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Raidin
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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Location: Dublin
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 Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Professor Oak wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | I can't be the only one seeing Mcfadden miss some opportunities out there. See the run at 5:05. There's a hole right in front of you dmac. At worst, the LB makes a one arm tackle and he gains a couple, instead he cuts to the outside and lose yardage. |
You're not, but other than a few plays vs Atlanta, he has pretty much had to do everything himself this season.
Sure we can nitpick a few plays from each game where he could have hit the hole, but the fact of the matter is this OL is not executing correctly or creating more holes on a consistent basis. I feel McFadden has become the scapegoat for that, and he doesn't deserve it. |
I've seen little blame placed McFaddens way, not yet anyone. I'm about to change that a bit.  McFaddens stats from last year
@Den - 22 attempts, 150yrds, 6.8vg. Longest runs 47 yards, two 20yards rushes
@Bills - 20 attempts, 70 yards, 3.6 avg. Long 14 yards
Jets - 19 attempts, 170 yards, 90 avg. Long of 70, 27 yards
NE - 14 attempts, 75 yards, 5.4 avg. Long of 41 yards
@Hou - 16 attempts, 51 yards, 3.2. Long of 20.
Browns - 20 attempts, 91 yards, 4.6 avg. Long of 24
Looking at those numbers there are two games he did poorly in, Bills and Texans. Excellent in Broncos and Jets. The noticeable thing for me is that when you take out McFaddens longest run the numbers are pretty brutal
@ Denver - 19 attempts with 3.3 avg
Bills - 20 attempts with 2.9avg
Jets - 17 attempts 4.2avg
NE - 13 attempts 2.6avg
Hou - 15 attempts 2avg
Browns - 19 attempts 3.4
Jets was still a good game, but the rest of them look indentical to this. Maybe there is actually very little difference in the quality of blocking(both years pretty terrible) but that the few times we created a hole last year, McFadden found it, where as this year expecpt for the Steelers game he hasn't found it.
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24557
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Well if you take away Jamaal Charles' long runs he's just as bad. But you don't. You can't just ignore a player's good plays when considering they're overall plays. That's the main flaw I see with that logic. But at the same time, I haven't been able to fully analyze the plays other than just watching Wiz every play the one time. I'm mad busy.
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Raidin
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4308
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Well if you take away Jamaal Charles' long runs he's just as bad. But you don't. You can't just ignore a player's good plays when considering they're overall plays. That's the main flaw I see with that logic. But at the same time, I haven't been able to fully analyze the plays other than just watching Wiz every play the one time. I'm mad busy. |
You also can't ignore the oline are making holes and McFadden isn't finding them. That can't be ignored either. The point is everyone is claiming the blocking this year is terrible compared to last year, I'm simply saying that maybe the blocking hasn't actually gotten any worse.
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 12720
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | Silver&Black88 wrote: | | Well if you take away Jamaal Charles' long runs he's just as bad. But you don't. You can't just ignore a player's good plays when considering they're overall plays. That's the main flaw I see with that logic. But at the same time, I haven't been able to fully analyze the plays other than just watching Wiz every play the one time. I'm mad busy. |
You also can't ignore the oline are making holes and McFadden isn't finding them. That can't be ignored either. The point is everyone is claiming the blocking this year is terrible compared to last year, I'm simply saying that maybe the blocking hasn't actually gotten any worse. |
Something got worse, that's for sure. I don't think the blocking is quite at the level it was last year, and maybe it's a lot worse but i really can't tell since i didn't analyze it last year and have just been able to look at it more in-depth thanks to your vids this year.
I do know what McFadden is good at though. He's good at hitting the hole with speed and power. He's good at out running the pursuit and turning the corner. Those things made him an effective PBS runner.
In the ZBS, he's asked to slide behind the developping blocking, pick the right gap when he sees it opening it up, then go full speed. That's something he has yet to show he can be good at.
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4152
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | Professor Oak wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | I can't be the only one seeing Mcfadden miss some opportunities out there. See the run at 5:05. There's a hole right in front of you dmac. At worst, the LB makes a one arm tackle and he gains a couple, instead he cuts to the outside and lose yardage. |
You're not, but other than a few plays vs Atlanta, he has pretty much had to do everything himself this season.
