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Poetic Justice for Brees
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steadypimpin wrote:
There's a very good article on NFL.com I read today. It talks about how Brees is partially to blame for the 0-4 start. His greed from the contract dispute harmed the team and some of their key guys walked because the team couldn't afford them along with Brees. But yeah Brees can't do any wrong and is the reason why New Orleans is still a functioning city today.

Well, that article is absolutely stupid then. You seem to know SO much about the Saints so please tell me what "key guys" walked because of Brees? Carl Nicks? Nope, he was long gone, we offered him a contract and he accepted the larger deal from Tampa Bay and we replaced him with arguably another top 5 OG in Ben Grubbs. Who else did we lose? Tracy Porter? Laughing You have no idea what you're talking about man, just stop.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.


And how many team wins does that count for...2? 3?

This is kind of the story of the Saints...it seems they very much care about breaking obscure records just as much as they do winning games.

What are you talking about? So should Brees not throw a TD pass on purpose because we're losing? What kind of idiotic comment is that?
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Raves


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

strat1080 wrote:
I mentioned the completion percentage. I said that none of his efficiency numbers were great other than completion percentage. Did you miss that? When you compare the all time great seasons by Marino, Manning, Brady, and Rodgers, Brees year falls way short in some areas. Mainly TD%. Yes he threw 46 TDs but he threw 650 passes. Marino, Manning, and Brady threw TDs at a significantly higher rate. Their TD% were all in the 8.5-8.9% range. Brees was 7.0% which isn't all that uncommon.

What I'm trying to say is that Brees numbers have a very cheap feel to them. A lot of his production comes on short underneath stuff. He's a very good intermediate and deep passer but a big chunk of his yardage last year came on dumpoffs to RBs. 23% of his passing yardage came on passes to RBs. When comparing all time great seasons his really doesn't measure up.

In 2011 just 13% of the Packers passing yardage came via RBs. In 2007 just 12% of the Patriots passing yards came via RBs. In 2004 11% of the Colts passing yardage came via RBs. In 1984 13% of the Dolphins passing yardage came via RBs.

See the difference. Brees gets a lot of cheap yards in that system on short dumpoffs to RBs. Darren Sproles played a big part in Drew Brees putting up those monster numbers last year. I see through it though. Brees is not better than Dan Marino and his season last year wasn't as good as Marino's. I don't value passing yardage as much as some people. I break down passing numbers by efficiency much more than bulk volume stats. Seriously man. 1/4 of Drew Brees passing yardage last year came from RBs. Drew Brees is one of those guys that you watch and at the end of the game simply don't remember him throwing for that much yardage. Like I said, a lot of it is cheap yardage on short underneath stuff.


So because the Saints run a west coast offense which uses a lot of underneath passes as another form of a running game, which opens up the real running game by spreading it out, you are punishing him due to his touchdown % compared to others, same with the fact he has worse deep threats than the previously mentioned QBs.

You also choose to discredit Brees because he has amazing receiving weapons that are classified as RBs. So because he threw to his great receiving RBs he's not a great QB... that's like saying Tom Brady shouldn't throw to his TEs because they aren't WRs and they should only block...

See how ignorant that is? The game of football in constantly changing, and Drew Brees is in an offense that lets him break records due to the nature of the offense, btw the Saints also ranked in the top 5-10 in rushing per game as well, and he's on track to break another record that all time great QBs haven't been close to previously.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.


And how many team wins does that count for...2? 3?

This is kind of the story of the Saints...it seems they very much care about breaking obscure records just as much as they do winning games.

What are you talking about? So should Brees not throw a TD pass on purpose because we're losing? What kind of idiotic comment is that?


No need for personal attacks. Let's keep this focused on football and not make it personal.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.


And how many team wins does that count for...2? 3?

This is kind of the story of the Saints...it seems they very much care about breaking obscure records just as much as they do winning games.

What are you talking about? So should Brees not throw a TD pass on purpose because we're losing? What kind of idiotic comment is that?


Calm down buddy, we're talking about Brees, not you.

And what I was saying is that Payton and Brees last season were obviously chasing the heck out of that yardage record. They were throwing in so many run situations. How many times did we see the saints throw a TD pass from within the 5 yd line? How many times did you see the Saints continue to throw every down, with simple passes to the RB, when they were winning big and late in the 4th when they really should be running and killing the clock.

Nobody is saying the Saints were bad last season, no one is saying Brees isn't a good QB, we're just saying it very obvious that he finds personal records just as important as the teams overall record.

I like Brees, he seems like a good guy and is obviously a very good QB...but he has made it pretty clear that he's obsessed with personal records, something I find much less important than a teams.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
it very obvious that he finds personal records just as important as the teams overall record.


Care to back that with anything other than speculation?

It's a ridiculous claim, so you should have something to back it up.

Has he ever lost a game because he was chasing records? Has he ever even risked losing a game because he was chasing records?

Nobody is denying that Brees likes to break records, but to say he thinks his records are just important as the team winning is absolutely ridiculous.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.


And how many team wins does that count for...2? 3?

