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Poetic Justice for Brees
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Pats#1


Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Posts: 5716
Location: Plymouth, MA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Dude you're not making any sense. I don't care if you think Brees chases records, saying he chases records and cares MORE about them then winning games is ridiculous and you have absolutely nothing to back that up.


To be fair, I don't think he ever said Brees thought it was more important, just equally.

It's still a totally unsubstantiated claim, but still.


Was just about to write that...while my claim is definitely 100% proven, its definitely not 100% unsubstantiated either.

If it looks like a dog, smells like a dog, and barks like a dog....its "usually" a dog Smile
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
That doesn't explain your ridiculous claim that Brees cares about his records just as much as his teams success.


You're right....I'm sure it's all just a really big coincidence.


You're sure what's a big coincidence? That Brees is breaking records?

You claimed that Brees thought his records were just as important as the teams overall success. What are you basing that on?

What has Brees done that's hurt his team, while trying to break a record? How have any of these records hurt the Saints? What has Brees done to show you that he thinks his records are just as important as the teams success?

Simply breaking records isn't even close to enough to support your claim, especially since the Saints have been well above average since he really started breaking the records. The fact that he is breaking records doesn't prove that he thinks they're just as important as the teams overall success.


When did I say that Brees chasing the record hurt the team last season? When did I say the Saints weren't a good team last season? I haven't said any of those things.

What I am saying is that from what I and a lot of other people saw, on how they broke that record last year, it was just obvious that they really really cared about getting it.

If I remember correctly Brees broke the record throwing a TD pass with like 2 minutes left in the game up by 30 or so on the Falcons, right?

Are you seriously telling me that that is just a coincidence? That they would have done that anyways if Brees wasn't close to the record?

I'm not trying to say Brees chasing the record hurt the team...I'm saying its obvious him and Payton were chasing it and that by them chasing it it pretty much proves they definitely care about it just as much as winning because of the situation the team as whole was in at the time and how they decided to keep playing Brees. Because if they didn't, Brees wouldn't even have been out there in the 4th qtr playing and risking injury.

If they cared about the team's overall goals to win the SB over all else, they wouldn't have risked continuing to play Brees in a game they had in the bag.

That's at least how I look at it. Why risk injury for some stupid record that looks good on paper....especially when you had a whole other game to do it the next week.


Did Brady think his TD record was just as important as the Patriots overall success in 2007?
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Dude you're not making any sense. I don't care if you think Brees chases records, saying he chases records and cares MORE about them then winning games is ridiculous and you have absolutely nothing to back that up.


To be fair, I don't think he ever said Brees thought it was more important, just equally.

It's still a totally unsubstantiated claim, but still.


Was just about to write that...while my claim is definitely 100% proven, its definitely not 100% unsubstantiated either.

If it looks like a dog, smells like a dog, and barks like a dog....its "usually" a dog Smile


I really hope that's a typo.
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Pats#1


Joined: 19 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
That doesn't explain your ridiculous claim that Brees cares about his records just as much as his teams success.


You're right....I'm sure it's all just a really big coincidence.


You're sure what's a big coincidence? That Brees is breaking records?

You claimed that Brees thought his records were just as important as the teams overall success. What are you basing that on?

What has Brees done that's hurt his team, while trying to break a record? How have any of these records hurt the Saints? What has Brees done to show you that he thinks his records are just as important as the teams success?

Simply breaking records isn't even close to enough to support your claim, especially since the Saints have been well above average since he really started breaking the records. The fact that he is breaking records doesn't prove that he thinks they're just as important as the teams overall success.


When did I say that Brees chasing the record hurt the team last season? When did I say the Saints weren't a good team last season? I haven't said any of those things.

What I am saying is that from what I and a lot of other people saw, on how they broke that record last year, it was just obvious that they really really cared about getting it.

If I remember correctly Brees broke the record throwing a TD pass with like 2 minutes left in the game up by 30 or so on the Falcons, right?

