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Vikings, Cardinals, Bengals- Contender or Pretender?
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stchamp98


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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52981
Location: Havre, Montana
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shorty McFast wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
If I go into the Texans forum and tell them I think JJ Watt is extremely overrated and don't provide at least some semblance of a valid argument, the reception I get would not be that of happiness.


A) He's in General NFL so I don't know why you're comparing a Troll situation to his statement.

B) He admitted he was reaching for an excuse. Then he said the only thing he could come up with was perhaps Kolb still knows the Eagles well enough to have an advantage.

Now you're saying he made you unhappy with his opinion?


1. This is a troll situation for a number of reasons, one of which being that Ataal is a 49ers fan who lives in Arizona and continually beats down the Cardinals at every turn, dating back to baseless posts such as those here from well over a year ago. You're simply not in tune enough with him as a poster to know that.
2. Opinions are just laughs unless you have something to legitimately back them up. He doesn't. That bothers me, much as it would bother a Texans fan (Or any other fan of any other team, Texans just happened to cross my mind first) if I did such a thing to them.
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HighMotorGuy


Joined: 17 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shorty McFast wrote:
LA Niner Fan wrote:
and by no means should put an asterisk on a decisive victory that could have been even more of a blowout.



Wait... wut?

What are you referring to? The Cards got "lucky" on the first TD (2 Eagles touched it) and "lucky" on the last TD (which could have been a Philly TD).

That's a 21 point swing (which was the margin of victory).

Props to the Cards for winning but really this game should have been closer instead of a blowout.




That's hilarious. I suppose Kolb throwing for 200 yards and 2TDs in the 1st half was all luck.

Anybody who watched the game will know it wasn't close at all. The Cards went conservative in the 2nd half to run clock as Vick was getting beaten down like a mule. You can believe margin definitely could have been larger.

The Eagles have had the same coach and system for about 10 years. If the Cards are the only team who know their tendencies than lol.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shorty McFast wrote:
LA Niner Fan wrote:
and by no means should put an asterisk on a decisive victory that could have been even more of a blowout.



Wait... wut?

What are you referring to? The Cards got "lucky" on the first TD (2 Eagles touched it) and "lucky" on the last TD (which could have been a Philly TD).

That's a 21 point swing (which was the margin of victory).

Props to the Cards for winning but really this game should have been closer instead of a blowout.


Our forcing and recovering a fumble from a quarterback who's continually struggled with pre-snap recogntion and has fumbled the football 5 times this season was "luck"?

Good to know. That dramatically changes the "luck" outlook of the Seahawks and Patriots game for us.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#1CARDSFAN wrote:
Ataal wrote:
Man, contender or pretender....it's a little too black and white for me.

Bengals - This is a team you can't just sleep on. They're not the Colts from last year, but they're not Green Bay from last year, either. They're going to put up a fight and play to your level. Not quite good enough to dominate against a playoff team, yet, though. We'll see how the season progresses.

Vikings - Wow. What a turnaround from last year. They beat us up pretty good by using our own strategies against us. If Ponder can continue to be as efficient as he has been, this is a team that can beat anyone. The realist in me, however, just doesn't think that this is sustainable in the long haul. Because, what I see, is some great talent around Ponder as well. His efficiency is not only because of his throws, but his receivers' ability to make plays as well. Someone's going to have a bad game or six. It just happens. Very impressed with them so far.

Cardinals - The defense has stepped it up this year. No doubt about that. It wasn't very impressive against the Dolphins at home, but we'll see what happens in the next few games. Also, the O-line isn't as bad as we were led to believe. Or....is it? Is Kolb really that good? These are all very hard questions to answer in week 4. They're winning games, and you can call it division rivalry homerism if you wish, but let's take a look at these wins...

1. Seattle is 1st and goal, 2nd and goal, 3rd and goal, 4th and goal to win the game and couldn't do it. Braylon is exactly who we let go. Could have gone either way.

2. Cardinals handed the Patriots the game on a silver platter with a fumble by Williams. Patriots miss a field goal, though. Here's your silver platter back, Cardinals.

3. Eagles game I can't criticize too much. It was a decisive victory. If I had to put an asterisk on this game, it would be that Kolb helped the Cardinals beat them last year on the bench. The Eagles didn't change their signals. Well, that's not the only reason they won, but it certainly helped. Perhaps, when on the field at QB, Kolb was able to read some plays better than most QB's would. Don't harp on this too much, it's only a possible asterisk.

4. Poor clock management, a Miami fumble, and a HUGE catch allowed that was thrown from dang near the end zone allowed the Cardinals to tie it up. Another silver platter.

Here in Arizona, they've been named the Cardiac Cards. And, for good reason. They get themselves into a bind nearly every game(last year, too) and somehow....the ball bounces in their direction more often than not. Most people would say they'd rather be lucky than good any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I think they're both right now. Will the luck run out? Will Kolb continue to play well? Will the O-line continue to play better than expected? These are the reasons the Cardinals are almost never talked about, as in not even in the discussion, as the best team in the league right now, even though they're 4-0. Earth just sent the Cardinals a card that said, "I miss you. Come back."

Good and fair analysis. I am drinking the red kool aid at the moment based on the last 13 games the team has played but there are many question marks. They do have the killer instinct to never give up. Heart means alot in football. They were down 13-0 yesterday and battled back. There is talent up and down the roster and depth also. We shall see how it plays out.


