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TheStarStillShines


Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 8774
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
Dave, one person suggested benching Romo in favour of Orton. Just one, yet you took his opinion as speaking on behalf of everyone. Heck, I don't think people are being harsh or critical of Romo, but rather suggesting that the team needs to start thinking about grooming a future QB and this year would be a great time to find one given the QB depth in the draft.

Drafting a QB gives the team options - he could possibly start as early as 2013 if the team decides to cut Romo (don't see it happening); hold the clipboard and learn in 2013 and take over in 2014; or Romo gets a contract extension and plays another 3 or 4 years, at which time the young QB takes over.

It's time to think about succession planning for Romo (and others for that matter), especially since this team has been mired in mediocrity for so long.


Ok, I'm on board, for the moment. Let's look at the situation.
As I see it, this team has been on a carousel for almost 2 decades. When the offene is clicking and stocked with players peaking in their primes (2007, 2009), the defense, or some part of it is atrocious.
Then there is the reverse of that, much like we have been seeing this season.
As I see it, given the starters we are fielding each week, we either have to spend the majority of our draft strengthening our O line, D line and S positions, possibly picking up a WR, LORD PLEASE not another LB, with the intent of spending the 2013 and 2014 seasons making a run at a title.

OR

Draft O line, QB, WR, DL, S, this year and move the starters we have now in an attempt to salvage our future. In other words, stop trying to meld one era into a new one. You will end up being right back on the good side/bad side of things in 2 or 3 years. Yeah, our O line will be great and our QB may be the next Joe Montana, but then your fielding 10 year vets in Ware and Ratliff (can't stay healthy), a 12 year vet in Witten (already showing signs of losing a step), Miles Austin will be in a wheelchair by then due to his hamstring issues, etc, etc.

So, in my humble opinion, it is roll the dice with Romo for another 2-3 years with a contract extension and better drafting on the lines, or start building for the future in which case it would be wise to move some star players now while you can get significant draft prospects for them, and go all out in 2014, 15, 16 and so on. We already have a good crop of 1st and 2nd year players that will be in their primes by then. Players like Lee who would be a senior veteran on this team, who would hold other defenders accountable, who wouldn't think twice about slapping someone upside their heads if they didn't know their assignments.

That is how they did it in 1989. Look how that turned out. They sold the farm for a better future. And 3 years later they won their 1st of 3 super bowls. That is all I'm saying.


First, I don't think the franchise should ever put itself in a position that it was in 1989. The success of those teams is the exception, not the rule. Not every team that rebuilds ends up winning a SB championship let alone 3. Just take a look at the Boys post-Aikman. It took them 7 years before they landed on Romo, but he isn't exactly in Aikman's stratosphere.

Second, do you really trust JJ to oversee another rebuilding process? There's no Jimmy Johnson and friends on the staff. Instead, it's Jerry and his minions. If the Boys take the approach that you have laid out, I think we would be seeing a repeat of the 2000 to 2003 seasons, which was some of the most dreadful seasons this franchise has ever had.

Third, given the physical pounding that Romo has taken the past 3-4 years, the team needs to invest in a young QB because Romo may not have many more years left. So draft a QB now and get an idea if he can become the heir apparent. If not, draft another one a couple of years later. Franchise QBs are tough to find and not every draft year has one. But if there's a draft deep in QB talent - and this year's draft has some very good prospects - then you take one. Hoping to land an Aikman once again in 2, 3, or 4 years from now and kickstarting a rebuild with Jones is just asking for even more years of painstaking bad football.
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Tony7188


Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 3497
Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
dahobofest wrote:
Bottom line, as long as the offensive line stays at its current level, you have two options:

1. You let Romo be Romo, and hopefully the receivers play well and the playmaking Tony outweighs the bad, which I believe it has over the past few years.

2. You tell Romo to play conservative behind his offensive line. You consistently go 3 and out, score 0 points, but at least you won't have the turnovers.


If things don't improve in two years, the team should seriously consider rebuilding. As you mentioned, a lot of the core - Romo, Ware, Witten, Ratliff - will be well into their 30s and the window likely will be closed. However, there are some pieces to build around - the defence is still quiet young and the offence has some good foundational pieces in Murray, Smith, and Bryant (assuming he will be re-signed and not traded).


