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Raiders need draft Geno Smith, Bray, Or Matt Barkley next.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5349
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Defense first b/c.... well, WE DON'T HAVE ONE. Geno Smith is overrated and doesn't play defense. No thanks.


Why is Geno overrated? Because he through 8 TDs last week? I mean the guy has always shown great skill for the position.

My draft board would look like this:

Premier passrusher
Trade down
Franchise QB

If I can't land a top flight, day 1 impact pass rusher w/ the pick. I look to trade back and add a second tier pass rusher or top flight CB. If no trade value comes my way, I take the franchise QB.

End of the day, you have to have a franchise QB to win consistently, so it's not the worst idea.


I really like that draft strategy.
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La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think we need to draft 2 pass rushing de's/lb's and 2 db's

with cp and tp in the fold we can build the team up first before we throw a new qb in this pile of trash and ruin him.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22112
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Defense first b/c.... well, WE DON'T HAVE ONE. Geno Smith is overrated and doesn't play defense. No thanks.


Why is Geno overrated? Because he through 8 TDs last week? I mean the guy has always shown great skill for the position.

My draft board would look like this:

Premier passrusher
Trade down
Franchise QB

If I can't land a top flight, day 1 impact pass rusher w/ the pick. I look to trade back and add a second tier pass rusher or top flight CB. If no trade value comes my way, I take the franchise QB.

End of the day, you have to have a franchise QB to win consistently, so it's not the worst idea.


Exactly why you said, last week. People are instantly busting ones over this guy, saying he should be a top overall pick etc etc. No.

He's a good passer and athlete but he has his issues also. Mid-first as of now and I would be willing to bet after some things are seen, he may fall back a little more. He's improved his deep balls but he still lofts them and locks onto WRs. I have, what I feel are legitimate issues, w/ his arm strength also. People are going to go crazy over his numbers and forget the fact that he's barely played a defense this season.


Doubtful, because he will start playing the meat of the big 12 from here on out. Texas this week has a good defense. If he manages similar success against K State, Texas, Oklahoma, etc. he'll prove he's worthy of a top selection.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Django wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Defense first b/c.... well, WE DON'T HAVE ONE. Geno Smith is overrated and doesn't play defense. No thanks.


Why is he overrated?

JTagg likes the Miami of Ohio QB more than Geno


I believe Dysert has more pro potential but Smith will be ready sooner. Better release, seems smarter on the field, better arm strength, better size, better mechanics....

It's not going to translate as him being better it's just what I've seen and my opinion on the matter.


I like Dysert. He's that second tier QB that will explode when it comes to Senior Bowl games, etc. Hope he stays under the radar as he'd be a nice pick last 1st or 2nd.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
i think we need to draft 2 pass rushing de's/lb's and 2 db's

with cp and tp in the fold we can build the team up first before we throw a new qb in this pile of trash and ruin him.


Best thing you can do is have an OC who can work with the young QB from day 1. No shuffling coaches around, etc. which just throw them off.
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Dcreek


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt Barkley isn't the most physically gifted QB but his accuracy and work ethic can't be over looked. He is a leader and is pro ready.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5754
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dcreek wrote:
Matt Barkley isn't the most physically gifted QB but his accuracy and work ethic can't be over looked. He is a leader and is pro ready.


Tom Brady was beanpole coming out, Peyton doesnt have the greatest arm in the league and never did, Brees was too short, Rodgers sat for 4 years, Rivers has a bad throwing motion and can barely move.

Point is, accuracy, work ethic, pro ready mean alot. ALOT.. I haven't watched any of the QBs coming out so I can't say anything from having seen with my own eyes.

But if it came down to it, I'd rather the guy with a chance at being a killer passer than the athletic freak 10 times out of 10. Killer passers win SBs, freaks win games and fan love.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5349
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Dcreek wrote:
Matt Barkley isn't the most physically gifted QB but his accuracy and work ethic can't be over looked. He is a leader and is pro ready.


Tom Brady was beanpole coming out, Peyton doesnt have the greatest arm in the league and never did, Brees was too short, Rodgers sat for 4 years, Rivers has a bad throwing motion and can barely move.

Point is, accuracy, work ethic, pro ready mean alot. ALOT.. I haven't watched any of the QBs coming out so I can't say anything from having seen with my own eyes.

But if it came down to it, I'd rather the guy with a chance at being a killer passer than the athletic freak 10 times out of 10. Killer passers win SBs, freaks win games and fan love.


+1

I've been saying for a long time that I want a smart, accurate QB- not a rocket-armed, fast QB who struggles reading a defense and has accuracy issues. I dont know jack about Barkley, but if he is smart and accurate, plays in a pro offense, etc then I really like that. Its nice to have a guy with mobility or that can run a 4.4 40, but I want a guy who we can always count on to read the defense, make accurate throws, and make smart, meaningful plays.
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La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 2800
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Dcreek wrote:
Matt Barkley isn't the most physically gifted QB but his accuracy and work ethic can't be over looked. He is a leader and is pro ready.


Tom Brady was beanpole coming out, Peyton doesnt have the greatest arm in the league and never did, Brees was too short, Rodgers sat for 4 years, Rivers has a bad throwing motion and can barely move.