This is kind of the story of the Saints...it seems they very much care about breaking obscure records just as much as they do winning games.

What are you talking about? So should Brees not throw a TD pass on purpose because we're losing? What kind of idiotic comment is that?


Calm down buddy, we're talking about Brees, not you.

And what I was saying is that Payton and Brees last season were obviously chasing the heck out of that yardage record. They were throwing in so many run situations. How many times did we see the saints throw a TD pass from within the 5 yd line? How many times did you see the Saints continue to throw every down, with simple passes to the RB, when they were winning big and late in the 4th when they really should be running and killing the clock.

Nobody is saying the Saints were bad last season, no one is saying Brees isn't a good QB, we're just saying it very obvious that he finds personal records just as important as the teams overall record.

I like Brees, he seems like a good guy and is obviously a very good QB...but he has made it pretty clear that he's obsessed with personal records, something I find much less important than a teams.

How exactly does Brees getting this record prove he cares more about records than the teams record? Thats just a ridiculous statement and you have NOTHING to back it up except they passed a lot last year? They've always passed a lot. We're a passing team. Weird how that works.
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x0x


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, let's see.

In 2006 while Brees and the Saints had a memorable run to the NFC Championship, the Chargers went 14-2.

And don't forget that Schotty was the coach at that time. And don't forget how they lost to the Pats.


I'm gonna peg Brees having a pretty damn good career in San Diego. Many of you are probably too young to fully comprehend the situation. Brees was finally let go because of his labrum injury.


Also, Brees was kept on the bench his rookie year, had a down 3rd year and his injury got him out of San Diego. He was good his sophmore year and his 4th and 5th year with the Chargers.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.


And how many team wins does that count for...2? 3?

This is kind of the story of the Saints...it seems they very much care about breaking obscure records just as much as they do winning games.

What are you talking about? So should Brees not throw a TD pass on purpose because we're losing? What kind of idiotic comment is that?


Calm down buddy, we're talking about Brees, not you.

And what I was saying is that Payton and Brees last season were obviously chasing the heck out of that yardage record. They were throwing in so many run situations. How many times did we see the saints throw a TD pass from within the 5 yd line? How many times did you see the Saints continue to throw every down, with simple passes to the RB, when they were winning big and late in the 4th when they really should be running and killing the clock.

Nobody is saying the Saints were bad last season, no one is saying Brees isn't a good QB, we're just saying it very obvious that he finds personal records just as important as the teams overall record.

I like Brees, he seems like a good guy and is obviously a very good QB...but he has made it pretty clear that he's obsessed with personal records, something I find much less important than a teams.

How exactly does Brees getting this record prove he cares more about records than the teams record? Thats just a ridiculous statement and you have NOTHING to back it up except they passed a lot last year? They've always passed a lot. We're a passing team. Weird how that works.


Two deep breathes, go back, read my last post, especially the sentence I apparently have to highlight to show you why I think Brees and Payton care about records so much so you dont skip over it in a rage.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.


And how many team wins does that count for...2? 3?

This is kind of the story of the Saints...it seems they very much care about breaking obscure records just as much as they do winning games.

What are you talking about? So should Brees not throw a TD pass on purpose because we're losing? What kind of idiotic comment is that?


Calm down buddy, we're talking about Brees, not you.

And what I was saying is that Payton and Brees last season were obviously chasing the heck out of that yardage record. They were throwing in so many run situations. How many times did we see the saints throw a TD pass from within the 5 yd line? How many times did you see the Saints continue to throw every down, with simple passes to the RB, when they were winning big and late in the 4th when they really should be running and killing the clock.

Nobody is saying the Saints were bad last season, no one is saying Brees isn't a good QB, we're just saying it very obvious that he finds personal records just as important as the teams overall record.

I like Brees, he seems like a good guy and is obviously a very good QB...but he has made it pretty clear that he's obsessed with personal records, something I find much less important than a teams.

How exactly does Brees getting this record prove he cares more about records than the teams record? Thats just a ridiculous statement and you have NOTHING to back it up except they passed a lot last year? They've always passed a lot. We're a passing team. Weird how that works.


Two deep breathes, go back, read my last post, especially the sentence I apparently have to highlight to show you why I think Brees and Payton care about records so much so you dont skip over it in a rage.


That doesn't explain your ridiculous claim that Brees cares about his records just as much as his teams success.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.


And how many team wins does that count for...2? 3?

This is kind of the story of the Saints...it seems they very much care about breaking obscure records just as much as they do winning games.

What are you talking about? So should Brees not throw a TD pass on purpose because we're losing? What kind of idiotic comment is that?


Calm down buddy, we're talking about Brees, not you.

And what I was saying is that Payton and Brees last season were obviously chasing the heck out of that yardage record. They were throwing in so many run situations. How many times did we see the saints throw a TD pass from within the 5 yd line? How many times did you see the Saints continue to throw every down, with simple passes to the RB, when they were winning big and late in the 4th when they really should be running and killing the clock.

Nobody is saying the Saints were bad last season, no one is saying Brees isn't a good QB, we're just saying it very obvious that he finds personal records just as important as the teams overall record.

