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coleman51
Joined: 06 May 2005
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 Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:37 am Post subject: |
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I heard a lot about the Browns not having talent, and while I do not watch them on a regular basis, I saw some players stand out for the Browns. I've always loved D' Jack and which the Titans had drafted him. Wynn was playing hard on the interior DL. Haden proved haters wrong and he's soon to be a top 5 corner (draft experts said he wasn't fast enough) but he is suspended. The WR Benjamin looked like he has some solid potential. Don't forget about Trent Richardson.
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Riftt
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:39 am Post subject: |
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I gotta say the rams have to be up there for least talentless offense. It's bad. Love our defense this year.
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x0x
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Miami or Jacksonville in my opinion.
Without their big name RBs I think those teams are pedestrian. On a professional level of course.
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DawgX
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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It's hilarious how little people know about the Browns.
Weeden has looked good outside of week one. If you exclude week one, his stats are: 59 CMP%, 879 yards (293 YPG), 3 TDs and 3 INTs. That's pretty good for a rookie and much better than he's given credit for.
Richardson has the talent to become a top 2-3 running back in the league.
Thomas and Mack are both elite offensive linemen. Schwartz looks like he'll be one of the better RTs in the league.
Sheard had a monster rookie year. I think he led the league in forced fumbles. Rubin & Taylor form for one of the better DT duos in the league and Taylor will only get better as gains experience. Winn has been great, especially for a rookie sixth-round pick. He looks like he was a first or second-round pick. Hughes has been good as well. Once Taylor returns, the Browns could very well have the best DT unit with these four guys.
Jackson is extremely underrated and has been one of the best MLBs since last season. He already has three sacks and two interceptions.
Has anyone seen Craig Robertson? He's been very good, especially for an UDFA. Eagles fans will tell you that LJ Fort is pretty good as well and he's a rookie UDFA.
Haden is a top 3-5 cornerback and should only get better since he's only in his third season. Ward had a disappointing second season but has really improved this year. He's one of the better strong safeties in the league.
Cleveland's WRs are far from proven but have a lot of potential. Little was second in the league in receptions for rookie WRs... behind only AJ Green. Massaquoi has taken a big step this season. Benjamin has a lot of potential as does Gordon and Jordan Cameron.
The Browns have much more proven talent than people realize and they also have a lot of potential.
It's funny, I remember there was a thread awhile back where people were asked which team they knew the least about and many people said the Browns. If they admit they don't know anything about the Browns, then they shouldn't say Cleveland is the least talented team since they don't know what they're talking about. The Browns are 0-4 but they're also the youngest team in the league. They had a chance to win every game they've played and there's a good chance they would have beaten Cincinnati (and maybe even Baltimore) if Haden were playing since the biggest reason they lost those games was due to giving up big plays through the air. If Haden were playing, I bet many of those big plays wouldn't have happened.
They should have beaten the Eagles, but they lost due to their own mistakes which happens when a team is so young and inexperienced. If Marecic catches the ball at the end of the half, the Browns probably win because the Eagles wouldn't have gotten the ball back and thus wouldn't have scored. If Fort makes that easy INT at the end of the game in the endzone, the Browns would have won.
It's quite clear to me that the Browns are not the least talented team in the league. It's also quite clear that many of you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the Browns when you say their only good players are Thomas, Mack and Haden.
Anyway, I'm not sure who the least talented team is. I'd say the worst team this season might be the Chiefs, but I don't think they're the least talented. I think they're struggling mainyl due to poor coaching, although I do think Cheifs fans highly overrate their talent.
Maybe the Jaguars are the least talented team. The only positions I'd say the Jaguars are definitely better at are RB (for now... Richardson has the talent to be just as good or better than MJD) and FS.
The Rams are arguably the least talented team in the league. Outside of Jackson and Amendola, they don't have much that impresses me on offense. Quinn, Long, Laurinaitis, Finnegan and Jenkins impress me on defense, but I don't see any as being elite talents.
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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 12487
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| DawgX wrote: | | Richardson has the talent to become a top 2-3 running back in the league. |
No he doesn't. I would be shocked if he's ever a top 3 RB.
As for this thread, it's the Jags...
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BaltimoreTerp
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
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Location: Brooklyn, New York
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| DawgX wrote: | It's hilarious how little people know about the Browns.
