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Calvin Johnson Will Not Even Come Close to Jerry Rice.
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 8911
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Calvin Johnson Will Not Even Come Close to Jerry Rice. Reply with quote

AmerigoCorleone wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
And Jerry Rice had two of the greatest QB of all-time throwing him the ball. How this isn't taken into account is beyond me?


It was a different era. Joe Montana averaged 22.8 touchdowns and 211.2 yards per 16 game regular season. Steve Young averaged 22.0 touchdowns and 196.0 yards per 16 game regular season.

So even though Matt Stafford is nowhere near them from an ability standpoint, from a statistical standpoint Calvin Johnson actually has the advantage since he plays in a much more pass happy league.


ahh i get it 1 year in pass happy league with a qb that is good> being with 2 HOF qbs in a non pass happy league.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Calvin Johnson Will Not Even Come Close to Jerry Rice. Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
AmerigoCorleone wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
And Jerry Rice had two of the greatest QB of all-time throwing him the ball. How this isn't taken into account is beyond me?


It was a different era. Joe Montana averaged 22.8 touchdowns and 211.2 yards per 16 game regular season. Steve Young averaged 22.0 touchdowns and 196.0 yards per 16 game regular season.

So even though Matt Stafford is nowhere near them from an ability standpoint, from a statistical standpoint Calvin Johnson actually has the advantage since he plays in a much more pass happy league.


ahh i get it 1 year in pass happy league with a qb that is good> being with 2 HOF qbs in a non pass happy league.


Yes, and by a long shot.

Joe Montana in his best statistical year(1987):

3,054 yards
31 touchdowns

Steve Young in his best statistical year(1998):

4,170 yards
36 touchdowns

Matthew Stafford in his first season playing all 16 games(2011):

5,028 yards
41 touchdowns

Honestly, I don't even know how you could question this.
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Yfz01


Joined: 18 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Mathew Stafford passed the ball like 630 times that season. Shocked

I'm having a hard time gauge where Calvin Johnson is. He's not as good as AJ Green or Jerry Rice, but he has the potential to pass Randy Moss?
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ArodFanboy


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yfz01 wrote:
And Mathew Stafford passed the ball like 630 times that season. Shocked

I'm having a hard time gauge where Calvin Johnson is. He's not as good as AJ Green or Jerry Rice, but he has the potential to pass Randy Moss?


If he continues this kind of dominance around the endzone and does it with better longevity then Moss I'd have no problem calling him the #2 ever. He's just not the WR Rice was though from a technical standpoint. He and Moss are both nightmares athletically for their own reasons.
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eagles101


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Calvin Johnson Will Not Even Come Close to Jerry Rice. Reply with quote

Ataal wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
AmerigoCorleone wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
And Jerry Rice had two of the greatest QB of all-time throwing him the ball. How this isn't taken into account is beyond me?


It was a different era. Joe Montana averaged 22.8 touchdowns and 211.2 yards per 16 game regular season. Steve Young averaged 22.0 touchdowns and 196.0 yards per 16 game regular season.

So even though Matt Stafford is nowhere near them from an ability standpoint, from a statistical standpoint Calvin Johnson actually has the advantage since he plays in a much more pass happy league.


ahh i get it 1 year in pass happy league with a qb that is good> being with 2 HOF qbs in a non pass happy league.


Yes, and by a long shot.

Joe Montana in his best statistical year(1987):

3,054 yards
31 touchdowns

Steve Young in his best statistical year(1998):

4,170 yards
36 touchdowns

Matthew Stafford in his first season playing all 16 games(2011):

5,028 yards
41 touchdowns

Honestly, I don't even know how you could question this.


he had one year where he had a good qb. and that year was an anomaly in the NFL. the years before that he was on terrible teams and had terrible qbs. the years before that one the lions qbs had stats similar to joe montantas stats.

Cj has to over come a horrible team, horrible QB, and horrible coaching his first 3 years. and a horrible team and horrible qb in his next year after that.

jerry rice had 2 HOF qbs, on a great team, and with a great coach.

its a pass heavy league for some teams but CJ has had only one year of that benefit.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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yupyup


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is this a thread? Of course he won't.
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Calvin Johnson Will Not Even Come Close to Jerry Rice. Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
Ataal wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
AmerigoCorleone wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
And Jerry Rice had two of the greatest QB of all-time throwing him the ball. How this isn't taken into account is beyond me?


