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mike23md


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am liking Vacarro or Rambo from either Texas or Georgia.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
I am liking Vacarro or Rambo from either Texas or Georgia.
I do like Vacarro but I worry about Rambo's off the field issues. I'd stay away from him
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like where your heads are at. Vacarro or Jefferson would be good pickups (provided we also address the OL in FA)
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redskins4789


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any chance you guys think we go after Revis, Phillips,or Rhodes in FA?
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redskins4789 wrote:
Any chance you guys think we go after Revis, Phillips,or Rhodes in FA?


They need to go after somebody and somebody whose good. Hopefully the cap hit won't effect us to the point where we can't address our needs and can't sign the top notch guys in FA that fit our needs. I'm quite sure had it not been for the cap penalty last season the OL wouldve been much more improved during the FA period.
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redskins4789


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
redskins4789 wrote:
Any chance you guys think we go after Revis, Phillips,or Rhodes in FA?


They need to go after somebody and somebody whose good. Hopefully the cap hit won't effect us to the point where we can't address our needs and can't sign the top notch guys in FA that fit our needs. I'm quite sure had it not been for the cap penalty last season the OL wouldve been much more improved during the FA period.


We dont have to re-sign to many of our people besides Davis and Litch so I believe it wont effect us as much this year
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Revis- torn acl and too much $$. No thanks

Rhodes- will be 31 next year, and is overrated. No thanks

Phillips- bad knees,injury prone. No thanks

Arrow I say sign Carry Williams. He is a solid cb, won't break the bank and then draft the Best Safety available in round 2 with our first pick
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redskins4789


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was watching the USC game last night and boy is TJ Mcdonald impressive he could do wonders for our defense. He is a great tackler and great in run support. He also can lay the wood and looks like he has natural coverage instincts. He seems like more of a SS but we need help at both spots. To bad he is likely a first rounder. What do you guys think about drafting either drafting Mathieu or Kenny Tate with our third or second?
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footy_29


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If not for the penalty, it is my belief that Carr would be a Redskin. I very much hope that the Redskins can fight the penalty, but unfortunately it stopped the Redskins from getting a player that they sorely needed.

Cary Williams is not a solution - this team needs a stud corner. I have my doubts that the Skins will be able to find a corner this off-season.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
If not for the penalty, it is my belief that Carr would be a Redskin. I very much hope that the Redskins can fight the penalty, but unfortunately it stopped the Redskins from getting a player that they sorely needed.


Either him or maybe Finnegan. We certainly would have made a run at Carr to prevent him from heading to Dallas.

Quote:
Cary Williams is not a solution - this team needs a stud corner. I have my doubts that the Skins will be able to find a corner this off-season.


Well, we need to at least try to deal with the secondary.
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footy_29


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
If not for the penalty, it is my belief that Carr would be a Redskin. I very much hope that the Redskins can fight the penalty, but unfortunately it stopped the Redskins from getting a player that they sorely needed.


Either him or maybe Finnegan. We certainly would have made a run at Carr to prevent him from heading to Dallas.

Quote:
Cary Williams is not a solution - this team needs a stud corner. I have my doubts that the Skins will be able to find a corner this off-season.


Well, we need to at least try to deal with the secondary.


Sure, but I really do not want to see the team giving a huge contract to a player that is not worth it. Let's take Cary Williams for example, if were to sign a Josh Wilson type of deal, then I would be okay with it.

I will assume that Bruce & Mike's tendency to avoid older FAs is a pattern, therefore I will exclude any corner in their mid or early thirties. Of course, there could be a player in that group that signs a one-year deal to provide some depth, perhaps Sheldon Brown would be a candidate.

Arrow Chris Houston is an average #2 corner, who should be re-signed by the Lions.
Arrow Mike Jenkins - some injury history, wildly inconsistent.
Arrow Tracy Porter - did not pursue him this offseason; I expect the Broncos to keep him.
Arrow Greg Toler - starter the 2011 season
Arrow Cary Williams - an average #2 corner, who should be re-signed by the Ravens.

There are two #1 corners in next year's free agent class: Revis and Grimes. Both suffered season ending injuries, and both will have some struggles returning to form.

I could see Revis leaving, but the price of his contract will be astronomical, in the realm of Fat Al's contract, and I do not think the Redskins are prepared to offer it.Grimes is one of my favourite corners in the league but he will be 30 before the 2013 season, and I see the Falcons heavily pursuing him because they are in win-now mode.

A mid-round corner should take a couple of years to hit their stride, particularly with this draft class, so we're looking at D.Hall, J.Wilson and R. Crawford next year.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
If not for the penalty, it is my belief that Carr would be a Redskin. I very much hope that the Redskins can fight the penalty, but unfortunately it stopped the Redskins from getting a player that they sorely needed.
Either him or maybe Finnegan. We certainly would have made a run at Carr to prevent him from heading to Dallas.
Quote:
Cary Williams is not a solution - this team needs a stud corner. I have my doubts that the Skins will be able to find a corner this off-season.
Well, we need to at least try to deal with the secondary.
Uhh yeah! At least from what I'm watching, at worst the secondary is second largest problem. Adding a player like Carry Williams will help a lot, a big physical corner to go opposite our shorter guys.

IMO the Ravens won't keep Carry Williams. They have Jimmy Smith and Ladarius Webb. I think the ravens will use the $ they'd have to use to re-sign Williams on another position and draft a CB or sign a cheaper one.

