3 Lineman were Miller at LE, Ayers over the Center and Dumervil at RE (the only one with his hand in the ground). This time we showed a look with Moore as a deep Safety with Adams in the box (over Gronkowski) and Leonhard outside of Dumervil showing blitz. This is against the Pats 3 WR 1 RB 1 TE package.

We ended up sending both Adams and Harris on the blitz from our left and Leonhard from the right. Dumervil dropped back into a shallow zone coverage. This left Mays in man coverage vs Gronk and Woodyard in man coverage on Welker. We generated quick pressure up the A gap (Miller) but Gronk got a free release and caught the easiest 5 yard out route with a few yards after the catch for the easiest 1st down you will ever see. Nice play design, but you can't let the TE have a free release like that.

* And of course, the Patriots keep us in our 3-3-5 by going no huddle and then run for 12 yards on 1st down. We managed to quickly sub for the next play with Unrein and Vickerson coming in, but our guys are just all over the show with the quick subs that the Pats run twice more for a total of 12 yards and a 1st down.

* The Pats have done their homework. They know how we like to have our DE crash inside to try and bring the Tackle with him, leaving a free run to the QB for a blitzing Chris Harris. This play with 8 mins left in the 3rd must be the 4th time I have seen Harris blitz for no positive result. Logan Mankins simply takes Dumervil, with Nate Solder picking up the blitzing Harris. Welker is left with a free release and Rahim Moore is 10 yards away from him. Another easy 1st down.

* Finally we are starting to see us utilise a Safety down in the intermediate areas of the field. Why play 2 deep Safeties against this Patriot team? Rahim Moore is starting to play a lot more bracket coverage on Welker, and it forces Brady to take a deep shot to Lloyd, who is being perfectly bracketed by Bailey.

* This (so far) is the easiest game Tracy Porter must have played as a Pro. Deion Branch is a good blocker, but he cannot seperate whatsoever any more.

* Nate Irving in for Von Miller at SLB on three of plays in our redzone. I like Nate at the POA in the preseason. He didn't get budged by Fells or Gronk at the LOS.

* Franklin did get beat for the strip sack fumble, but Manning held the ball too long. There wasn't anything open downfield so he either has to take off or just protect the ball.

* Again Mays gets caught trying to take steps forward when he is in man coverage of a RB. Just move lateral and engage the RB about 3 yards upfield - you don't have to bump in the backfield ... Easy DPI call.

* For the Steven Ridley TD off a toss play, I actually saw Brandon Lloyd go and block someone on a crack back block. And it was Keith Brooking too ... Nice play design, but poor contain by Derek Wolfe.

* What a throw that deep ball was to Thomas. Thomas was only just breaking open from the CB when Manning released it, and the FS wasn't in a terrible position to break on the ball. Manning couldn't have lead Thomas any better.

* Dan Koppen got humbled by Wilfork down at the 1 yard line. Koppen was 3 yards into our backfield before McGahee even got near the LOS.

* Tracy, Tracy, Tracy ... 3rd and 12 and he gives Brady such an easy reception across the middle for a 1st. You have to faith that Branch is going to beat you deep; get tight on him. I guess that is a result of the two TD's he gave up vs Houston. (this was at the start of the 4th)
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Donut


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
Donut wrote:
Him or Deaderick will probably end up getting released when Pryor is healthy.


Why? Has Deaderick been worse this year?

He's had 2 snaps against Den and 13 vs Cards and 16 vs Tenn. W/o an injury his snaps have been decreasing(Brace continued to get snaps). Bequette and Francis are only ones not getting snaps and both are rooks at DE(I think BB won't want to risk losing them). Also add in the fact he seems to have to be disciplined in house in the past he might get the axe. But health matters we could cut Carpenter again or even Fells/Hoomanawanui.
lomaxgr wrote:

* What a throw that deep ball was to Thomas. Thomas was only just breaking open from the CB when Manning released it, and the FS wasn't in a terrible position to break on the ball. Manning couldn't have lead Thomas any better.

Was the S Chung or Wilson?
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