Sure we can nitpick a few plays from each game where he could have hit the hole, but the fact of the matter is this OL is not executing correctly or creating more holes on a consistent basis. I feel McFadden has become the scapegoat for that, and he doesn't deserve it. |
I've seen little blame placed McFaddens way, not yet anyone. I'm about to change that a bit. McFaddens stats from last year
@Den - 22 attempts, 150yrds, 6.8vg. Longest runs 47 yards, two 20yards rushes
@Bills - 20 attempts, 70 yards, 3.6 avg. Long 14 yards
Jets - 19 attempts, 170 yards, 90 avg. Long of 70, 27 yards
NE - 14 attempts, 75 yards, 5.4 avg. Long of 41 yards
@Hou - 16 attempts, 51 yards, 3.2. Long of 20.
Browns - 20 attempts, 91 yards, 4.6 avg. Long of 24
Looking at those numbers there are two games he did poorly in, Bills and Texans. Excellent in Broncos and Jets. The noticeable thing for me is that when you take out McFaddens longest run the numbers are pretty brutal
@ Denver - 19 attempts with 3.3 avg
Bills - 20 attempts with 2.9avg
Jets - 17 attempts 4.2avg
NE - 13 attempts 2.6avg
Hou - 15 attempts 2avg
Browns - 19 attempts 3.4
Jets was still a good game, but the rest of them look indentical to this. Maybe there is actually very little difference in the quality of blocking(both years pretty terrible) but that the few times we created a hole last year, McFadden found it, where as this year expecpt for the Steelers game he hasn't found it. |
You took away 3 runs for 87 yards in his opener against the Broncos. What do you expect his rushing numbers to look like when you take away his 3 best runs? lol
I wonder what Arian Foster's rushing numbers would look like this season if you did the same for his stats.
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Raidin
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | Professor Oak wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | I can't be the only one seeing Mcfadden miss some opportunities out there. See the run at 5:05. There's a hole right in front of you dmac. At worst, the LB makes a one arm tackle and he gains a couple, instead he cuts to the outside and lose yardage. |
You're not, but other than a few plays vs Atlanta, he has pretty much had to do everything himself this season.
Sure we can nitpick a few plays from each game where he could have hit the hole, but the fact of the matter is this OL is not executing correctly or creating more holes on a consistent basis. I feel McFadden has become the scapegoat for that, and he doesn't deserve it. |
I've seen little blame placed McFaddens way, not yet anyone. I'm about to change that a bit. McFaddens stats from last year
@Den - 22 attempts, 150yrds, 6.8vg. Longest runs 47 yards, two 20yards rushes
@Bills - 20 attempts, 70 yards, 3.6 avg. Long 14 yards
Jets - 19 attempts, 170 yards, 90 avg. Long of 70, 27 yards
NE - 14 attempts, 75 yards, 5.4 avg. Long of 41 yards
@Hou - 16 attempts, 51 yards, 3.2. Long of 20.
Browns - 20 attempts, 91 yards, 4.6 avg. Long of 24
Looking at those numbers there are two games he did poorly in, Bills and Texans. Excellent in Broncos and Jets. The noticeable thing for me is that when you take out McFaddens longest run the numbers are pretty brutal
@ Denver - 19 attempts with 3.3 avg
Bills - 20 attempts with 2.9avg
Jets - 17 attempts 4.2avg
NE - 13 attempts 2.6avg
Hou - 15 attempts 2avg
Browns - 19 attempts 3.4
Jets was still a good game, but the rest of them look indentical to this. Maybe there is actually very little difference in the quality of blocking(both years pretty terrible) but that the few times we created a hole last year, McFadden found it, where as this year expecpt for the Steelers game he hasn't found it. |
You took away 3 runs for 87 yards in his opener against the Broncos. What do you expect his rushing numbers to look like when you take away his 3 best runs? lol
I wonder what Arian Foster's rushing numbers would look like this season if you did the same for his stats. |
And if McFadden actually hit one of those holes are Oline are creating would it certainly make our Oline great blockers? I don't think so. I suppose at least it would make McFadden a better runner. Do you think our run blocking against the Steelers was excellent? Foster numbers aren't great, 3.9 yards per carry is pretty bad. Only .8 better than DMAC. Last year it would have made a huge difference, he had 7 carries for 20+yard and 2 40+ yard carries in 278 attempts. DMAC last year had 8 20+ yard carries and 3 40+ yard carries in 113 attempts.
