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A closer look at the real problem with this football team…

 
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3296
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:27 am    Post subject: A closer look at the real problem with this football team… Reply with quote

For a moment let’s forget about the bounty suspensions. The absence of Sean Payton, the implementation of a major change of defensive philosophy under Spags and so on and so forth.

Remove all the negativity surrounding this franchise for just a second and look at this team and tell me what you see.

I see a talented football team with quality depth. The problem is that there are about 12-14 teams in the NFL that can say that.

So… what’s missing from this squad?

PLAYMAKERS

Even with the presence of Payton our defensive woes would still exist. Spags defensive scheme is built to operate behind a fierce pass rush from his front 4 down lineman. We ALL knew this, we also all knew we didn’t have the type of players Spags requires to make his defensive go. Will Smith is past his prime and is to out of shape and lacks burst to play in this scheme, Sedrick Ellis is a bust plain and simple, Broderick Bunkley was NEVER touted as a pass rusher and Cam Jordan isn’t far enough along in his development from the transition from college 34 defensive end to a 43 LDE in the NFL (forgot about that one ugh?)

Besides the fact that our defensive line personnel is inadequate for this scheme, Spags also requires defensive secondary players who possess scheme discipline and understand zone concepts. The Saints currently have neither!

This secondary under Greg Williams for too long were allowed to play extremely loose with ZERO accountability. Their attacking live by the blitz die by the blitz concepts created many bad habits in the way these guys play this game. So, what we have is a bunch of talented but undisciplined and rookie defensive backs who are constantly being caught out of position and no pass rush upfront to make up for their mistakes.

Still there is hope… the talent is there, but it will take time to master this scheme and for Spags to correct a lot of bad habits engrained into these guys from the previous defensive coordinator.

Offensively we miss Payton’s play calling but this squad still has talent and depth. Sure the run game in nonexistent but even at times under Payton that was the case (except in 09).

But back to the real problem with this team (as I see it)…

Lack of PLAYMAKERS, This team does not have that WOW factor. It’s just a bunch of solid football players but in this league that just isn’t enough sometimes. “Talent wins out”, that’s a phrase you hear around the NFL a lot and that’s because it’s true.

So why the lack of PLAYMAKERS?

Here’s how I see it… 85-90% of NFL teams acquire their PLAYMAKERS through the draft, especially in the 1st round. For all the talk of the hidden gems Loomis and Payton has found in the latter rounds of the draft, there is a big glaring weakness to this duo’s game and it’s beginning to rear its ugly head.

The following is a list of our 1st round selections since Loomis and Payton teamed up in Nawlins…

2006 – Reggie Bush
No doubt Reggie was a playmaker but can any of us say he became the type of player we all thought he would? Not even Reggie would say that, bottom line though is that he’s no longer on this team so even if he is a playmaker now, he’s not our playmaker.

2007 – Robert Meachem
While Meach stretched the field well for us, he never became the wideout we all thought we were getting. Hell, during Meach’s time here he never even threatened for a starting gig in this offense.

2008 – Big Sed Ellis
This Sunday I want you to watch Big Sed, see how he gets blown off the line of scrimmage 3-5 yards almost every play. This is not the type of effort you expect out of a defensive lineman you draft #7 overall.

2009 – Malcolm Jenkins
Ya know, all I keep hearing from everyone it seems is about how talented Jenkins is and how he’s a future all-pro at FS but then I watch him play and all I see is an undisciplined player who NEVER brings is arms to a tackle, has no ball skills and is constantly out of position. The talent is there but when do we stop waiting for him to put it together?

2010 – P-Rob
Patrick Robinson’s play of late has him the closest on this list to becoming the only playmaker on it in my book. He’s not there yet but if his progress continues he very well could be the Payton/Loomis eras only 1st round playmaker thus far.

2011 – Cam Jordan & Mark Ingram
Cameron Jordan is not a playmaker and in his defense, he wasn’t drafted to be one. There is a reason Jordan slipped to the 24th selection. All scouts knew he was a big powerful base defensive end with great run stopping potential but he is an edge setter not one who will threaten the edge. Mark Ingram on the other hand was drafted to be a playmaker and weather through the Saints offensive staff fault or his own he has been a disappointment thus far.