I like Brees, he seems like a good guy and is obviously a very good QB...but he has made it pretty clear that he's obsessed with personal records, something I find much less important than a teams.

How exactly does Brees getting this record prove he cares more about records than the teams record? Thats just a ridiculous statement and you have NOTHING to back it up except they passed a lot last year? They've always passed a lot. We're a passing team. Weird how that works.


Two deep breathes, go back, read my last post, especially the sentence I apparently have to highlight to show you why I think Brees and Payton care about records so much so you dont skip over it in a rage.


That doesn't explain your ridiculous claim that Brees cares about his records just as much as his teams success.


You're right....I'm sure it's all just a really big coincidence.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
That doesn't explain your ridiculous claim that Brees cares about his records just as much as his teams success.


You're right....I'm sure it's all just a really big coincidence.


You're sure what's a big coincidence? That Brees is breaking records?

You claimed that Brees thought his records were just as important as the teams overall success. What are you basing that on?

What has Brees done that's hurt his team, while trying to break a record? How have any of these records hurt the Saints? What has Brees done to show you that he thinks his records are just as important as the teams success?

Simply breaking records isn't even close to enough to support your claim, especially since the Saints have been well above average since he really started breaking the records. The fact that he is breaking records doesn't prove that he thinks they're just as important as the teams overall success.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.


And how many team wins does that count for...2? 3?

This is kind of the story of the Saints...it seems they very much care about breaking obscure records just as much as they do winning games.

What are you talking about? So should Brees not throw a TD pass on purpose because we're losing? What kind of idiotic comment is that?


Calm down buddy, we're talking about Brees, not you.

And what I was saying is that Payton and Brees last season were obviously chasing the heck out of that yardage record. They were throwing in so many run situations. How many times did we see the saints throw a TD pass from within the 5 yd line? How many times did you see the Saints continue to throw every down, with simple passes to the RB, when they were winning big and late in the 4th when they really should be running and killing the clock.

Nobody is saying the Saints were bad last season, no one is saying Brees isn't a good QB, we're just saying it very obvious that he finds personal records just as important as the teams overall record.

I like Brees, he seems like a good guy and is obviously a very good QB...but he has made it pretty clear that he's obsessed with personal records, something I find much less important than a teams.

How exactly does Brees getting this record prove he cares more about records than the teams record? Thats just a ridiculous statement and you have NOTHING to back it up except they passed a lot last year? They've always passed a lot. We're a passing team. Weird how that works.


Two deep breathes, go back, read my last post, especially the sentence I apparently have to highlight to show you why I think Brees and Payton care about records so much so you dont skip over it in a rage.


That doesn't explain your ridiculous claim that Brees cares about his records just as much as his teams success.


You're right....I'm sure it's all just a really big coincidence.

But if I'm not mistaken, don't most teams with the caliber running that Sproles is tend to run when the situation usually calls for a run? Like 1st or 2nd down on the GL, or trying to kill the clock when up big?

Dude you're not making any sense. I don't care if you think Brees chases records, saying he chases records and cares MORE about them then winning games is ridiculous and you have absolutely nothing to back that up.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Dude you're not making any sense. I don't care if you think Brees chases records, saying he chases records and cares MORE about them then winning games is ridiculous and you have absolutely nothing to back that up.


To be fair, I don't think he ever said Brees thought it was more important, just equally.

It's still a totally unsubstantiated claim, but still.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
That doesn't explain your ridiculous claim that Brees cares about his records just as much as his teams success.


You're right....I'm sure it's all just a really big coincidence.


You're sure what's a big coincidence? That Brees is breaking records?

You claimed that Brees thought his records were just as important as the teams overall success. What are you basing that on?

What has Brees done that's hurt his team, while trying to break a record? How have any of these records hurt the Saints? What has Brees done to show you that he thinks his records are just as important as the teams success?

Simply breaking records isn't even close to enough to support your claim, especially since the Saints have been well above average since he really started breaking the records. The fact that he is breaking records doesn't prove that he thinks they're just as important as the teams overall success.


When did I say that Brees chasing the record hurt the team last season? When did I say the Saints weren't a good team last season? I haven't said any of those things.

What I am saying is that from what I and a lot of other people saw, on how they broke that record last year, it was just obvious that they really really cared about getting it.

If I remember correctly Brees broke the record throwing a TD pass with like 2 minutes left in the game up by 30 or so on the Falcons, right?

Are you seriously telling me that that is just a coincidence? That they would have done that anyways if Brees wasn't close to the record?

I'm not trying to say Brees chasing the record hurt the team...I'm saying its obvious him and Payton were chasing it and that by them chasing it it pretty much proves they definitely care about it just as much as winning because of the situation the team as whole was in at the time and how they decided to keep playing Brees. Because if they didn't, Brees wouldn't even have been out there in the 4th qtr playing and risking injury.

If they cared about the team's overall goals to win the SB over all else, they wouldn't have risked continuing to play Brees in a game they had in the bag.

That's at least how I look at it. Why risk injury for some stupid record that looks good on paper....especially when you had a whole other game to do it the next week.
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