Are you seriously telling me that that is just a coincidence? That they would have done that anyways if Brees wasn't close to the record?

I'm not trying to say Brees chasing the record hurt the team...I'm saying its obvious him and Payton were chasing it and that by them chasing it it pretty much proves they definitely care about it just as much as winning because of the situation the team as whole was in at the time and how they decided to keep playing Brees. Because if they didn't, Brees wouldn't even have been out there in the 4th qtr playing and risking injury.

If they cared about the team's overall goals to win the SB over all else, they wouldn't have risked continuing to play Brees in a game they had in the bag.

That's at least how I look at it. Why risk injury for some stupid record that looks good on paper....especially when you had a whole other game to do it the next week.


Did Brady think his TD record was just as important as the Patriots overall success in 2007?


At the time I hated the fact that Brady was staying in and risking injury when they were up so big late in the game.

Looking back is it cool that he has the record? Sure, but every single pats fan would rather him throw 10 less TDs that year and win the SB then have that dumb record.

The situation was also a bit different...BB, Brady, and the pats org were out to prove a point. After the whole spygate thing they wanted to prove just how unimportant and dumb all the fuss was about.

So they went out and showed everyone just how dominant they were and how Spygate was most overblown non-story in the history of the NFL.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Dude you're not making any sense. I don't care if you think Brees chases records, saying he chases records and cares MORE about them then winning games is ridiculous and you have absolutely nothing to back that up.


To be fair, I don't think he ever said Brees thought it was more important, just equally.

It's still a totally unsubstantiated claim, but still.


Was just about to write that...while my claim is definitely [b]NOT 100% proven[/b], its definitely not 100% unsubstantiated either.

If it looks like a dog, smells like a dog, and barks like a dog....its "usually" a dog Smile


I really hope that's a typo.



whoops! Embarassed
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Did Brady think his TD record was just as important as the Patriots overall success in 2007?


At the time I hated the fact that Brady was staying in and risking injury when they were up so big late in the game.

Looking back is it cool that he has the record? Sure, but every single pats fan would rather him throw 10 less TDs that year and win the SB then have that dumb record.

The situation was also a bit different...BB, Brady, and the pats org were out to prove a point. After the whole spygate thing they wanted to prove just how unimportant and dumb all the fuss was about.

So they went out and showed everyone just how dominant they were and how Spygate was most overblown non-story in the history of the NFL.


1) You say all the Patriot fans would rather him throw less TDs if it means a SB win, that's fine, but I was asking about what Brady thought, not what the fans thought. I personally think Brady would absolutely trade his record for another ring, but if you also think that, then you've shown a clear double standard favoring Brady.

2) You talk about Brady and BB running up the score to prove a point. You don't think Brees is out to prove a point that the Chargers and Dolphins messed up by not signing him? You'd be showing a clear bias if you give BB and Brady a pass for running up the score to get stats, but not Brees.

3) All this aside, it still doesn't prove that Brees puts his personal records on the same level as the Saints overall record. All you've proven is that Brees wants to see his name in the record books, but nobody's denying that.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
That doesn't explain your ridiculous claim that Brees cares about his records just as much as his teams success.


You're right....I'm sure it's all just a really big coincidence.


You're sure what's a big coincidence? That Brees is breaking records?

You claimed that Brees thought his records were just as important as the teams overall success. What are you basing that on?

What has Brees done that's hurt his team, while trying to break a record? How have any of these records hurt the Saints? What has Brees done to show you that he thinks his records are just as important as the teams success?

Simply breaking records isn't even close to enough to support your claim, especially since the Saints have been well above average since he really started breaking the records. The fact that he is breaking records doesn't prove that he thinks they're just as important as the teams overall success.


When did I say that Brees chasing the record hurt the team last season? When did I say the Saints weren't a good team last season? I haven't said any of those things.