Fix the Free Safety spot in round 2 of Draft and the secondary will be much improved.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
If not for the penalty, it is my belief that Carr would be a Redskin. I very much hope that the Redskins can fight the penalty, but unfortunately it stopped the Redskins from getting a player that they sorely needed.
Either him or maybe Finnegan. We certainly would have made a run at Carr to prevent him from heading to Dallas.
Quote:
Cary Williams is not a solution - this team needs a stud corner. I have my doubts that the Skins will be able to find a corner this off-season.
Well, we need to at least try to deal with the secondary.
Uhh yeah! At least from what I'm watching, at worst the secondary is second largest problem. Adding a player like Carry Williams will help a lot, a big physical corner to go opposite our shorter guys.

IMO the Ravens won't keep Carry Williams. They have Jimmy Smith and Ladarius Webb. I think the ravens will use the $ they'd have to use to re-sign Williams on another position and draft a CB or sign a cheaper one.

Fix the Free Safety spot in round 2 of Draft and the secondary will be much improved.


http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=DB&y=2013
To expand off what footy previously posted, here is the 2013 free agent corner market per KFFL broken down into various categories. I am not going to classify any of these guys as to whether they would be good signings. I'll leave that to others.

First up, long time veterans at the end or near the end of their careers:
Code:
>=30 YRS OLD AS OF 09/01/2013, >50% STARTS/SEASON
Player              Current Team                Notes
Will D. Allen       New England Patriots        IR
    12 seasons, 140 GP, 130 GS, 35
Sheldon Brown       Cleveland Browns
    11 seasons, 164 GP, 133 GS, 34
Quentin Jammer      San Diego Chargers
    11 seasons, 160 GP, 149 GS, 34
Rashean Mathis      Jacksonville Jaguars
    10 seasons, 129 GP, 127 GS, 33
Marcus Trufant      Seattle Seahawks
    10 seasons, 128 GP, 124 GS, 32


For some odd reason I thought of Trufant as much older than Jammer or Mathis. Don't know why.

Next up, long time role players with, but have some starting experience:
Code:
>=30 YRS OLD AS OF 09/01/2013, <=50% STARTS/SEASON
Player              Current Team                Notes
Chris Carr          San Diego Chargers          SIGNED 10/1
     8 seasons, 105 GP,  27 GS, 30
Brent Grimes        Atlanta Falcons             IR
     6 seasons,  59 GP,  43 GS, 30
Kelvin Hayden       Chicago Bears
     8 seasons,  89 GP,  47 GS, 30
Joselio Hanson      Oakland Raiders
     8 seasons, 108 GP,  20 GS, 32


Yes, Brent Grimes is on this list and not the first one. He's only started one full season in six years.

Realistically, you sign guys from either of these two lists for one year contracts, maybe two years for the younger guys like Carr, Grimes or Hayden. You certainly don't count on them long term.

Now, the next category are probably the core of the coming free agent market:
Code:
<30 YRS OLD AS OF 09/01/2013, >50% STARTS/SEASON
Player              Current Team                Notes
Chris Houston       Detroit Lions
     6 seasons,  75 GP,  67 GS, 28
Mike Jenkins        Dallas Cowboys
     5 seasons,  61 GP,  47 GS, 28
Tracy Porter        Denver Broncos
     5 seasons,  47 GP,  42 GS, 27
Glover Quin         Houston Texans
     4 seasons,  51 GP,  48 GS, 27
Darrelle Revis      New York Jets
     6 seasons,  79 GP,  79 GS, 28


You'll note that Revis does not have an IR tag on him at this point even though he has a torn ACL. Inexplicably, the Jets claim that they're leaving him on the active roster in hope they can get him back for the Super Bowl. Yeah ... as if that's happening. And that even if it does, that Revis will be in any shape to play in the Super Bowl.

Keep that in mind. Yes, we've seen players come back inside of a year from a torn ACL. However, most of those are RBs. I don't know if that will translate to a corner who needs to backpedal and shift quickly. Still, it's Revis; some team will take a chance. Perhaps we do? I don't know since we've gotten burned in the past, but he is an elite corner.

Personally, I kind of think you take a chance on a reclamation project in Jenkins. Maybe Chris Houston? I don't know anything about Quin.

Last category are your young upside players, guys who don't have much starting experience as the previous category, but who you can probably get much cheaper than the above category as well:

Code:
<30 YRS OLD AS OF 09/01/2013, 25%-50% STARTS/SEASON
Jacob Lacey         Detroit Lions               needs 4 more starts to move up to >50% group
     4 seasons,  47 GP,  29 GS, 26
Cary Williams       Baltimore Ravens
     4 seasons,  43 GP,  21 GS, 28
Greg Toler          Arizona Cardinals           needs 2 more starts to move up to 25-50% group
     4 seasons,  31 GP,  14 GS, 28


I threw Toler in there because he's probably going to qualify in the next few weeks, even with the "hamstring" injury. That said, he's missed a significant amount of time already (sat out the entire 2011 season).

I required a minimum of 25% starts/season as there are quite a few guys who would be free agents but would give us next to nothing in terms of what we need.

So, Cary Williams falls into group four. At 28, that's somewhat "eh" to me. The following article doesn't give me any warm and fuzzies either:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/06/scramble-prominent-position-groups/

Quote:
While it was tough rounding out five of the best defensive backfields in football, there was one team that stood out from the start. The Chicago Bears, in my opinion, have the best group of defensive backs in the league through the first quarter of the season.
...
Baltimore Ravens The Ravens boast three players playing brilliantly through a quarter of the season in Lardarius Webb (+3.5), Bernard Pollard (+4.1), and Ed Reed (+3.5), but the concern around Cary Williams at the other corner spot kept them from making any serious challenge to the Bears here.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, maybe we get lucky and a corner falls to us in the second round who can contribute right away. However, those are some long odds.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the great analysis Woz. I'll have to keep checking Carry Williams out, I Swore when I watched him in the past he played well.

Seems like they think he's part of the second best secondary in the NFL. He keeps te ravens 1st round pick from last year (Jimmy Smith) on the bench. He must be doing something right.
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