FIFY
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Rtnldave


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 2973
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
Rtnldave wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
Dave, one person suggested benching Romo in favour of Orton. Just one, yet you took his opinion as speaking on behalf of everyone. Heck, I don't think people are being harsh or critical of Romo, but rather suggesting that the team needs to start thinking about grooming a future QB and this year would be a great time to find one given the QB depth in the draft.

Drafting a QB gives the team options - he could possibly start as early as 2013 if the team decides to cut Romo (don't see it happening); hold the clipboard and learn in 2013 and take over in 2014; or Romo gets a contract extension and plays another 3 or 4 years, at which time the young QB takes over.

It's time to think about succession planning for Romo (and others for that matter), especially since this team has been mired in mediocrity for so long.


Ok, I'm on board, for the moment. Let's look at the situation.
As I see it, this team has been on a carousel for almost 2 decades. When the offene is clicking and stocked with players peaking in their primes (2007, 2009), the defense, or some part of it is atrocious.
Then there is the reverse of that, much like we have been seeing this season.
As I see it, given the starters we are fielding each week, we either have to spend the majority of our draft strengthening our O line, D line and S positions, possibly picking up a WR, LORD PLEASE not another LB, with the intent of spending the 2013 and 2014 seasons making a run at a title.

OR

Draft O line, QB, WR, DL, S, this year and move the starters we have now in an attempt to salvage our future. In other words, stop trying to meld one era into a new one. You will end up being right back on the good side/bad side of things in 2 or 3 years. Yeah, our O line will be great and our QB may be the next Joe Montana, but then your fielding 10 year vets in Ware and Ratliff (can't stay healthy), a 12 year vet in Witten (already showing signs of losing a step), Miles Austin will be in a wheelchair by then due to his hamstring issues, etc, etc.

So, in my humble opinion, it is roll the dice with Romo for another 2-3 years with a contract extension and better drafting on the lines, or start building for the future in which case it would be wise to move some star players now while you can get significant draft prospects for them, and go all out in 2014, 15, 16 and so on. We already have a good crop of 1st and 2nd year players that will be in their primes by then. Players like Lee who would be a senior veteran on this team, who would hold other defenders accountable, who wouldn't think twice about slapping someone upside their heads if they didn't know their assignments.

That is how they did it in 1989. Look how that turned out. They sold the farm for a better future. And 3 years later they won their 1st of 3 super bowls. That is all I'm saying.


First, I don't think the franchise should ever put itself in a position that it was in 1989. The success of those teams is the exception, not the rule. Not every team that rebuilds ends up winning a SB championship let alone 3. Just take a look at the Boys post-Aikman. It took them 7 years before they landed on Romo, but he isn't exactly in Aikman's stratosphere.

Second, do you really trust JJ to oversee another rebuilding process? There's no Jimmy Johnson and friends on the staff. Instead, it's Jerry and his minions. If the Boys take the approach that you have laid out, I think we would be seeing a repeat of the 2000 to 2003 seasons, which was some of the most dreadful seasons this franchise has ever had.

Third, given the physical pounding that Romo has taken the past 3-4 years, the team needs to invest in a young QB because Romo may not have many more years left. So draft a QB now and get an idea if he can become the heir apparent. If not, draft another one a couple of years later. Franchise QBs are tough to find and not every draft year has one. But if there's a draft deep in QB talent - and this year's draft has some very good prospects - then you take one. Hoping to land an Aikman once again in 2, 3, or 4 years from now and kickstarting a rebuild with Jones is just asking for even more years of painstaking bad football.