While in no way am I implying that Loomis or Payton be fired, it’s just something worth pointing out, while the Saints have a few PLAYMAKERS in Jimmy Graham, Darren Sproles & Drew Brees… Until they quit missing on 1st round prospects this team will continue to be exactly what they are, a very good team but lacking the talent to separate from the pack.

What say you…?

WHODAT
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're due for a playmaker, hope it happens this draft.
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Raves


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Joined: 03 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jenkins was great coming from Ohio State, but they made him undisciplined via greg williams
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TE Jimmy Graham-86 rec, 1215 yds, 16 TDs
WR Kenny Still-34 rec, 641 yds, 5 TDs
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jenkins either never brings his arm on a tackle, or only brings his arms on a tackle. He either goes for the big hit, or the arm tackle.
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SWATcha


Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 1772
Location: Sacto, CA.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Jenkins either never brings his arm on a tackle, or only brings his arms on a tackle. He either goes for the big hit, or the arm tackle.


I don't know what happened to Jenkins, but he's garbage now imo. Can't cover, can't tackle, can't make INTs, can't take proper angles, list goes on and on.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SWATcha wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Jenkins either never brings his arm on a tackle, or only brings his arms on a tackle. He either goes for the big hit, or the arm tackle.


I don't know what happened to Jenkins, but he's garbage now imo. Can't cover, can't tackle, can't make INTs, can't take proper angles, list goes on and on.


Gregg Williams, they let players get undisciplined and get bad habits. I think playing under Spags will help in that regard to get players more disciplined and breaking bad habits.

That goes for almost everyone on the defense, not just Jenkins.
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2013 Adopt-A-Saint
TE Jimmy Graham-86 rec, 1215 yds, 16 TDs
WR Kenny Still-34 rec, 641 yds, 5 TDs
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malcolm Jenkins is a bust, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with Gregg Williams, he was never good, we all over hyped a few good games he had 3 seasons ago. He takes poor angles, can't tackle, constantly gets burned and is often out of position. The guy does literally nothing at an above average level.
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sputney23


Joined: 17 Jan 2008
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Location: G-Bay,Bama
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Malcolm Jenkins is a bust, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with Gregg Williams, he was never good, we all over hyped a few good games he had 3 seasons ago. He takes poor angles, can't tackle, constantly gets burned and is often out of position. The guy does literally nothing at an above average level.

As much as it hurts to say.. Your right.. I bought into the hype the previous off-seasons.. Sedrick Ellis saying how he was going to have a big year being in a scheme that favors the D-line..
Also Junior talking himself up on twitter saying 15 sacks or its a bust season for him..
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sputney23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Malcolm Jenkins is a bust, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with Gregg Williams, he was never good, we all over hyped a few good games he had 3 seasons ago. He takes poor angles, can't tackle, constantly gets burned and is often out of position. The guy does literally nothing at an above average level.

As much as it hurts to say.. Your right.. I bought into the hype the previous off-seasons.. Sedrick Ellis saying how he was going to have a big year being in a scheme that favors the D-line..
Also Junior talking himself up on twitter saying 15 sacks or its a bust season for him..

I honestly don't know whats wrong with Junior, he has all the pass rushing potential in the world. I can't seem to figure out why he hasn't been getting to the QB more. He had 4 sacks last year in VERY limited playing time, yet isn't getting pressure at all this year.
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sputney23


Joined: 17 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
sputney23 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Malcolm Jenkins is a bust, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with Gregg Williams, he was never good, we all over hyped a few good games he had 3 seasons ago. He takes poor angles, can't tackle, constantly gets burned and is often out of position. The guy does literally nothing at an above average level.

As much as it hurts to say.. Your right.. I bought into the hype the previous off-seasons.. Sedrick Ellis saying how he was going to have a big year being in a scheme that favors the D-line..
Also Junior talking himself up on twitter saying 15 sacks or its a bust season for him..

I honestly don't know whats wrong with Junior, he has all the pass rushing potential in the world. I can't seem to figure out why he hasn't been getting to the QB more. He had 4 sacks last year in VERY limited playing time, yet isn't getting pressure at all this year.

