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Coaches/GM's on the hotseat?
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
green24 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
green24 wrote:
khodder wrote:
chris00cm wrote:
Mike Tannenbaum needs to go. The Jets arguably have the least talent in the league. It's a shame because the Jets were one of the best teams in the league a couple years ago. Now their destined for a top 10 pick and are a talent depleted team.


They have not assembled very little on offense via the draft, his first year was good (Mangold and Ferguson in the first round) but outside of that if you look at how things have gone via the draft on offense since Mike took over you will see;

2006 - Kellen Clemens (2nd), Brad Smith (4th), Leon Washington (4th), Jason Pociask (5th)
2007 - Chansi Stuckey (7th)
2008 - Dustin Keller (1st), Erik Ainge (5th), Marcus Henry (6th), Nate Garner (7th)
2009 - Mark Sanchez (1st), Shonn Greene (3rd)
2010 - Joe McKnight (4th), John Connor (5th)
2011 - Bilal Powell (4th), Jeremy Kerley (5th), Greg McElroy (7th), Scottie McKnight (7th)

It may be a bit early to judge the 11 class and they look to be getting some prodcution from Powell and Kerley, though not top quality porduction.

The other issue is that in 09-10 combined they had 7 draft selections.

If the Jets ever want to improve they need to be smarter about who and what they are adding in the draft and who and what they trade away their draft picks for.


Tannenbaum's first two drafts (2006 and 2007) were arguably the best in the NFL during their respective years. He was able to draft Nick Mangold, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Leon Washington, and Brad Smith in 2006 and Darrelle Revis and David Harris in 2007.


Leon Washington and Brad Smith are specialists players at the most. And neither are with the Jets today. So...


They were more than worth the pick when they were with the Jets.


But they're not with the Jets now, which is kind of the point. Unless drafting and developing players for other teams to use is what teams are going for nowadays, those were wasted picks.


A draft should be judged based on how good each of the players turned out to be, not how long they stayed with the team. A team's ability to re-sign its players should not correlate with how its drafts are judged.

That would be like saying the Cardinals were smart to draft Leinart over Cutler because Leinart stayed in Arizona longer than Cutler stayed in Denver.


First sentence: I disagree 1,000%. The whole point of the draft is to build your team for the long term, not to have a guy for 3 years, develop him, then let him go play meaningful football for somebody else. Re-signing your core, drafted player is VERY MUCH a big part of how draft's should and are judged.

Second: Neither team there was very smart. We drafted a player who never panned out and Denver helped draft a player that Chicago now uses.
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Zithers


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Zithers wrote:
rivera and hurney aren't anywhere near getting fired.


Sucks. LB'er over DT? And why do Rivera still have McDermott as DC?


kuechly has played well. ron and dwan edwards have played well. greg hardy moves inside in the nickel and has been effective. not to mention without keek we'd probably shred TD's ACL again and beason is dealing with a sore shoulder and isn't 100% back from his achilles yet.

mcdermott didn't have a chance to even install a scheme last season. we started eight linebackers. we had 13 different starting lineups. when players are dropping like flies and you're starting practice squadders, UDFAs, and rookies, you aren't going to look good. i don't care who the DC is.

not to mention, his defense just had.... uh... 7 sacks, a turnover, and a handful of 3 and outs against the 1/4 season MVP. sounds like the D played well enough. haruki made a mistake on that 60 yarder. absolutely not rivera's or mcdermott's fault. if he doesn't screw up on that, we win the game. plain and simple. the D played well vs tampa and new orleans too. only consistently bad thing is not wrapping up in the run game...

20 games is simply not enough to judge a coaching staff or GM.
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BroncoinGermany


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about the Schwartz in Motown? Is he on the hot seat?
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green24


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoinGermany wrote:
How about the Schwartz in Motown? Is he on the hot seat?

He shouldn't be. He did wonders for that team last year.
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charles shelton


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
charles shelton wrote:
You're spot on about Gene Smith and his boy Mularkey. We are knee deep into this discusion on the Jags forum. There are a few loyalists still supporting Smith, but most of us have lost faith in him. If he goes, Mularkey & probably Gabbert go with him. I'd imagine a new GM would want to use what will likely be a very high draft pick to get a new QB. I mean really...how much worse would the Jags be with Tebow at qb? I'm a confirmed Tebow hater (as a QB), but I'd take him over Gabbert at this point and not even think twice about it.

