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potus


Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 81
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: First Quarter Observations Reply with quote

I know I donít post here much but I certainly read here quite often and felt the need to post. Iíve read a lot of commentary and thoughts in regards to the Saints, both from Saints fans and non-fans and the general consensus Iíve come to is one word: overreaction. Iíd like to look at the first four games hopefully from a non-biased point of view and make some both positive and negative observations.

Offense

-No question about it, Brees is elite. He deserved every penny just like all elite quarterbacks. Anyone who says otherwise is just plain hatin.

-Tackles are in need of an upgrade; Bushrod had always been an average OT on a gifted line, this year however he is just getting mauled. Granted there has been very little help in terms of chips and double teams (thatís a whole another issue) but getting mauled the way he does screams goodbye this off-season. Strief has also been mediocre in both the run and pass; itís time for Brown to snag one of the tackle spots and address this via FA/draft.

-Carl who? I loved the Grubbs signing when it happened and I do to this day. Yes it sucked losing arguably the best OG in the league, but to replace him with a pro-bowler at a significant discount AND get high level play is a win-win to me. Great job Loomis.

-Payton is truly missed. I always thought it was funny that for the most part, people called Payton a top 3/5 HC but the offense wouldnít lose much steam with Carmichael calling the shots. You canít have it both waysÖPayton is everything you want in a winning coach: smart, aggressive and passionate. I just donít see that in Carmichael and it shows in the play calling. Too many predictable and safe plays have really hurt the potential for this offense.

-Enough of this RBBC (Excluding Sproles). Either this team needs to commit to Ingram or sit him on the bench, that simple.

-A respectable deep threat is absolutely needed. One hopes Morgan can come through especially after that TD against GB. He will need to be watched heavily as the season goes on so a decision can be made for the off season.

-Jimmy got BIG. That is all.

Defense

-Why all the hate for Jenkins? He has his flaws but itís not like replacing him will fix this defense. Some good coaching will fix this rut heís in. Heís made his fair amount of plays in his time here. When heís the weak link of this defense, then itís time for him to go.

-Smith and Ellis need to go. No pass rush and no push on the line. Iíve seen enough of Bunkley and Hicks to know they are here to stay and produce with talent and help around them. Jordon is improving and already a good LE. On Wilson and Junior not getting their reps, do you get the feeling itís political?

-Lofton is a stud; best defensive player on this team by far. Another point for Loomis.

-Robinson was worth the investment and development. Heís #1 CB on this team by seasonís end. I love Greer but his play is declining.

-Spags needs time and talent, something that the defense doesnít have right now. Why throw him under the bus?


Thoughts fellow Who Dats?
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only thing I disagree with is Malcolm Jenkins. He sucks in every aspect of being a FS and needs to be replaced immediately, he can't tackle, he takes AWFUL angles like the worst I've ever seen, is constantly out of position and gets beaten in coverage far too much, not to mention I can't count how many times he's bitten on pump fakes. Its awful. Malcolm Jenkins is the biggest bust we've had since Jonathan Sullivan, and I'm not kidding or overreacting.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Only thing I disagree with is Malcolm Jenkins. He sucks in every aspect of being a FS and needs to be replaced immediately, he can't tackle, he takes AWFUL angles like the worst I've ever seen, is constantly out of position and gets beaten in coverage far too much, not to mention I can't count how many times he's bitten on pump fakes. Its awful. Malcolm Jenkins is the biggest bust we've had since Jonathan Sullivan, and I'm not kidding or overreacting.


I agree...

To often we as WhoDats get caught up into what we all hope our palyers could be. This defense has been starving for a playmaker since Darren Sharper left and Jenkins is catching the wrath of that. He's a former 1st round pick with all the physical skills to be great and I think we all are pi$$ed off because we've seen this story before of a high draft choice with tremendous talent not living up to his potential in the black & gold...