It was a different era. Joe Montana averaged 22.8 touchdowns and 211.2 yards per 16 game regular season. Steve Young averaged 22.0 touchdowns and 196.0 yards per 16 game regular season.

So even though Matt Stafford is nowhere near them from an ability standpoint, from a statistical standpoint Calvin Johnson actually has the advantage since he plays in a much more pass happy league.


ahh i get it 1 year in pass happy league with a qb that is good> being with 2 HOF qbs in a non pass happy league.


Yes, and by a long shot.

Joe Montana in his best statistical year(1987):

3,054 yards
31 touchdowns

Steve Young in his best statistical year(1998):

4,170 yards
36 touchdowns

Matthew Stafford in his first season playing all 16 games(2011):

5,028 yards
41 touchdowns

Honestly, I don't even know how you could question this.


he had one year where he had a good qb. and that year was an anomaly in the NFL. the years before that he was on terrible teams and had terrible qbs. the years before that one the lions qbs had stats similar to joe montantas stats.

Cj has to over come a horrible team, horrible QB, and horrible coaching his first 3 years. and a horrible team and horrible qb in his next year after that.

jerry rice had 2 HOF qbs, on a great team, and with a great coach.

its a pass heavy league for some teams but CJ has had only one year of that benefit.


The point is, his ceiling is much higher now. If this was the year 1984, Matthew Stafford would not have had 5,028 yards and 41 touchdowns. But, it isn't 1984. It's 2012 and Calvin is already on pace to have another 1,600 yard season. If Stafford continues to play well and Calvin has a decent career longevity, he will have benefited GREATLY by this pass-happy league.

When all is said and done, though. I just don't think he'll pass Rice statistically. Being a bigger guy, aging is more cruel. He'll most likely drop off, statistically, but will still demand respect and honesty from the defense. It just won't be enough to pass Rice. This is why Rice is considered the GOAT. Longevity and consistency when the league did not favor the WR with numbers that would impress, even in a pass happy league.
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eagles101


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Calvin Johnson Will Not Even Come Close to Jerry Rice. Reply with quote

Ataal wrote:

The point is, his ceiling is much higher now. If this was the year 1984, Matthew Stafford would not have had 5,028 yards and 41 touchdowns. But, it isn't 1984. It's 2012 and Calvin is already on pace to have another 1,600 yard season. If Stafford continues to play well and Calvin has a decent career longevity, he will have benefited GREATLY by this pass-happy league.

When all is said and done, though. I just don't think he'll pass Rice statistically. Being a bigger guy, aging is more cruel. He'll most likely drop off, statistically, but will still demand respect and honesty from the defense. It just won't be enough to pass Rice. This is why Rice is considered the GOAT. Longevity and consistency when the league did not favor the WR with numbers that would impress, even in a pass happy league.


maybe in the future it will show up but right now it hasnt. besides the one year where every pass offense did amazing. besides that the stat line for the lions isnt far off from the stat line of the niners.

i think jerry is the goat but saying CJ gets a benefit of a pass happy league is just silly at this point. maybe in the future if the stats show the majority of his years he was on a team that put up big numbers, then a point can be made. but a one year anomaly doesnt cut it in my book. its just a safety net in my book. CJ wont pass his record BUT if he does its because hes in a pass heavy league. you could easily say that about jerry rice and any great wr before him or that they didnt play 16 games. or you could say jerry only got it because he was in a amazing offense and great coaching. there are so many ifs and buts to this but they dont matter.

the fact is that jerry and CJ are great players and probably 1 and 2 at there position when its all said in done. CJ has a chance to pass him as the all time great if he can keep up his play for a long time.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yfz01 wrote:
And Mathew Stafford passed the ball like 630 times that season. Shocked

I'm having a hard time gauge where Calvin Johnson is. He's not as good as AJ Green or Jerry Rice, but he has the potential to pass Randy Moss?


WTF really?
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Yfz01


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
Yfz01 wrote:
And Mathew Stafford passed the ball like 630 times that season. Shocked

I'm having a hard time gauge where Calvin Johnson is. He's not as good as AJ Green or Jerry Rice, but he has the potential to pass Randy Moss?


WTF really?


I'm just trying to decipher all these Calvin Johnson threads...

Eagles101 - Calvin Johnson will not be number two either. He's great but he is no Randy Moss.
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eagles101


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yfz01 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
Yfz01 wrote:
And Mathew Stafford passed the ball like 630 times that season. Shocked

I'm having a hard time gauge where Calvin Johnson is. He's not as good as AJ Green or Jerry Rice, but he has the potential to pass Randy Moss?