What I am saying is that from what I and a lot of other people saw, on how they broke that record last year, it was just obvious that they really really cared about getting it.

If I remember correctly Brees broke the record throwing a TD pass with like 2 minutes left in the game up by 30 or so on the Falcons, right?

Are you seriously telling me that that is just a coincidence? That they would have done that anyways if Brees wasn't close to the record?

I'm not trying to say Brees chasing the record hurt the team...I'm saying its obvious him and Payton were chasing it and that by them chasing it it pretty much proves they definitely care about it just as much as winning because of the situation the team as whole was in at the time and how they decided to keep playing Brees. Because if they didn't, Brees wouldn't even have been out there in the 4th qtr playing and risking injury.

If they cared about the team's overall goals to win the SB over all else, they wouldn't have risked continuing to play Brees in a game they had in the bag.

That's at least how I look at it. Why risk injury for some stupid record that looks good on paper....especially when you had a whole other game to do it the next week.

It was pretty obvious they wanted to get the record in front of the home crowd, and no one can fault them for that.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Did Brady think his TD record was just as important as the Patriots overall success in 2007?


At the time I hated the fact that Brady was staying in and risking injury when they were up so big late in the game.

Looking back is it cool that he has the record? Sure, but every single pats fan would rather him throw 10 less TDs that year and win the SB then have that dumb record.

The situation was also a bit different...BB, Brady, and the pats org were out to prove a point. After the whole spygate thing they wanted to prove just how unimportant and dumb all the fuss was about.

So they went out and showed everyone just how dominant they were and how Spygate was most overblown non-story in the history of the NFL.


1) You say all the Patriot fans would rather him throw less TDs, that's fine, but I was asking about what Brady thought, not what the fans thought. I personally think Brady would absolutely trade his record for another ring, but if you also think that, then you've shown a clear double standard favoring Brady.

2) You talk about Brady and BB running up the score to prove a point. You don't think Brees is out to prove a point that the Chargers and Dolphins messed up by not signing him? You'd be showing a clear bias if you give BB and Brady a pass for running up the score to get stats, but not Brees.

3) All this aside, it still doesn't prove that Brees puts his personal records on the same level as the Saints overall record. All you've proven is that Brees wants to see his name in the record books, but nobody's denying that.


1) No I don't think Brady and BB care about personal records just as much as the teams because when the situation says run the ball, they tend to run the ball and not pass. Other than yardage and TDs there isn't much a QB can break records in that account for just himself.

I would also say that if BB had a RB like Sproles, he definitely wouldn't be passing most of the time on the GL on 1st and 2nd down. The pats FINALLY seem to have a decent run game this season and they have been running the ball like crazy, not passing, especially in this last game.

BB is known for doing whatever works best and pretty much always putting the team above all else.

Now am I blind to certain things because I'm a pats fan...OF COURSE I AM, who isn't just a little bit of a homer for their home team??? Laughing

2.) oh come on...are you really trying to put those two situations even in the same stratosphere???? After spygate came out soooo many people were talking about how the patriots only won because they cheated, Belicheat, cheatriots, blah blah blah...sorry, but Brees wanting to prove something to the teams he could have gone to is not even close to the same as spygate and BB wanting to prove all the naysayers wrong.

3.) Like I said, i can't prove anything 100%. But if it looks, smells, and barks like a dog, it tends to be a dog. From what I saw last season, with how he stayed in the game several times throughout the season when it was already sealed for a win, I tend to believe it was him and Payton really caring for that record, which really did nothing for the team as a whole.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
That doesn't explain your ridiculous claim that Brees cares about his records just as much as his teams success.


You're right....I'm sure it's all just a really big coincidence.


You're sure what's a big coincidence? That Brees is breaking records?

You claimed that Brees thought his records were just as important as the teams overall success. What are you basing that on?

What has Brees done that's hurt his team, while trying to break a record? How have any of these records hurt the Saints? What has Brees done to show you that he thinks his records are just as important as the teams success?