Reggie Bush
Robert Meachem
Sedrick Ellis

It's not to late for Jenkins to trun this thing around and I do believ that Spags will improve his game in time but the fact of the matter is that Jenkins will likley never be the game changer we all thought he would be and honestly, until this team gets a pass rush we'll never know exactly how good he either is or could be!
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Raves


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Only thing I disagree with is Malcolm Jenkins. He sucks in every aspect of being a FS and needs to be replaced immediately, he can't tackle, he takes AWFUL angles like the worst I've ever seen, is constantly out of position and gets beaten in coverage far too much, not to mention I can't count how many times he's bitten on pump fakes. Its awful. Malcolm Jenkins is the biggest bust we've had since Jonathan Sullivan, and I'm not kidding or overreacting.


I agree...

To often we as WhoDats get caught up into what we all hope our palyers could be. This defense has been starving for a playmaker since Darren Sharper left and Jenkins is catching the wrath of that. He's a former 1st round pick with all the physical skills to be great and I think we all are pi$$ed off because we've seen this story before of a high draft choice with tremendous talent not living up to his potential in the black & gold...

Reggie Bush
Robert Meachem
Sedrick Ellis

It's not to late for Jenkins to trun this thing around and I do believ that Spags will improve his game in time but the fact of the matter is that Jenkins will likley never be the game changer we all thought he would be and honestly, until this team gets a pass rush we'll never know exactly how good he either is or could be!


I disagree with this comment big time. He came into the league and looked really good his first two years, the past few he's had trouble and I put full blame on coaching. Same with what happened with the aforementioned Reggie Bush. How many times did I post that we are using him wrong, that this needed to happen or that needed to happen, but no it never did. Now he's in Miami and it looks like he might end up leading the league in rushing this year, did he all of a sudden stop sucking or did coaching put him in a position to succeed?

Jenkins coming out of Ohio State had few flaws in his game, he took great angles, he wrapped up, he didn't bite on play fakes, but with 2 years under Gregg Williams he started picking up bad habits and they need to be corrected and can be. I say give him this year, draft another FS to possibly replace him next year if need be, but don't go out of your way to force it.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I disagree with this comment big time. He came into the league and looked really good his first two years, the past few he's had trouble and I put full blame on coaching. Same with what happened with the aforementioned Reggie Bush. How many times did I post that we are using him wrong, that this needed to happen or that needed to happen, but no it never did. Now he's in Miami and it looks like he might end up leading the league in rushing this year, did he all of a sudden stop sucking or did coaching put him in a position to succeed?

Jenkins coming out of Ohio State had few flaws in his game, he took great angles, he wrapped up, he didn't bite on play fakes, but with 2 years under Gregg Williams he started picking up bad habits and they need to be corrected and can be. I say give him this year, draft another FS to possibly replace him next year if need be, but don't go out of your way to force it.


Raves...

I'm not saying cut Jenkins, I'm not saying he's a bust. I'm just pointing out that maybe we as fans had unrealistic expectations for him as a player. He came out of OSU as a highly touted player and if that wasent enough he had to fill the role that Darren Sharper left and I think we all kinda thought he'd just pick up where Sharper left off.

I do believe Jenkins has the skill set to be an all-pro and I feel Spags can get him there. What I question is has he travled down the beaten path to long?

In other words... can he and is he willing to kick these bad habits?

Time will tell...
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potus


Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Jenkins coming out of Ohio State had few flaws in his game, he took great angles, he wrapped up, he didn't bite on play fakes, but with 2 years under Gregg Williams he started picking up bad habits and they need to be corrected and can be. I say give him this year, draft another FS to possibly replace him next year if need be, but don't go out of your way to force it.


Agreed. There are many more pressing needs than replacing Jenkins at the moment. It's not being hopeful but realistic that coaching can fix his issues.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jenkins has regress every year and he's looked even worse this year, no offense Raves but you do tend to have quite a bias for OSU players. I want Jenkins to succeed but right now he looks like one of the worst safeties in the league
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potus


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both Jenkins and Harper tie the lead in tackles for all safeties. Stats aren't everything but it reinforces the fact of a weak front 4/7.

I have no issue calling out anyone on this defense if they deserve it but Jenkins is not one of the worst safeties in the league nor Harper for that matter.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

potus wrote:
Both Jenkins and Harper tie the lead in tackles for all safeties. Stats aren't everything but it reinforces the fact of a weak front 4/7.

I have no issue calling out anyone on this defense if they deserve it but Jenkins is not one of the worst safeties in the league nor Harper for that matter.