Weeden has looked good outside of week one. If you exclude week one, his stats are: 59 CMP%, 879 yards (293 YPG), 3 TDs and 3 INTs. That's pretty good for a rookie and much better than he's given credit for.
Richardson has the talent to become a top 2-3 running back in the league.
Thomas and Mack are both elite offensive linemen. Schwartz looks like he'll be one of the better RTs in the league.
Sheard had a monster rookie year. I think he led the league in forced fumbles. Rubin & Taylor form for one of the better DT duos in the league and Taylor will only get better as gains experience. Winn has been great, especially for a rookie sixth-round pick. He looks like he was a first or second-round pick. Hughes has been good as well. Once Taylor returns, the Browns could very well have the best DT unit with these four guys.
Jackson is extremely underrated and has been one of the best MLBs since last season. He already has three sacks and two interceptions.
Has anyone seen Craig Robertson? He's been very good, especially for an UDFA. Eagles fans will tell you that LJ Fort is pretty good as well and he's a rookie UDFA.
Haden is a top 3-5 cornerback and should only get better since he's only in his third season. Ward had a disappointing second season but has really improved this year. He's one of the better strong safeties in the league.
Cleveland's WRs are far from proven but have a lot of potential. Little was second in the league in receptions for rookie WRs... behind only AJ Green. Massaquoi has taken a big step this season. Benjamin has a lot of potential as does Gordon and Jordan Cameron.
The Browns have much more proven talent than people realize and they also have a lot of potential.
It's funny, I remember there was a thread awhile back where people were asked which team they knew the least about and many people said the Browns. If they admit they don't know anything about the Browns, then they shouldn't say Cleveland is the least talented team since they don't know what they're talking about. The Browns are 0-4 but they're also the youngest team in the league. They had a chance to win every game they've played and there's a good chance they would have beaten Cincinnati (and maybe even Baltimore) if Haden were playing since the biggest reason they lost those games was due to giving up big plays through the air. If Haden were playing, I bet many of those big plays wouldn't have happened.
They should have beaten the Eagles, but they lost due to their own mistakes which happens when a team is so young and inexperienced. If Marecic catches the ball at the end of the half, the Browns probably win because the Eagles wouldn't have gotten the ball back and thus wouldn't have scored. If Fort makes that easy INT at the end of the game in the endzone, the Browns would have won.
It's quite clear to me that the Browns are not the least talented team in the league. It's also quite clear that many of you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the Browns when you say their only good players are Thomas, Mack and Haden.
Anyway, I'm not sure who the least talented team is. I'd say the worst team this season might be the Chiefs, but I don't think they're the least talented. I think they're struggling mainyl due to poor coaching, although I do think Cheifs fans highly overrate their talent.
Maybe the Jaguars are the least talented team. The only positions I'd say the Jaguars are definitely better at are RB (for now... Richardson has the talent to be just as good or better than MJD) and FS. |
While I agree that the Browns aren't the least talented team in the league (my vote would go to the Colts or Jaguars), whenever I read your diatribes aimed at everyone who dares underrate the winless Cleveland Browns, I'm reminded of this quote:
"You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig."
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johndeere1707
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 5285
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Miami or Indy
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DawgX
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 9909
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | DawgX wrote: | It's hilarious how little people know about the Browns.
Weeden has looked good outside of week one. If you exclude week one, his stats are: 59 CMP%, 879 yards (293 YPG), 3 TDs and 3 INTs. That's pretty good for a rookie and much better than he's given credit for.
Richardson has the talent to become a top 2-3 running back in the league.
Thomas and Mack are both elite offensive linemen. Schwartz looks like he'll be one of the better RTs in the league.
Sheard had a monster rookie year. I think he led the league in forced fumbles. Rubin & Taylor form for one of the better DT duos in the league and Taylor will only get better as gains experience. Winn has been great, especially for a rookie sixth-round pick. He looks like he was a first or second-round pick. Hughes has been good as well. Once Taylor returns, the Browns could very well have the best DT unit with these four guys.
Jackson is extremely underrated and has been one of the best MLBs since last season. He already has three sacks and two interceptions.
Has anyone seen Craig Robertson? He's been very good, especially for an UDFA. Eagles fans will tell you that LJ Fort is pretty good as well and he's a rookie UDFA.