WTF really?


I'm just trying to decipher all these Calvin Johnson threads...

Eagles101 - Calvin Johnson will not be number two either. He's great but he is no Randy Moss.


i would take CJ over randy moss any day of the week. at the end of the day CJ is going to have a better career unless he gets a career ending injury. CJ and randy moss have near equal talent. i would give the edge at moss at this point. but moss's attitude brings him down a lot. when randy was at his best he was the best WR ever but that was a hit and a miss with randy.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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Yfz01


Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 8665
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
Yfz01 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
Yfz01 wrote:
And Mathew Stafford passed the ball like 630 times that season. Shocked

I'm having a hard time gauge where Calvin Johnson is. He's not as good as AJ Green or Jerry Rice, but he has the potential to pass Randy Moss?


WTF really?


I'm just trying to decipher all these Calvin Johnson threads...

Eagles101 - Calvin Johnson will not be number two either. He's great but he is no Randy Moss.


i would take CJ over randy moss any day of the week. at the end of the day CJ is going to have a better career unless he gets a career ending injury. CJ and randy moss have near equal talent. i would give the edge at moss at this point. but moss's attitude brings him down a lot. when randy was at his best he was the best WR ever but that was a hit and a miss with randy.


Calvin is going to have a better career?

Moss at age 26
525 Catches--8,375 Yards---60 TD's--

Calvin at age 27
395 catches-- 6,295 Yards -- 50 TD's--
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eagles101


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yfz01 wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
Yfz01 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
Yfz01 wrote:
And Mathew Stafford passed the ball like 630 times that season. Shocked

I'm having a hard time gauge where Calvin Johnson is. He's not as good as AJ Green or Jerry Rice, but he has the potential to pass Randy Moss?


WTF really?


I'm just trying to decipher all these Calvin Johnson threads...

Eagles101 - Calvin Johnson will not be number two either. He's great but he is no Randy Moss.


i would take CJ over randy moss any day of the week. at the end of the day CJ is going to have a better career unless he gets a career ending injury. CJ and randy moss have near equal talent. i would give the edge at moss at this point. but moss's attitude brings him down a lot. when randy was at his best he was the best WR ever but that was a hit and a miss with randy.


Calvin is going to have a better career?

Moss at age 26
525 Catches--8,375 Yards---60 TD's--

Calvin at age 27
395 catches-- 6,295 Yards -- 50 TD's--


and? i didnt say that he has it now, i said when it was over hes going to have a better career. randy at the end of his career didnt have very good seasons where CJ could easily pass him.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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ukdolfan


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rice played twenty seasons, I'm not sure how saying for anyone to catch him will have to play a lot of seasons is any kind of revelation.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Calvin Johnson Will Not Even Come Close to Jerry Rice. Reply with quote

jargin wrote:
AmerigoCorleone wrote:
I hear everywhere that Calvin Johnson could surpass Jerry Rice's statistics. To those that say this, you're not paying attention to the numbers.

AmerigoCorleone wrote:
Jerry Rice:

Receptions: 1549 (5.1)
Yards: 22895 (75.6)
Touchdowns: 197 (0.65)

Calvin Johnson:

Receptions: 366 (4.Cool
Yards: 5872 (77.3)
Touchdowns: 49 (0.65)

For Calvin Johnson to match Jerry Rice in yards and touchdowns he would need to average 1309.4 yards and 11.4 touchdowns for 13 more seasons.


There's now way that Calvin Johnson even comes close to those numbers.
You act as if surpassing his stats are the only thing that would define him as a better player. I think if Calvin can demonstrate his dominance in scoring TD's each year and show that he simply cannot be covered 1 on 1 then there is little doubt that he is one of the greatest to ever play. I mean, if you had to chose right now to put a player on the Browns to make them better, would it be Rice or Johnson? Its a difficult question because they played in different eras. I think Rice will be forever know as the one of the football players with the most longevity along with Favre, Emmit Smith and Ray Lewis. I'm not suggesting Calvin is better than Rice right now or that when his career is done that anyone will say he is the greatest, I just think that comparing stats at this point and saying Calvin will never be better is somewhat stupid.


It's not even a difficult question, Rice. Johnson will never surpass Rice as the GOAT WR. Rice set the bar far too high.
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