-Charles


Mularkey has been your head coach for all of four games. Sounds like a bit of an overreaction.


he's Gene Smith's guy. I really doubt a new GM wouldn't want to clean house, which is why i said the bolded...

-charles
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the Browns should be on the hot seat just yet. They're in a division with consistent playoff choices like the Steelers and Ravens... along with a rising team in the Bengals... they have to be given some slack. They've drafted some talented players, they have their QB of the present (since he's too old to be for the future Laughing), and probably just need a few more pieces (interior OL, WR, DE). I think they get one more year to do it and prove capable... THEN we'll see the firing squad. And really the pieces they need aren't impossible to attain in one offseason. They will have a chance at the best (or one of the best) DE in the draft OR they could trade back, land a sure handed WR talent like Keenan Allen, go DE in the 2nd round (with this likely being a pretty good class in that regard), and then using their mid-round picks on IOL. So I don't think new ownership should be too hasty... or else it could ruin a possible chance of them getting better sooner.

In terms of who I think we see fired. I think the Jets get rid of Mike Tannenbaum. Many made the point years ago that the Jets were being far too reliant on trades/ free agent acquisitions and that moving money around and manipulating the cap so well in the short term would come back to bite the Jets in the behind... well it did. It kept them from being able to draft their own talent for a cheaper price... and it eventually saturated their roster with a bunch of older, expensive players that aren't able to allow them to be as aggressive in free agency as in the past. Now they're feeling the affects. The depth on the team is so thin that they're asking a RB to play corner in subpackages... how does a team allow that to happen? Poor management. They didn't build a sustainable model... and they'll likely lose their jobs because of it (they being Mike Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan).
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
BroncoinGermany wrote:
How about the Schwartz in Motown? Is he on the hot seat?

He shouldn't be. He did wonders for that team last year.
Did he really? They started 5-0 last year, since then they are 6-10. Ponder that for a moment. If Jay Cutler doesn't get hurt, Detroit doesn't make the playoffs last year.
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green24


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
green24 wrote:
BroncoinGermany wrote:
How about the Schwartz in Motown? Is he on the hot seat?

He shouldn't be. He did wonders for that team last year.
Did he really? They started 5-0 last year, since then they are 6-10. Ponder that for a moment. If Jay Cutler doesn't get hurt, Detroit doesn't make the playoffs last year.

Even that is an improvement over the 0-16 joke he took over. Yes it helps when you draft players like Matt Stafford and Ndamukong Suh, but he has still helped them gain relevance.
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Louis Friend


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
green24 wrote:
BroncoinGermany wrote:
How about the Schwartz in Motown? Is he on the hot seat?

He shouldn't be. He did wonders for that team last year.
Did he really? They started 5-0 last year, since then they are 6-10. Ponder that for a moment. If Jay Cutler doesn't get hurt, Detroit doesn't make the playoffs last year.


Says Chicago fans.
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Bad meets Evil


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct on Gene Smith and Mularkey. If we don't turn things around soon, then they both will be gone.

Sorry Giants fans, we will be stealing Marc Ross or Kevin Abrams from you.

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Tooki


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
green24 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
green24 wrote:
khodder wrote:
chris00cm wrote:
Mike Tannenbaum needs to go. The Jets arguably have the least talent in the league. It's a shame because the Jets were one of the best teams in the league a couple years ago. Now their destined for a top 10 pick and are a talent depleted team.


They have not assembled very little on offense via the draft, his first year was good (Mangold and Ferguson in the first round) but outside of that if you look at how things have gone via the draft on offense since Mike took over you will see;

2006 - Kellen Clemens (2nd), Brad Smith (4th), Leon Washington (4th), Jason Pociask (5th)
2007 - Chansi Stuckey (7th)
2008 - Dustin Keller (1st), Erik Ainge (5th), Marcus Henry (6th), Nate Garner (7th)
2009 - Mark Sanchez (1st), Shonn Greene (3rd)
2010 - Joe McKnight (4th), John Connor (5th)
2011 - Bilal Powell (4th), Jeremy Kerley (5th), Greg McElroy (7th), Scottie McKnight (7th)

It may be a bit early to judge the 11 class and they look to be getting some prodcution from Powell and Kerley, though not top quality porduction.

The other issue is that in 09-10 combined they had 7 draft selections.

If the Jets ever want to improve they need to be smarter about who and what they are adding in the draft and who and what they trade away their draft picks for.