Haden is a top 3-5 cornerback and should only get better since he's only in his third season. Ward had a disappointing second season but has really improved this year. He's one of the better strong safeties in the league.
Cleveland's WRs are far from proven but have a lot of potential. Little was second in the league in receptions for rookie WRs... behind only AJ Green. Massaquoi has taken a big step this season. Benjamin has a lot of potential as does Gordon and Jordan Cameron.
The Browns have much more proven talent than people realize and they also have a lot of potential.
It's funny, I remember there was a thread awhile back where people were asked which team they knew the least about and many people said the Browns. If they admit they don't know anything about the Browns, then they shouldn't say Cleveland is the least talented team since they don't know what they're talking about. The Browns are 0-4 but they're also the youngest team in the league. They had a chance to win every game they've played and there's a good chance they would have beaten Cincinnati (and maybe even Baltimore) if Haden were playing since the biggest reason they lost those games was due to giving up big plays through the air. If Haden were playing, I bet many of those big plays wouldn't have happened.
They should have beaten the Eagles, but they lost due to their own mistakes which happens when a team is so young and inexperienced. If Marecic catches the ball at the end of the half, the Browns probably win because the Eagles wouldn't have gotten the ball back and thus wouldn't have scored. If Fort makes that easy INT at the end of the game in the endzone, the Browns would have won.
It's quite clear to me that the Browns are not the least talented team in the league. It's also quite clear that many of you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the Browns when you say their only good players are Thomas, Mack and Haden.
Anyway, I'm not sure who the least talented team is. I'd say the worst team this season might be the Chiefs, but I don't think they're the least talented. I think they're struggling mainyl due to poor coaching, although I do think Cheifs fans highly overrate their talent.
Maybe the Jaguars are the least talented team. The only positions I'd say the Jaguars are definitely better at are RB (for now... Richardson has the talent to be just as good or better than MJD) and FS. |
While I agree that the Browns aren't the least talented team in the league (my vote would go to the Colts or Jaguars), whenever I read your diatribes aimed at everyone who dares underrate the winless Cleveland Browns, I'm reminded of this quote:
"You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig." |
I get annoyed simply because it's obvious most people don't know what their talking about when it comes to the Brwons. If they'd make a legitimate arguement, the fine. But they usually make ridiculous comments like saying their only good players are Haden, Thomas and Mack and the rest are scrubs.
I'm not saying the Browns are a good team, but they're certainly not the least talented. The talent is there for sure... it's just a matter as to if they can put it all together.
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El ramster
Joined: 13 May 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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The Browns aren't the youngest team in the league.
The Rams are. As far as talent goes and looking at the future
its the Raiders for me. Clev has underrated talent. But it means
nothing without the Dubs. Love Haden-Rich-Thomas-Taylor combo.
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39549
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| From a roster standpoint, i do agree, there are teams that I would rank as worse than the Browns. However, talent should go beyond the players on the field and perhaps should at least consider coaching. What good is talent if that talent cant produce. In the Browns case, they probably have one of the worst coaching staffs in the league. |
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Frank Costello
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I said the Browns, but I pointed towards your FO and coaching staff more so. I just don't like the direction they're taking that team.
Very solid defense, but I can't for the life of me understand how they did not address their WR issues more. That group is just out right bad and mediocre at best if you ask me.
I think the Browns have more future talent across the board then the Raiders, but they both suffer from bad GMs and Head Coaches.
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40090
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| DawgX wrote: | It's hilarious how little people know about the Browns.
Weeden has looked good outside of week one. If you exclude week one, his stats are: 59 CMP%, 879 yards (293 YPG), 3 TDs and 3 INTs. That's pretty good for a rookie and much better than he's given credit for.
Richardson has the talent to become a top 2-3 running back in the league.
Thomas and Mack are both elite offensive linemen. Schwartz looks like he'll be one of the better RTs in the league.
Sheard had a monster rookie year. I think he led the league in forced fumbles. Rubin & Taylor form for one of the better DT duos in the league and Taylor will only get better as gains experience. Winn has been great, especially for a rookie sixth-round pick. He looks like he was a first or second-round pick. Hughes has been good as well. Once Taylor returns, the Browns could very well have the best DT unit with these four guys.
