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Heres the keys to the Oakland Raiders, begin.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
TheAutumnWind wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
lilcrazycat1 wrote:
i would not mind trading down to get more picks , espec since we dont have a 2

+1

This is the only thing I would add to the original post as much as it would hurt to pass on a player as impactful as Milliner. The Raiders will regret not drafting Josh Chapman. Cam Thomas was another 5th rounder, iirc, that folks on this board were high on.


Yup... flipped my lid when we passed on him twice... or was it 3x's!?? (although I was happy we picked up Burris) Can't believe also that we didn't nab Richard Sherman from Stanford in the 5th!!! Kid is lookin really good so far Brick wall



We took D.Moore in the 5th. An excellent pick.


We took more last year. I think that was the cringer pick this year. Btw what has chapman done this year? And we weren't the only team to pass on him more than once.
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Chali21


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Please stop with the Green Bay stuff, without Rogers what are they?They have no defense and no running game. They got lucky and drafted 2 great players but most are below average. Everything about Green Bay is overrated.


Actually I'd take their defense over ours in a heartbeat...their receivers too. Not their linemen though...they kinda suck.

Don't let their record fool you. They lost to a great niners team that could win it all. Their Terrible defense picked cutler off 3 times! If they didn't have the derpy refs in the Seattle game they would have won that too. (Seattle btw has one of the best defenses in the league.) And don't let NO's record fool you Drew Brees is the man, they lost their last two games by a field goal.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
TheAutumnWind wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
lilcrazycat1 wrote:
i would not mind trading down to get more picks , espec since we dont have a 2

+1

This is the only thing I would add to the original post as much as it would hurt to pass on a player as impactful as Milliner. The Raiders will regret not drafting Josh Chapman. Cam Thomas was another 5th rounder, iirc, that folks on this board were high on.


Yup... flipped my lid when we passed on him twice... or was it 3x's!?? (although I was happy we picked up Burris) Can't believe also that we didn't nab Richard Sherman from Stanford in the 5th!!! Kid is lookin really good so far Brick wall



We took D.Moore in the 5th. An excellent pick.


We took more last year. I think that was the cringer pick this year. Btw what has chapman done this year? And we weren't the only team to pass on him more than once.


Richard Sherman was a 2011 draft pick. Not 2012.
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bitty


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
bitty wrote:
Please stop with the Green Bay stuff, without Rogers what are they?They have no defense and no running game. They got lucky and drafted 2 great players but most are below average. Everything about Green Bay is overrated.


Actually I'd take their defense over ours in a heartbeat...their receivers too. Not their linemen though...they kinda suck.

Don't let their record fool you. They lost to a great niners team that could win it all. Their Terrible defense picked cutler off 3 times! If they didn't have the derpy refs in the Seattle game they would have won that too. (Seattle btw has one of the best defenses in the league.) And don't let NO's record fool you Drew Brees is the man, they lost their last two games by a field goal.


I just still think GB is overrated when It comes to drafting players In my opinion the teams that have the best track record drafting players are New York Giants,Baltimore and Pittsburgh
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pHaT_dEsI


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Keep Reggie
2. Keep Dennis Allen
3. Fire Knapp
4. Resign Al Saunders as Assistant HC/OC
5. Try and sign Romeo Crennel/Rex Ryan as DC if released
6. Get rid of Zone Blocking
7. Cut or trade Seymore/McClain/Kelly
8. Draft a premier pass rusher and corner
9. Sign a top Free Agent Corner and keep Bartell and Spencer
10. Draft a smart/intelligent/hard working quarterback to sit behind Plamer.
11. Get a quality Right Tackle.
12. Sit back and enjoy a 9-7 or 11-5 winning season.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Heres the keys to the Oakland Raiders, begin. Reply with quote

RaidersAreOne wrote:

Now im curious what everyone would do if they were Mark Davis. You have complete control of this team. What would be on your list of things to do starting now up until next season begins? Coaching changes, GM changes, player changes... anything goes.

1. Keep Reggie, without a doubt in my mind. He is the future of our team. He was given absolute - this past season, and managed to still make technically sound decisions regardless of the situation. Not thrilled about the Berg pick, but the rest of the draft I love. We may have found some potential solid finds in King, Criner, Rod and Burris. The FA signings I am content with, it just sucks the CB's got killed this year.

2. Keep DA. I for one am happy with him (which noone else seems to be). Yes the team isnt performing as some hoped, but look at our friggen starters on half the team. Look at the depth. We have little to no depth, and the starters are overpaid like no other. I love the fact we have cut down substantially on the penalties. I like his communication skills and how he handles himself to the media.

3. Scrap Knapp. I for one was never happy about this hire, and I hate it even more now seeing the lack of explosion and running game results. The WCO for me is meh. I like the high % throws, but hate the lack of explosiveness. I LOATH the ZBS now. DMAC is way to fast and not enough vision for this system. Get a more aggressive, creative OC that impliments a more PBS, and we will see our O continue to improve.