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Last edited by Raidin on Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I also can't help but wonder how Goodson has such a higher average than McFadden. Even if you take away his long run, he's still at 4.6/carry. Obviously, the sample is much smaller but still, is it just a coincidence?
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4152
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Raidin wrote: | | Professor Oak wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | I can't be the only one seeing Mcfadden miss some opportunities out there. See the run at 5:05. There's a hole right in front of you dmac. At worst, the LB makes a one arm tackle and he gains a couple, instead he cuts to the outside and lose yardage. |
You're not, but other than a few plays vs Atlanta, he has pretty much had to do everything himself this season.
Sure we can nitpick a few plays from each game where he could have hit the hole, but the fact of the matter is this OL is not executing correctly or creating more holes on a consistent basis. I feel McFadden has become the scapegoat for that, and he doesn't deserve it. |
I've seen little blame placed McFaddens way, not yet anyone. I'm about to change that a bit. McFaddens stats from last year
@Den - 22 attempts, 150yrds, 6.8vg. Longest runs 47 yards, two 20yards rushes
@Bills - 20 attempts, 70 yards, 3.6 avg. Long 14 yards
Jets - 19 attempts, 170 yards, 90 avg. Long of 70, 27 yards
NE - 14 attempts, 75 yards, 5.4 avg. Long of 41 yards
@Hou - 16 attempts, 51 yards, 3.2. Long of 20.
Browns - 20 attempts, 91 yards, 4.6 avg. Long of 24
Looking at those numbers there are two games he did poorly in, Bills and Texans. Excellent in Broncos and Jets. The noticeable thing for me is that when you take out McFaddens longest run the numbers are pretty brutal
@ Denver - 19 attempts with 3.3 avg
Bills - 20 attempts with 2.9avg
Jets - 17 attempts 4.2avg
NE - 13 attempts 2.6avg
Hou - 15 attempts 2avg
Browns - 19 attempts 3.4
Jets was still a good game, but the rest of them look indentical to this. Maybe there is actually very little difference in the quality of blocking(both years pretty terrible) but that the few times we created a hole last year, McFadden found it, where as this year expecpt for the Steelers game he hasn't found it. |
You took away 3 runs for 87 yards in his opener against the Broncos. What do you expect his rushing numbers to look like when you take away his 3 best runs? lol
I wonder what Arian Foster's rushing numbers would look like this season if you did the same for his stats. |
And if McFadden actually hit one of those holes are Oline are creating would it certainly make our Oline great blockers? I don't think so. I suppose at least it would make McFadden a better runner. Do you think our run blocking against the Steelers was excellent? Foster numbers aren't great, 3.9 yards per carry is pretty bad. Only .8 better than DMAC. Last year it would have made a huge difference, he had 7 carries for 20+yard and 2 40+ yard carries in 278 attempts. DMAC last year had 8 20+ yard carries and 3 40+ yard carries in 113 attempts. |
McFadden lead the league in rushing last season, while also having the highest YPC average. He created big plays at a rate that no other back could match. That's because he also lead the league in YPC on inside runs and 1st down runs. Two very important running factors that don't appear to be a priority in this season's offense.
I'd like to see some bigger holes opened with a lot more regularity before I put the blame on McFadden for making a few questionable cuts. The Falcons and Steelers games were both the best I've seen the line block, and he would have produced fine in both if not for holding calls bringing back his best runs against the Falcons. Those are the 2 games I've been most pleased with running the ball because we actually stuck with it.
I brought up Foster because he became a star in the Texans ZBS, yet he's having a poor season. Sometimes the opportunities just aren't there, and I'm sure if you took away his big runs, you could make it look like he hasn't had any success.
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | I also can't help but wonder how Goodson has such a higher average than McFadden. Even if you take away his long run, he's still at 4.6/carry. Obviously, the sample is much smaller but still, is it just a coincidence? |
1. You mentioned the sample size. Are defenses expecting a RB with so little carries to run it?
2. How much fresher is he?
3. He has ZBS experience and is actually a good RB.
4. Knapp needs to give him more carries, regardless of if DMC's playing well or not. It's ridiculous how little he and Jones are being used. smh
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| candyman93 wrote: | | Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders |
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Chali21
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1707
Location: Cali
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | I also can't help but wonder how Goodson has such a higher average than McFadden. Even if you take away his long run, he's still at 4.6/carry. Obviously, the sample is much smaller but still, is it just a coincidence? |