You are exactly right Star, you hit the nail right on the head. It's a 100 to 1 shot. But you only addressed half of the equation. The 1st half suggested that we use this year's draft to target mainly Line positions on both sides of the ball so in 2 years, when all our 5 year veteran stars now will only have their last legs about them then, our O line will finally be solidified as well as our D line. That may be our only window of opportunity. Not very comforting.
What's even less comforting to me is using picks now for future considerations at positions like QB and then being on this rotating system again where one side of the ball is solid but the other got weak due to age and wear and tear.
If we did go young at QB, then I, for one, am content with blowing it up and grabbing as many young players with whatever extra draft picks we recieved, and rolling with that. At least with youth you will have some longevity to your window of opportunity, provided your draft picks pan out, whereas with keeping with the present players we may only have 1 real shot at it.
BTW, you may be correct about 1989 being the exception, perhaps the Colts will be the deciding factor on that debate in the next 2-3 years. If they turn into a powerhouse and win at least 1 super bowl in the next 2-3 years, we will know that gamble paid off. If they turn out to be busts, then we will know you were right.
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The_Slamman


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, take this for what it's worth... I just got off the phone with a person I know and trust whose son is a sports writer for the Albuquerque Journal. The son was invited by Stephen Jones into their suite for the game. Again, I did not speak to the son... so I'm hearing it second hand based on what the son told the father. I'm sorry if this sounds like a BTA story. I wouldn't post it if I didn't believe the dad.

He said that Jerry and Stephen were both irate yesterday and there was pretty much silence in the both in the 4th quarter to the point that it was uncomfortable to sit there in the same room. What allegedly set them off like that?

Stephen told Jerry something to the effect of... "Now you see why I wanted an offensive coordinator. Everybody knows our plays and schemes. We are easy to defend; we've been running the exact same thing since Jason got here." Allegedly, Jerry was fuming that he got called out by Stephen.

I asked the dad if his son would write a story about it cause I'd love to read it. He said no because he would be a breach of professional courtesy as an invitee of Stephen. Take it for what it's worth, but I wouldn't be surprised if we start hearing about getting an OC at the end of the year.
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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If true, I love Stephen.

If true, who do we look at OC wise?
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CowboysTilIDie


Joined: 09 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sincerely hope we take the OC reigns away from Jason next year. I think he is much better suited as a leader and HC only. Wasn't bill Callahan brought in to help with the play calling and run game coordination? Yea...either that was just all talk or he's as bad as Jason.
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hitstreak07


Joined: 23 Apr 2011
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Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Guys, take this for what it's worth... I just got off the phone with a person I know and trust whose son is a sports writer for the Albuquerque Journal. The son was invited by Stephen Jones into their suite for the game. Again, I did not speak to the son... so I'm hearing it second hand based on what the son told the father. I'm sorry if this sounds like a BTA story. I wouldn't post it if I didn't believe the dad.

He said that Jerry and Stephen were both irate yesterday and there was pretty much silence in the both in the 4th quarter to the point that it was uncomfortable to sit there in the same room. What allegedly set them off like that?

Stephen told Jerry something to the effect of... "Now you see why I wanted an offensive coordinator. Everybody knows our plays and schemes. We are easy to defend; we've been running the exact same thing since Jason got here." Allegedly, Jerry was fuming that he got called out by Stephen.

I asked the dad if his son would write a story about it cause I'd love to read it. He said no because he would be a breach of professional courtesy as an invitee of Stephen. Take it for what it's worth, but I wouldn't be surprised if we start hearing about getting an OC at the end of the year.


If that's what Stephen said, then it finally sounds like at least one of the Jones's eyes have been opened, and he is spot on......We have 2 running plays....2......We run off tackle to the right side of the field, whether its the short side or not, and also our much inferior side of the line as well, and the 2nd run play is where Romo takes the snap, acts as tho he's throwing a WR screen, then hands off the ball on a draw play.....We have the most predictable offense in the league, there's no creativity/originality at all
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atran35


Joined: 22 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There maybe additions to this team over the bye. Rumors of Montrae Holland return. Mackenzie is the worst on the line. Montrae is a big strong body that can pass protect and can run block a bit.
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Ace5


Joined: 22 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atran35 wrote:
There maybe additions to this team over the bye. Rumors of Montrae Holland return. Mackenzie is the worst on the line. Montrae is a big strong body that can pass protect and can run block a bit.


When Montrae Holland is considered an upgrade, I'll consider growing up on food stamps to have been enjoyable. Pathetic that the o-line is this bad.
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TheStarStillShines


Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
If true, I love Stephen.