4. Trade/cut overpaid and under performing vets. Enough said. There is no room for scholarships on this team anymore. I truely believe Seymour, Kelly, McClain (unless he plays ALOT better)... maybe even DHB sadly, well get cut after this season due to their ridiculous salaries. CLEAR THE BOOKS. Completely guy this team of all its over rated players for once. We can not keep on patching up holes with duct tape. We need to completely analyze our roster and get some young, hungry players.

5. Draft/sign BPA. Greenbay has a habit of doing these types of drafts and look at them now. If we are gutting this team like I hope, we will look for BPA to make an immediate impact now and for the future.


OK, assuming i have the control and of course some of this is preemptive:

1 - Reggie, Dennis Allen and Tarver are good choices i think in the long run and should be given a number of years to work together and improve unless something goes drastically wrong, I would have kept Al Saunders as OC and kept with his system and the PBS.

2 - Zone blocking and Greg Knapp i would not have installed. I am a proponent of if it ain't broke don't fix it mentality, DMac ran well in the power scheme, Palmer was just getting comfortable with his receivers, systems and our recieving core is improved from last year overall. So i would have kept Al Saunsers as OC and run a system similar to that which Saunders and Jackson ran last year ensuring our 2 most valuable players (DMac and CP) play in a system that suits their skills. I think it would be better to wait and bring in a whole new WCO and ZBS system if one or both leave and then draft to suit that system rather than plug these guys who are top players into a potentially unsuitable system. Drafting players to suit a system makes sense in the long run (but that doesn't need to be now) and i see where the front office is coming from but if you can't get your best players to work in that system right now they're very wasted.

3 - Right now i think we have 2 CBs injured that can be decent in Bartell and Spencer so i wouldn't panic and make a rash move trading for a CB, i would take the hit this year and draft a CB in the 2nd or 3rd round (if we trade into the 2nd that is). I would couple that with a pass rushing DE drafted in the 1st and move Shaughnessy to LE. Houston moves inside with Kelly and Seymour is probably gone after this season. Hopefully we inprove our pass rush and coverage in one hit.

4 - Veldheer, Wisniewski are good linemen and played well last year in PBS, Barnes was adequate in the PBS so he could do the season (although with injury we'd have to bring someone in), assuming we signed a FA guard to suit the PBS rather than Briesel we need another G and a RT in FA and/or the draft for an upgrade. Also Bergstrom is probably not suited to PBS so we would have drafted a different guy there.

5 - Wheeler, Curry and Burris should be kept, McClain is in a make or break year and if he performs well should be kept. At current pace we should cut ties and look for a decent vet in FA. Most important thing is that the DL is strong which can mask an average LB core.

Overall i think we have be let down by two main things so far....crippling injuries to a thin defensive backfield and the installation of a ZBS and WCO which doesn't suit our players. The DBs we can't do a lot about as injuries just happen but the offense could have been so much better. The FO is changing for the long term with the idea of drafting guys to suit a system rather than indivisuals, however i just think this particular re-build could have been delayed especially as we have some very good pieces to build around for the medium term (3 to 4 years) with CP and DMac.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion the Raiders roster is going to be majorly overhauled after this season. I mean majorly overhauled.

Reggie had to work with what he was given this season. No draft picks and no cap room. He had to purge players like Routt and Wimbley. Didn't have the money to get involved in FA bidding.

He's established his scouting department this year now. He's signed some 'try out players' for a year to see who can stick. Now the purging begins.

He had to keep a lot of these players in the fold this year. But moving forward, with some cushion in the salary cap and draft picks (looking like top 5 draft picks in each round) at his disposal he will have a shot to makeover the roster in his image.

Still going to take some time, but this year was basically a loss with the situation he was presented.
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure why people think this system doesn't suit Palmer. It suits him far more then getting him to fling the ball down field so he can turn it over.
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BigMike1b


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seemingly as we're likely to have a top-3 pick, it's inevitable that we will take a guy like Geno Smith or Matt Barkley as QBs of the future. As well as Palmer has played, you just don't pass on potential franchise QBs when they are sitting right in front of you. With the lack of a 2nd rounder, we're going to have to spend a little money this offseason. A CB and pass rusher at DE will be our biggest needs and we need them BAD going forward. Cliff Avril would be a nice addition if we don't grossly overpay for him.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Not sure why people think this system doesn't suit Palmer. It suits him far more then getting him to fling the ball down field so he can turn it over.


IMO Carson Palmer was a great fit for the vertical threat Al Davis game, big armed QB with the accuracy to hit deep balls and not afraid to throw into coverage or take a few chances. Also for the system employed by Jackson and Saunders last year IMO.

The system we're currently installing with Greg Knapp seems (admittedly from viewing only a couple pre-season and 3 of 4 regular season games) from all indications to be a short throw, very low risk WCO with lots of quick outs and lateral routes with only the odd deep route thrown in. TE's have seen a fair bit of action compared to last year and DMac in particular getting lots of quick looks.