1. You mentioned the sample size. Are defenses expecting a RB with so little carries to run it?
2. How much fresher is he?
3. He has ZBS experience and is actually a good RB.
4. Knapp needs to give him more carries, regardless of if DMC's playing well or not. It's ridiculous how little he and Jones are being used. smh |
This. It's interesting to me many people are quick to make a switch at QB but we will hold on to McFadden til the cows come home. |
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4152
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Chali21 wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | I also can't help but wonder how Goodson has such a higher average than McFadden. Even if you take away his long run, he's still at 4.6/carry. Obviously, the sample is much smaller but still, is it just a coincidence? |
1. You mentioned the sample size. Are defenses expecting a RB with so little carries to run it?
2. How much fresher is he?
3. He has ZBS experience and is actually a good RB.
4. Knapp needs to give him more carries, regardless of if DMC's playing well or not. It's ridiculous how little he and Jones are being used. smh |
This. It's interesting to me many people are quick to make a switch at QB but we will hold on to McFadden til the cows come home. |
Where did I say we should make a switch at RB? Giving other RB's carries is normal and should be happening regardless of how DMC is playing.
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24557
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | I wonder what Arian Foster's rushing numbers would look like this season if you did the same for his stats. |
Still wouldn't matter, his blocking is still that much better.
The running game falling apart isn't all on the blocking, Raidin has a point. McFadden just isn't that good in a ZBS. But at the same time, isn't it the job of a coach to play to his players strengths? Especially when DMC has shown how good he can be when you do? I'm not saying it should go that way for every player, but McFadden is arguably the most talented player on our roster. He's just wasting away in a scheme that doesn't work for him and evidently doesn't seem to work that well for our offensive line either.
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Chali21
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1707
Location: Cali
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Chali21 wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | I also can't help but wonder how Goodson has such a higher average than McFadden. Even if you take away his long run, he's still at 4.6/carry. Obviously, the sample is much smaller but still, is it just a coincidence? |
1. You mentioned the sample size. Are defenses expecting a RB with so little carries to run it?
2. How much fresher is he?
3. He has ZBS experience and is actually a good RB.
4. Knapp needs to give him more carries, regardless of if DMC's playing well or not. It's ridiculous how little he and Jones are being used. smh |
This. It's interesting to me many people are quick to make a switch at QB but we will hold on to McFadden til the cows come home. |
Where did I say we should make a switch at RB? Giving other RB's carries is normal and should be happening regardless of how DMC is playing. |
I didn't say that you wanted to, I'm sorry if I came across that way I feel DMC is ineffective, Goodson has been effective. Lets see what he can do.
And...
Problem is we don't run the ball enough. when was the last time we ran it 25+ times? We abandon the run to quick, why it's really ineffective and we get in holes quick. I'm sure the staff wants to put someone else in, for relief but we don't run enough. |
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Darbsk
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 612
Location: Wales, UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | I also can't help but wonder how Goodson has such a higher average than McFadden. Even if you take away his long run, he's still at 4.6/carry. Obviously, the sample is much smaller but still, is it just a coincidence? |
1. You mentioned the sample size. Are defenses expecting a RB with so little carries to run it?
2. How much fresher is he?
3. He has ZBS experience and is actually a good RB.
4. Knapp needs to give him more carries, regardless of if DMC's playing well or not. It's ridiculous how little he and Jones are being used. smh |
From the Falcons tape it looks as though when DMac is in the LBs are tight to the line and pinched looking for the run, a couple of the runs Goodson had looks like the LBs were spread maybe in pass formation and slower to react, giving him more space to work in. Also i think Goodson seems to be more patient waiting for his blockers. On the one big run Goodson had to the right Wiz sealed of his man and Briesel laid an excellent block on the LB and Goodson simply ran the right way. Part decent blocking, part defence, part good running.
After watching this i'm a little more optimistic that Veldheer and Wiz can adapt but Coop and Big Willie really struggled IMO.
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Rolni
Joined: 08 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:36 am Post subject: |
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The big difference between DMC and Goodson is when Goodson is in the D looks for the pass more, so he has more room.
The LB's fall back and needs more time to close on him.
With this said we need more carries from Goodson and heck we should give some carries to Jones too.
DMC would be fresher. I also wanna see DMC move out in the slot as a reciever...
I wanna see us lining up Reece at FB, Goodson and DMC at Rb, then send DMC out...that could confuse the D's...
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