If true, who do we look at OC wise?


I would love to see a WCO OC come in. The line can't protect, so incorporate a lot of 3- and 5-step drops with the WRs running slants, fades, and quick outs. Also, it means using the RB and FB in the passing game.

Combine that with a tough running game. While the OL can't really open up holes, WCO coordinators tend to stick with the run and will run out of different formations. Not sure who would fit the bill, but maybe someone like Ben McAdoo, who is the QB coach for Green Bay; Doug Pederson of Philadelphia; or Chad O'Shea of New England. These teams incorporate a lot of WCO principles in their offence, although I would prefer O'Shea given NE focuses on creating balance in their offence.

Another philosophy would be Tom Moore offence, which uses a lot of skinny posts, seam routes, and quick outs in the passing game while the running game uses a lot of stretch plays. Karl Dorrell of Houston would be a prime candidate.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Guys, take this for what it's worth... I just got off the phone with a person I know and trust whose son is a sports writer for the Albuquerque Journal. The son was invited by Stephen Jones into their suite for the game. Again, I did not speak to the son... so I'm hearing it second hand based on what the son told the father. I'm sorry if this sounds like a BTA story. I wouldn't post it if I didn't believe the dad.

He said that Jerry and Stephen were both irate yesterday and there was pretty much silence in the both in the 4th quarter to the point that it was uncomfortable to sit there in the same room. What allegedly set them off like that?

Stephen told Jerry something to the effect of... "Now you see why I wanted an offensive coordinator. Everybody knows our plays and schemes. We are easy to defend; we've been running the exact same thing since Jason got here." Allegedly, Jerry was fuming that he got called out by Stephen.

I asked the dad if his son would write a story about it cause I'd love to read it. He said no because he would be a breach of professional courtesy as an invitee of Stephen. Take it for what it's worth, but I wouldn't be surprised if we start hearing about getting an OC at the end of the year.


I generally don't comment on hearsay, especially when it's those "a friend of a friend of a friend" type of stories. But I really hope this is true. To me, it shows that everything that has been said of Stephen is holding true. That he has a more sound football mind. That he knows what is needed to build a successful staff. And, it gives the insinuation that Stephen is in fact gaining more authority from Jerry - albeit not final say.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
If true, I love Stephen.

If true, who do we look at OC wise?


I would love to see a WCO OC come in. The line can't protect, so incorporate a lot of 3- and 5-step drops with the WRs running slants, fades, and quick outs. Also, it means using the RB and FB in the passing game.

Combine that with a tough running game. While the OL can't really open up holes, WCO coordinators tend to stick with the run and will run out of different formations. Not sure who would fit the bill, but maybe someone like Ben McAdoo, who is the QB coach for Green Bay; Doug Pederson of Philadelphia; or Chad O'Shea of New England. These teams incorporate a lot of WCO principles in their offence, although I would prefer O'Shea given NE focuses on creating balance in their offence.

Another philosophy would be Tom Moore offence, which uses a lot of skinny posts, seam routes, and quick outs in the passing game while the running game uses a lot of stretch plays. Karl Dorrell of Houston would be a prime candidate.


I think you listed some excellent candidates.

A thing to consider is that we are also seeing a shift in our offensive line philosophy. We are going to see players who are better in space, who are athletic. So the OC we do get cannot be a ground and pound type of guy.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
If true, I love Stephen.

If true, who do we look at OC wise?



Every night before you go to sleep.. pray that Norv Turner gets fired and wants to come here for a lifetime contract.


EVERYNIGHT!
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After re watching the game, Romo played very well. The Ogletree and Bryant INTs hurt us more than I really saw. I want everyone who thinks Romo did not play well to re watch the game and take emotions out of it. He played well and those INTs hurt us bad. The OL played better than I expected as well, they were straight up awful creating holes in the run game too.
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be WARE94


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
After re watching the game, Romo played very well. The Ogletree and Bryant INTs hurt us more than I really saw. I want everyone who thinks Romo did not play well to re watch the game and take emotions out of it. He played well and those INTs hurt us bad. The OL played better than I expected as well, they were straight up awful creating holes in the run game too.


is this real?
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