Jackson is extremely underrated and has been one of the best MLBs since last season. He already has three sacks and two interceptions.
Has anyone seen Craig Robertson? He's been very good, especially for an UDFA. Eagles fans will tell you that LJ Fort is pretty good as well and he's a rookie UDFA.
Haden is a top 3-5 cornerback and should only get better since he's only in his third season. Ward had a disappointing second season but has really improved this year. He's one of the better strong safeties in the league.
Cleveland's WRs are far from proven but have a lot of potential. Little was second in the league in receptions for rookie WRs... behind only AJ Green. Massaquoi has taken a big step this season. Benjamin has a lot of potential as does Gordon and Jordan Cameron.
The Browns have much more proven talent than people realize and they also have a lot of potential.
It's funny, I remember there was a thread awhile back where people were asked which team they knew the least about and many people said the Browns. If they admit they don't know anything about the Browns, then they shouldn't say Cleveland is the least talented team since they don't know what they're talking about. The Browns are 0-4 but they're also the youngest team in the league. They had a chance to win every game they've played and there's a good chance they would have beaten Cincinnati (and maybe even Baltimore) if Haden were playing since the biggest reason they lost those games was due to giving up big plays through the air. If Haden were playing, I bet many of those big plays wouldn't have happened.
They should have beaten the Eagles, but they lost due to their own mistakes which happens when a team is so young and inexperienced. If Marecic catches the ball at the end of the half, the Browns probably win because the Eagles wouldn't have gotten the ball back and thus wouldn't have scored. If Fort makes that easy INT at the end of the game in the endzone, the Browns would have won.
It's quite clear to me that the Browns are not the least talented team in the league. It's also quite clear that many of you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the Browns when you say their only good players are Thomas, Mack and Haden.
Anyway, I'm not sure who the least talented team is. I'd say the worst team this season might be the Chiefs, but I don't think they're the least talented. I think they're struggling mainyl due to poor coaching, although I do think Cheifs fans highly overrate their talent.
Maybe the Jaguars are the least talented team. The only positions I'd say the Jaguars are definitely better at are RB (for now... Richardson has the talent to be just as good or better than MJD) and FS. |
Here is the problem...
Most of the players is based on what COULD be....not what actually is.
Potential is just unreached talent.
You mention Jacksonville...
Weeden is in the same boat as Gabbert right now.
Richardson has potnetial to be as good as MJD, but at this point, is not.
The Jags are at least slightly better at WR/TE.
The Browns have Thomas and Mack and they make the Browns line better, but Monroe and Nweneri are pretty damn good themselves so its not a huge difference.
On the DLine...DTs are a push. I completely disagree that Taylor and Rubin are one of the better DT combos. THEY COULD BE, but Rubin is just good and while Taylor flashed major potnetial at times wasnt as good as some Browns fans made him out to be. I might give the Browns the slight edge, but not significant.
Sheard is better than any DE the Jags have, so edge goes to them there.
Jags have a better LB corps
Browns have a better secondary mainly due to Haden.
So Im not sure how you can get up in arms about people claiming the Browns are the least talented. I dont think they are, but most of the talent you seem to be pimping still has just as much to prove as the Jags, who you claim are the least talented.
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BaltimoreTerp
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
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Location: Brooklyn, New York
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| DawgX wrote: | I get annoyed simply because it's obvious most people don't know what their talking about when it comes to the Brwons. If they'd make a legitimate arguement, the fine. But they usually make ridiculous comments like saying their only good players are Haden, Thomas and Mack and the rest are scrubs.
I'm not saying the Browns are a good team, but they're certainly not the least talented. The talent is there for sure... it's just a matter as to if they can put it all together. |
And that's all fine and good, but aside from the fact that this sort of feels like debating who the tallest midget is, the fact is that the Browns haven't given anyone much of a reason to care that much about them or the majority of the talent you listed. That line about them being the youngest team in the league keeps getting trotted out as if it's a virtue or at least an excuse, a reason to buy into their future, but the fact is that youth does not automatically equal talent. The Browns have some good players for sure: Rubin, Thomas, Sheard, Haden, Mack, D'Qwell, Richardson, and Winn are all players that I think deserve a lot of respect. The defense in particular shows promise.