Tannenbaum's first two drafts (2006 and 2007) were arguably the best in the NFL during their respective years. He was able to draft Nick Mangold, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Leon Washington, and Brad Smith in 2006 and Darrelle Revis and David Harris in 2007.


Leon Washington and Brad Smith are specialists players at the most. And neither are with the Jets today. So...


They were more than worth the pick when they were with the Jets.


But they're not with the Jets now, which is kind of the point. Unless drafting and developing players for other teams to use is what teams are going for nowadays, those were wasted picks.


Washington was hardly a wasted pick. When Seattle traded for him, he was coming off a broken leg. Us Seahawks fans were unsure on if he would even recover. It was worth the risk.

Luckily for us, he came back and waa able to still play at a great level. But he has lost some noticeable speed.
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GangGreen420


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tannenbaum and Ryan absolutely deserve to be on the hot seat. I would prefer both to be gone at seasons end, but its unlikely.
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101stSaintsFan


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of hot seat, what are you guy's thoughts on Lovie Smith?
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Colt45fool


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
green24 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
green24 wrote:
khodder wrote:
chris00cm wrote:
Mike Tannenbaum needs to go. The Jets arguably have the least talent in the league. It's a shame because the Jets were one of the best teams in the league a couple years ago. Now their destined for a top 10 pick and are a talent depleted team.


They have not assembled very little on offense via the draft, his first year was good (Mangold and Ferguson in the first round) but outside of that if you look at how things have gone via the draft on offense since Mike took over you will see;

2006 - Kellen Clemens (2nd), Brad Smith (4th), Leon Washington (4th), Jason Pociask (5th)
2007 - Chansi Stuckey (7th)
2008 - Dustin Keller (1st), Erik Ainge (5th), Marcus Henry (6th), Nate Garner (7th)
2009 - Mark Sanchez (1st), Shonn Greene (3rd)
2010 - Joe McKnight (4th), John Connor (5th)
2011 - Bilal Powell (4th), Jeremy Kerley (5th), Greg McElroy (7th), Scottie McKnight (7th)

It may be a bit early to judge the 11 class and they look to be getting some prodcution from Powell and Kerley, though not top quality porduction.

The other issue is that in 09-10 combined they had 7 draft selections.

If the Jets ever want to improve they need to be smarter about who and what they are adding in the draft and who and what they trade away their draft picks for.


Tannenbaum's first two drafts (2006 and 2007) were arguably the best in the NFL during their respective years. He was able to draft Nick Mangold, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Leon Washington, and Brad Smith in 2006 and Darrelle Revis and David Harris in 2007.


Leon Washington and Brad Smith are specialists players at the most. And neither are with the Jets today. So...


They were more than worth the pick when they were with the Jets.


But they're not with the Jets now, which is kind of the point. Unless drafting and developing players for other teams to use is what teams are going for nowadays, those were wasted picks.
The Jets couldn't afford the salaries either player wanted. You don't discredit pro bowl players because they changed teams, do you?

Drew Brees didn't finish his career in San Diego. He was clearly a terrible pick by the Chargers, right?
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baconrad3


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: ! Reply with quote

Marty Hurney for Carolina is probably the first GM that comes to mind for me.

He might be THE worst GM in all of football.

Basically he drafted Cam so everyone's like zomg he shouldn't be on the hot seat durp! But that's about the only good thing he's done in years.

Before that, he spent an offseason locking down the core of a 2-14 team. He shelled out a TON of money to not one but two players at one of the most dispensable positions in the league. They were 6-10 last year, are 1-3 this year and don't look like they will be even a .500 team this season.

The Panthers 2009 and 2010 drafts were TERRIBLE. Like, really really bad.

They didn't have a 1st rounder in either draft.

But they had two 2nd rounders in 2009...took Everette Brown (sucks) and Sherrod Martin...Martin is actually good...but that is about the only good pick in this draft. Corey Irvin, Mike Goodson, Tony Fiammetta, Duke Robinson, and Captain Munnerlyn are the rest of the picks

In 2010 he used their 2nd rounder on Jimmy Clausen (lol). Then Brandon Lafell in the 3rd. He has been decent...But nothing special. The Armanti Edwards again in the 3rd...then Eric Norwood, Greg Hardy, David Gettis, Tony Pike, RJ Stanford, and Robert McClain.

Those are two of the worst drafts I've seen.

Hurney needs to go.
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