Point is, accuracy, work ethic, pro ready mean alot. ALOT.. I haven't watched any of the QBs coming out so I can't say anything from having seen with my own eyes.

But if it came down to it, I'd rather the guy with a chance at being a killer passer than the athletic freak 10 times out of 10. Killer passers win SBs, freaks win games and fan love.


+1

I've been saying for a long time that I want a smart, accurate QB- not a rocket-armed, fast QB who struggles reading a defense and has accuracy issues. I dont know jack about Barkley, but if he is smart and accurate, plays in a pro offense, etc then I really like that. Its nice to have a guy with mobility or that can run a 4.4 40, but I want a guy who we can always count on to read the defense, make accurate throws, and make smart, meaningful plays.


Barkley has a lot of good pieces around him. And because of that I feel he should be better. Watching him play I don't see that gamer. He manages it to me. Honestly I think Hes going to be another Brady Quinn.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14578
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Dcreek wrote:
Matt Barkley isn't the most physically gifted QB but his accuracy and work ethic can't be over looked. He is a leader and is pro ready.


Tom Brady was beanpole coming out, Peyton doesnt have the greatest arm in the league and never did, Brees was too short, Rodgers sat for 4 years, Rivers has a bad throwing motion and can barely move.

Point is, accuracy, work ethic, pro ready mean alot. ALOT.. I haven't watched any of the QBs coming out so I can't say anything from having seen with my own eyes.

But if it came down to it, I'd rather the guy with a chance at being a killer passer than the athletic freak 10 times out of 10. Killer passers win SBs, freaks win games and fan love.


+1

I've been saying for a long time that I want a smart, accurate QB- not a rocket-armed, fast QB who struggles reading a defense and has accuracy issues. I dont know jack about Barkley, but if he is smart and accurate, plays in a pro offense, etc then I really like that. Its nice to have a guy with mobility or that can run a 4.4 40, but I want a guy who we can always count on to read the defense, make accurate throws, and make smart, meaningful plays.


Barkley has a lot of good pieces around him. And because of that I feel he should be better. Watching him play I don't see that gamer. He manages it to me. Honestly I think Hes going to be another Brady Quinn.


agree. ive learned my lesson about supporting college players who shine on big teams. a lot of the time the team is a major factor in how good a certain prospect looks. show me that guy who shined with lesser talent around him and im good. in the nfl there is no guarantee that the nfl team they are drafted by will be better than their respective college team. btw i doubt we could beat usc right now.
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
i think we need to draft 2 pass rushing de's/lb's and 2 db's

with cp and tp in the fold we can build the team up first before we throw a new qb in this pile of trash and ruin him.


Best thing you can do is have an OC who can work with the young QB from day 1. No shuffling coaches around, etc. which just throw them off.


yea and untill we figure out knapp i dont think id want to bring in a new qb with him as oc.
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early43


Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1077
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dcreek wrote:
Matt Barkley isn't the most physically gifted QB but his accuracy and work ethic can't be over looked. He is a leader and is pro ready.


The scary part about that is they said the exact same thing about Matt Lienhert...
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reddevil


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 547
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Defense first b/c.... well, WE DON'T HAVE ONE. Geno Smith is overrated and doesn't play defense. No thanks.


Why is Geno overrated? Because he through 8 TDs last week? I mean the guy has always shown great skill for the position.

My draft board would look like this:

Premier passrusher
Trade down
Franchise QB


If I can't land a top flight, day 1 impact pass rusher w/ the pick. I look to trade back and add a second tier pass rusher or top flight CB. If no trade value comes my way, I take the franchise QB.

End of the day, you have to have a franchise QB to win consistently, so it's not the worst idea.


I really like that draft strategy.


Me too. That is the precise order I would like us to go. Assuming we are picking early - if there is a blue chip pass-rusher, take him regardless of our depth issues. If he ain't there, trade back and get an upgrade at CB, LB D-Line or O-Line and get more picks for depth. If the trade doesn't happen then take a QB if he fits the bill rather than reaching for a need and spending a high pick on a position that doesn't warrant it.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do have a point that the new regime needs to bring in a young player that can be the face of the franchise moving forward but with all of our glaring needs on the defensive side of the ball I don't think we should spend an early pick on a quarterback.

Despite our lack of an offensive line, running game, and depleted receiving core, Palmer has still been solid and has pretty much been the only bright spot for our offense this season. I don't think very many quarterbacks in the NFL could play as well as he has considering our line can't block, we literally have no running game, and our offensive coordinator couldn't create an effective offensive game plan to save his family. A young rookie quarterback isn't going to help us for a couple of years and would more than likely bust if he played anytime soon considering the fact our offense around him would be terrible. I could see us making a move for a young quarterback early if he were a can't miss prospect like Andrew Luck but unfortunately there isn't a guy like that in this years class.

We have three sacks and zero interceptions this season through four games, that's absoultely pathetic considering a player like J.J. Watt has two times as many sacks as our entire defense combined.

The front office needs to improve our secondary and our pass rush this season before we begin to address anything else because if we don't we'll continue to be terrible.

Drafting a guy like Jarvis Jones, Dee Milliner, Keke Mingo, or Sam Montgomery would be much more beneficial for the team in the long run than drafting a developmental quarterback to sit behind Palmer who's already really solid.
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RaiderX


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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