Simply breaking records isn't even close to enough to support your claim, especially since the Saints have been well above average since he really started breaking the records. The fact that he is breaking records doesn't prove that he thinks they're just as important as the teams overall success.


When did I say that Brees chasing the record hurt the team last season? When did I say the Saints weren't a good team last season? I haven't said any of those things.

What I am saying is that from what I and a lot of other people saw, on how they broke that record last year, it was just obvious that they really really cared about getting it.

If I remember correctly Brees broke the record throwing a TD pass with like 2 minutes left in the game up by 30 or so on the Falcons, right?

Are you seriously telling me that that is just a coincidence? That they would have done that anyways if Brees wasn't close to the record?

I'm not trying to say Brees chasing the record hurt the team...I'm saying its obvious him and Payton were chasing it and that by them chasing it it pretty much proves they definitely care about it just as much as winning because of the situation the team as whole was in at the time and how they decided to keep playing Brees. Because if they didn't, Brees wouldn't even have been out there in the 4th qtr playing and risking injury.

If they cared about the team's overall goals to win the SB over all else, they wouldn't have risked continuing to play Brees in a game they had in the bag.

That's at least how I look at it. Why risk injury for some stupid record that looks good on paper....especially when you had a whole other game to do it the next week.

It was pretty obvious they wanted to get the record in front of the home crowd, and no one can fault them for that.


Fair enough....I just personally don't think it was worth risking injury, especially since the Falcons were obviously upset they were getting literally obliterated.

Would you still be agreeing to keep him in the game if he had ended up getting hurt?
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course not, but he didn't get hurt so theirs no point in arguing that. Also why do you keep saying "If we had a HB like Sproles" in terms of him being some dominant threat running the ball? The last thing I want to see on the goal line is Sproles running the ball. The guys like 5'7" 180 on a good day.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Of course not, but he didn't get hurt so theirs no point in arguing that. Also why do you keep saying "If we had a HB like Sproles" in terms of him being some dominant threat running the ball? The last thing I want to see on the goal line is Sproles running the ball. The guys like 5'7" 180 on a good day.


Much better than any option the pats have had till now.
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Dus10


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How in the world does it work out that Drew Brees gets to, in all likelihood, break this record against his former team?

...because humans who are aware of records like this are in charge of making the schedule?

I guess the 1 in 4 chance we fell on the AFC West this year is kind of spooky...
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Raves


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pats#1 if you run the ball in an obvious run situation, what is a more likely scenario, your run succeeds with a positive not or the defense plays the run and stops your run from being successful?

Of course the Saints pass in obvious running situations, it's called strategy. Also from about 5-10 yards out I wouldn't trust our running backs on a regular carry getting in, hell I'm not sure if I trust them on the goal line half the time, so I would much rather have the best player on the team with the ball in his hands able to pass to the next 3 best players on the team in Colston, Graham, or Sproles. So if I have the option of running behind our jekyl and hyde OL or letting Brees make something happen, I'm going with Brees 10/10...
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powderblues


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off topic but... for you non-Charger fans we in San Diego still like Brees, he's a good guy who has continued his charity work here in the community. He still hangs out with the Charger players like Rivers and Gates in the off season here too, there relationship is stronger than people think. There is also no bad blood between the fans and Brees, just Brees and AJ Smith who obviously has a reputation with players leaving (L.T., Darren Sproles, Michael Turner, Vincent Jackson, Antonio Cromartie).

Obviously theres like a 99% chance he will set the record and congrats for him especially since they'll likely throw the ball even more and our secondary is average.

But in the big picture it doesn't matter because his team will likely be 0-5 and our team 4-1.



Hell if he throws towards Antoine Cason's side he might even get 47 touchdowns in just this game. Smile
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Big Lob


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Brees played on the Cowboys or one of the New York teams, this would be a HUGE HUGE deal. Just saying.
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