Apparently the players don't know either
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SaintsBeast


Joined: 30 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jenkins isn't really a bust. He made some freakin awesome plays the first year he came into the league. But, under Gregg Williams, who preached aggressiveness, pursuing the big play, and accountability on the front seven instead of the DBs, he outright SUCKS now. He's too easy to look off, and he doesn't tackle right. He gets burned, then gets up laughing, like it wasn't his fault. That's a very GW-trait right there. I'm praying that Spags brings him back to where he was, when he was considered a rising star at safety.
Sedrick Ellis... Man i cry as i type this, but he needs to go. He can't even play DE! What he's doing, that whole get-moved-back-every-play is a strategy that GW used to employ. In the words of my high school defensive coordinator, "A hole for a running back is a hole for a defensive player.". That was all well and good if he ate up the block, and had someone coming in to fill that hole. But that doesn't work any more! Spags runs a penetration-based DL scheme, but our entire defensive line, save for two or three of the younger guys, is lazy because of the habits that GW taught.
And honestly? If we had great or even really good linebackers, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because GW would still be our coordinator. Our LB core was, and still kinda is, LACKING. If we focus on getting playmakers this year, they need to be linebackers or pass rushing defensive linemen.

Look guys, I'm as frustrated as all of you are with the Saints' lack of success. Make all the jokes in the world about a top 10 pick, the brown paper bags, all of it. But in reality, i haven't really quit hoping for success. If there is one team in the NFL that can get out of this hole, it's the Saints. And if not, cut the losses, shed the players who can't make a positive impact for the team, and start rebuilding. Say all you want about "0-4 is really hard to get back from, last time that happened the Saints went 7-9". The fact of the matter is 0-4 doesn't automatically count us out of hosting our own Super Bowl. Have faith guys.
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Martez Wilson, DE: 1 Sack, 6 Tackles, 1 FF, 1 Punt Block
Will Smith, DE: 2 Sacks, 22 Tackles, 0 FF
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Beast...

While I have not and will never give up hope, I do feel the playoffs arwe a long shot to say the least. There is just far to much improvment on BOTH sides of the football to be made and the man we need to pull the strings isnt here.

However...

I DO NOT buy into this top 10 pick talk! While it would benfit us in the long run if we dont make the playoffs to have that pick. I just feel this team has to much talent and far to much fight to not go on some type of a run and make this thing intresting. These players will slowly begin to understand and pick up Spags scheme and will improve as the year goes on. The Offense' while not at its peak without Payton is still a potent one.

Having said all that, the dead weight has got to be trimed off this team! Namely...

Will Smith
Sedrick Ellis
Scott Shanle
Will Hearing
Chris Ivory (not his fault, just needs to be traded to peserve us a roster spot for an additional pass rusher for Spags).

and if they keep up there current play ya can add these to the list...

Garrett Hartley
Dave Thomas
Devery Henderson
Malcolm Jenkins (yep that's right, I said it!)

I will soon be posting my top 5 offseason moves the Saints should make to get back on top that i think is sure to ruffle some feathers... stay tuned!
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SaintsBeast


Joined: 30 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:

Devery Henderson


Man, if he can start getting some seperation from DBs, there is no way he we can cut him. He's made so many strides as far as catching the football is concerned, he's just gotta get open. I may change my opinion as the year goes on, but for now... I say i like him too much to drop him.
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2012 Adopt-A-Saint:
Martez Wilson, DE: 1 Sack, 6 Tackles, 1 FF, 1 Punt Block
Will Smith, DE: 2 Sacks, 22 Tackles, 0 FF
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaintsBeast wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:

Devery Henderson


Man, if he can start getting some seperation from DBs, there is no way he we can cut him. He's made so many strides as far as catching the football is concerned, he's just gotta get open. I may change my opinion as the year goes on, but for now... I say i like him too much to drop him.


I love Devery as a person and a player but his time is coming to an end here. His ultimate job is to stretch the defense but it is clear he has lost a step or two. With the emergence of Joe Morgan and if his progress continues upward Devery will just fall into that category of "better to cut loose a guy a year to early than a year to late".

Sucks... but that's life in the NFL!
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