I'm not saying Palmer cannot play in this system as for me he has done very well, but i think it's clearly not playing to his strengths as a big play threat and also with our wideouts being an UDFA (Streeter), a guy off the street (Hagan), a 2nd year wideout (Moore) and a guy with average hands (DHB) when you need accurate, precise route runners who can catch well in traffic with good timing is clearly not ideal.
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Not sure why people think this system doesn't suit Palmer. It suits him far more then getting him to fling the ball down field so he can turn it over.


IMO Carson Palmer was a great fit for the vertical threat Al Davis game, big armed QB with the accuracy to hit deep balls and not afraid to throw into coverage or take a few chances. Also for the system employed by Jackson and Saunders last year IMO.

The system we're currently installing with Greg Knapp seems (admittedly from viewing only a couple pre-season and 3 of 4 regular season games) from all indications to be a short throw, very low risk WCO with lots of quick outs and lateral routes with only the odd deep route thrown in. TE's have seen a fair bit of action compared to last year and DMac in particular getting lots of quick looks.

I'm not saying Palmer cannot play in this system as for me he has done very well, but i think it's clearly not playing to his strengths as a big play threat and also with our wideouts being an UDFA (Streeter), a guy off the street (Hagan), a 2nd year wideout (Moore) and a guy with average hands (DHB) when you need accurate, precise route runners who can catch well in traffic with good timing is clearly not ideal.



Turning the ball over has been Palmer main strength for the last few years. Hardly surprising we want to move away from that.
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Not sure why people think this system doesn't suit Palmer. It suits him far more then getting him to fling the ball down field so he can turn it over.


IMO Carson Palmer was a great fit for the vertical threat Al Davis game, big armed QB with the accuracy to hit deep balls and not afraid to throw into coverage or take a few chances. Also for the system employed by Jackson and Saunders last year IMO.

The system we're currently installing with Greg Knapp seems (admittedly from viewing only a couple pre-season and 3 of 4 regular season games) from all indications to be a short throw, very low risk WCO with lots of quick outs and lateral routes with only the odd deep route thrown in. TE's have seen a fair bit of action compared to last year and DMac in particular getting lots of quick looks.

I'm not saying Palmer cannot play in this system as for me he has done very well, but i think it's clearly not playing to his strengths as a big play threat and also with our wideouts being an UDFA (Streeter), a guy off the street (Hagan), a 2nd year wideout (Moore) and a guy with average hands (DHB) when you need accurate, precise route runners who can catch well in traffic with good timing is clearly not ideal.



Turning the ball over has been Palmer main strength for the last few years. Hardly surprising we want to move away from that.


I take it you're not a fan of Palmer then............
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Chali21


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigMike1b wrote:
Seemingly as we're likely to have a top-3 pick, it's inevitable that we will take a guy like Geno Smith or Matt Barkley as QBs of the future. As well as Palmer has played, you just don't pass on potential franchise QBs when they are sitting right in front of you. With the lack of a 2nd rounder, we're going to have to spend a little money this offseason. A CB and pass rusher at DE will be our biggest needs and we need them BAD going forward. Cliff Avril would be a nice addition if we don't grossly overpay for him.


I think Barkley will be a bust tbh, he just doesn't dominate like he should against average teams. Also I think he benefits from having a great group around him. I don't know much about Geno I know he's lighting it up against scrub teams if he stays strong against the bigger defenses than we will see. Right now franchise QB to me isn't as big as getting a blue chip pass rusher or trading down to pick up a corner.
This QB class kinda reminds me of the 07 draft class. /:
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Not sure why people think this system doesn't suit Palmer. It suits him far more then getting him to fling the ball down field so he can turn it over.


+1 on that.
If the current play of the team indicates anything, it's that it suits Palmer more than any other player we have. He's the only one thriving aside from Myers. Build around the QB, what a novel idea..
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Not sure why people think this system doesn't suit Palmer. It suits him far more then getting him to fling the ball down field so he can turn it over.


IMO Carson Palmer was a great fit for the vertical threat Al Davis game, big armed QB with the accuracy to hit deep balls and not afraid to throw into coverage or take a few chances. Also for the system employed by Jackson and Saunders last year IMO.

The system we're currently installing with Greg Knapp seems (admittedly from viewing only a couple pre-season and 3 of 4 regular season games) from all indications to be a short throw, very low risk WCO with lots of quick outs and lateral routes with only the odd deep route thrown in. TE's have seen a fair bit of action compared to last year and DMac in particular getting lots of quick looks.

I'm not saying Palmer cannot play in this system as for me he has done very well, but i think it's clearly not playing to his strengths as a big play threat and also with our wideouts being an UDFA (Streeter), a guy off the street (Hagan), a 2nd year wideout (Moore) and a guy with average hands (DHB) when you need accurate, precise route runners who can catch well in traffic with good timing is clearly not ideal.



Turning the ball over has been Palmer main strength for the last few years. Hardly surprising we want to move away from that.


I take it you're not a fan of Palmer then............



I'm not not a fan. Does some things well and then does some things very badly. There is no denying he's an interception machine when he throws it down the field often though. Even worse when he is pressured and forced to throw quickly. As you said yourself our WRs are not built for going down the field so I just don't understand why people want us to play that type of game.
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