But aside from that, you just spent like 80 paragraphs naming any player under 26 who has played a snap for the Brown and insisted that they show 'potential,' that simply because a guy like Jordan Cameron exists and happens to be young, he is therefore talented in a way that separates him from any other player in the NFL. Players like that don't matter. Craig Robertson? LJ Fort? These are young guys who make occasional plays. Every team has these players. They are replaceable. They will be forgotten. Beating your drum about the fact that they exist doesn't establish much credibility in the Browns' future. A lot of young players who are bad turn into older players who are bad. It just seems like the threshold for showing 'promise' is so abysmally low, that all you have to do is have one or two good plays out there and all of a sudden you've got talent and potential worth noticing, and that's what every team does with their young guys, but the fact is they will come and go and these moral victories will count for nothing. You don't think the Jags don't have the same sort of players? Or the Colts?
It's especially worse with fans of teams that are bad, because any player who looks like he has half a pulse looks a lot better than the crap around him and all of a sudden thoroughly average players are getting pimped out as if they're actually worth caring about.
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DawgX
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Frank Costello wrote: | I said the Browns, but I pointed towards your FO and coaching staff more so. I just don't like the direction they're taking that team.
Very solid defense, but I can't for the life of me understand how they did not address their WR issues more. That group is just out right bad and mediocre at best if you ask me.
I think the Browns have more future talent across the board then the Raiders, but they both suffer from bad GMs and Head Coaches. |
Clevland's GM, Tom Heckert, is actually quite good.
FourThree, I realize a lot of Cleveland's talent is unproven. But like I said, they do have a lot more proven talent than people realize. Besides, there's plenty of other teams who don't have proven talent but have potential.
Weeden has been much better than Gabbert was in his rookie year. Week one was Weeden's only really bad game. How are the Jags slightly better at WR/TE?
How is Jacksonville's LB corps better? Please explain. 'Cause I don't see it at all.
You're not convincing me when you're not giving much reasoning.
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sp6488
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | DawgX wrote: | I get annoyed simply because it's obvious most people don't know what their talking about when it comes to the Brwons. If they'd make a legitimate arguement, the fine. But they usually make ridiculous comments like saying their only good players are Haden, Thomas and Mack and the rest are scrubs.
I'm not saying the Browns are a good team, but they're certainly not the least talented. The talent is there for sure... it's just a matter as to if they can put it all together. |
And that's all fine and good, but aside from the fact that this sort of feels like debating who the tallest midget is, the fact is that the Browns haven't given anyone much of a reason to care that much about them or the majority of the talent you listed. That line about them being the youngest team in the league keeps getting trotted out as if it's a virtue or at least an excuse, a reason to buy into their future, but the fact is that youth does not automatically equal talent. The Browns have some good players for sure: Rubin, Thomas, Sheard, Haden, Mack, D'Qwell, Richardson, and Winn are all players that I think deserve a lot of respect. The defense in particular shows promise.
But aside from that, you just spent like 80 paragraphs naming any player under 26 who has played a snap for the Brown and insisted that they show 'potential,' that simply because a guy like Jordan Cameron exists and happens to be young, he is therefore talented in a way that separates him from any other player in the NFL. Players like that don't matter. Craig Robertson? LJ Fort? These are young guys who make occasional plays. Every team has these players. They are replaceable. They will be forgotten. Beating your drum about the fact that they exist doesn't establish much credibility in the Browns' future. A lot of young players who are bad turn into older players who are bad. It just seems like the threshold for showing 'promise' is so abysmally low, that all you have to do is have one or two good plays out there and all of a sudden you've got talent and potential worth noticing, and that's what every team does with their young guys, but the fact is they will come and go and these moral victories will count for nothing. You don't think the Jags don't have the same sort of players? Or the Colts?
It's especially worse with fans of teams that are bad, because any player who looks like he has half a pulse looks a lot better than the crap around him and all of a sudden thoroughly average players are getting pimped out as if they're actually worth caring about. |
I agree with this assessment. Furthermore, there's a lot of saying "Team X [in this case the Browns] isn't the least talented, players A, B and C are very good." That's fine to say, but unless one can point to a team that they are indeed more talented than, it's very hard to make that argument. Also, every team is going to at least have a few bright spots, especially if they've been bad and have been picking high-talent/potential players at the top of the draft.
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