I love Roman Harper and think he's criminally underrated, Malcolm Jenkins on the other hand has been awful. He's supposed to be our big play FS yet he has 3 INTs in his CAREER. He's routinely out of position, he takes the worst angles I've ever seen and his idea of a tackle is throwing his shoulder into someone. Quite frankly, I think he's the worst player on our defense. He's hasn't gotten ANY better since his Sophomore year where his "big year" consisted of 2 INTs, a sack and 64 tackles. I don't think he's our biggest concern, thats definitely a pass rush, but Jenkins does need to be replaced and Harper isn't getting any younger either.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
potus wrote:
Both Jenkins and Harper tie the lead in tackles for all safeties. Stats aren't everything but it reinforces the fact of a weak front 4/7.

I have no issue calling out anyone on this defense if they deserve it but Jenkins is not one of the worst safeties in the league nor Harper for that matter.

I love Roman Harper and think he's criminally underrated, Malcolm Jenkins on the other hand has been awful. He's supposed to be our big play FS yet he has 3 INTs in his CAREER. He's routinely out of position, he takes the worst angles I've ever seen and his idea of a tackle is throwing his shoulder into someone. Quite frankly, I think he's the worst player on our defense. He's hasn't gotten ANY better since his Sophomore year where his "big year" consisted of 2 INTs, a sack and 64 tackles. I don't think he's our biggest concern, thats definitely a pass rush, but Jenkins does need to be replaced and Harper isn't getting any younger either.


I could've told you he would never lead the league in ridiculous number of INTs... he wasn't a ballhawk at Ohio State either. What he was, which has slipped as of late, was a great cover corner who didn't make many mistakes. Now he has started making some mistakes but letting him get back into rhythm he could be a great weapon able to cover TEs, RBs, WRs, etc and be a good safety net willing to come up and make tackles. He's just not going ot make a lot of INTs.
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potus


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of the reason he's out of position is the fact the safeties are having to help clean up the run support, case and point the high number of tackles for both Jenkins and Harper. It's kind of hard for safeties to ball hawk when having to worry about having the WORST run defense in the league.

I strongly believe that the key to the entire defense playing to their potential is fixing that horrid Dline. Why fix three problems when fixing the worst one will probably fix all three?

If I remember correctly during the Seattle loss when Jenkins was out, wasn't everyone saying how badly he was missed and how much different it would have been if he was there? Like I said..there is too much overreaction going around.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like everyone else on here want to see both Jenkins and Harper succeed and I understand they rack up tackles but that's more indicative of our recent defensive play from our front seven combined with they way Greg Williams called games because of it.

The real issue with our safety's are the lack of ball skills!

Honestly... How long has it been since either of these guys came down with an INT?

24, 25, 26 games straight... I'm not sure of the exact number but I know it's in the 20's and that just can not continue!!!
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

potus wrote:
If I remember correctly during the Seattle loss when Jenkins was out, wasn't everyone saying how badly he was missed and how much different it would have been if he was there? Like I said..there is too much overreaction going around.


That was two seasons ago, and he's regressed quite a bit since then.

It's not like it was just last week that we were saying how great he was. Heck, before the season even began there was talk of this being a make or break season for Jenkins.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
I like everyone else on here want to see both Jenkins and Harper succeed and I understand they rack up tackles but that's more indicative of our recent defensive play from our front seven combined with they way Greg Williams called games because of it.

The real issue with our safety's are the lack of ball skills!

Honestly... How long has it been since either of these guys came down with an INT?

24, 25, 26 games straight... I'm not sure of the exact number but I know it's in the 20's and that just can not continue!!!

Agreed, Roman Harpers never been great in coverage but this year he hasn't even recorded any sacks. Spags is totally using him wrong.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
potus wrote:
If I remember correctly during the Seattle loss when Jenkins was out, wasn't everyone saying how badly he was missed and how much different it would have been if he was there? Like I said..there is too much overreaction going around.


That was two seasons ago, and he's regressed quite a bit since then.

It's not like it was just last week that we were saying how great he was. Heck, before the season even began there was talk of this being a make or break season for Jenkins.

Exactly. I'm done making excuses for Jenkins, this was his make or break year and he's done nothing to convince me he should remain on this team. He's been arguably our worst defensive player.
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