Biggest thing with Arizona is that Once they get into those close games (Regardless of how they get there) they create chance to win those games and take them.

If you look at that Miami Game, a strip sack putting them in a place to score the tying TD, not luck, good play from the defense. In OT an A-Gap blitz getting a hit on the QB and ending in an INT, not luck, good play from the defense.

If you look at Arizona's OT wins last season. Peterson made a big play to run back a punt for a touchdown. Great play design against Dallas to get a screen to go for a TD. Vs Seattle we drove from our own 19 to hit a 26 yard FG, good offensive play. Vs the Browns we got a good PR from Peterson and a big pass play from Skelton to Fitz for 32 yards to set up a chipshot FG.

5-0 in their last 5 OT games because of their ability to make plays during the most important part of the game.

I'll tell you what was lucky yesterday; Arizona putting the ball on the ground 4 times (All on ST's) and recovering all of them.
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stchamp98


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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52981
Location: Havre, Montana
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
#1CARDSFAN wrote:
Ataal wrote:
Man, contender or pretender....it's a little too black and white for me.

Bengals - This is a team you can't just sleep on. They're not the Colts from last year, but they're not Green Bay from last year, either. They're going to put up a fight and play to your level. Not quite good enough to dominate against a playoff team, yet, though. We'll see how the season progresses.

Vikings - Wow. What a turnaround from last year. They beat us up pretty good by using our own strategies against us. If Ponder can continue to be as efficient as he has been, this is a team that can beat anyone. The realist in me, however, just doesn't think that this is sustainable in the long haul. Because, what I see, is some great talent around Ponder as well. His efficiency is not only because of his throws, but his receivers' ability to make plays as well. Someone's going to have a bad game or six. It just happens. Very impressed with them so far.

Cardinals - The defense has stepped it up this year. No doubt about that. It wasn't very impressive against the Dolphins at home, but we'll see what happens in the next few games. Also, the O-line isn't as bad as we were led to believe. Or....is it? Is Kolb really that good? These are all very hard questions to answer in week 4. They're winning games, and you can call it division rivalry homerism if you wish, but let's take a look at these wins...

1. Seattle is 1st and goal, 2nd and goal, 3rd and goal, 4th and goal to win the game and couldn't do it. Braylon is exactly who we let go. Could have gone either way.

2. Cardinals handed the Patriots the game on a silver platter with a fumble by Williams. Patriots miss a field goal, though. Here's your silver platter back, Cardinals.

3. Eagles game I can't criticize too much. It was a decisive victory. If I had to put an asterisk on this game, it would be that Kolb helped the Cardinals beat them last year on the bench. The Eagles didn't change their signals. Well, that's not the only reason they won, but it certainly helped. Perhaps, when on the field at QB, Kolb was able to read some plays better than most QB's would. Don't harp on this too much, it's only a possible asterisk.

4. Poor clock management, a Miami fumble, and a HUGE catch allowed that was thrown from dang near the end zone allowed the Cardinals to tie it up. Another silver platter.

Here in Arizona, they've been named the Cardiac Cards. And, for good reason. They get themselves into a bind nearly every game(last year, too) and somehow....the ball bounces in their direction more often than not. Most people would say they'd rather be lucky than good any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I think they're both right now. Will the luck run out? Will Kolb continue to play well? Will the O-line continue to play better than expected? These are the reasons the Cardinals are almost never talked about, as in not even in the discussion, as the best team in the league right now, even though they're 4-0. Earth just sent the Cardinals a card that said, "I miss you. Come back."

Good and fair analysis. I am drinking the red kool aid at the moment based on the last 13 games the team has played but there are many question marks. They do have the killer instinct to never give up. Heart means alot in football. They were down 13-0 yesterday and battled back. There is talent up and down the roster and depth also. We shall see how it plays out.


If you look at that Miami Game, a strip sack putting them in a place to score the tying TD, not luck, good play from the defense. In OT an A-Gap blitz getting a hit on the QB and ending in an INT, not luck, good play from the defense..


You sure it's not luck? You sure timely defensive playcalling and highly talented defensive players executing those plays isn't all luck? Sounds to me like it could be.
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SFaithful97


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 2975
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
khodder wrote:
#1CARDSFAN wrote:
Ataal wrote:
Man, contender or pretender....it's a little too black and white for me.

Bengals - This is a team you can't just sleep on. They're not the Colts from last year, but they're not Green Bay from last year, either. They're going to put up a fight and play to your level. Not quite good enough to dominate against a playoff team, yet, though. We'll see how the season progresses.

Vikings - Wow. What a turnaround from last year. They beat us up pretty good by using our own strategies against us. If Ponder can continue to be as efficient as he has been, this is a team that can beat anyone. The realist in me, however, just doesn't think that this is sustainable in the long haul. Because, what I see, is some great talent around Ponder as well. His efficiency is not only because of his throws, but his receivers' ability to make plays as well. Someone's going to have a bad game or six. It just happens. Very impressed with them so far.

Cardinals - The defense has stepped it up this year. No doubt about that. It wasn't very impressive against the Dolphins at home, but we'll see what happens in the next few games. Also, the O-line isn't as bad as we were led to believe. Or....is it? Is Kolb really that good? These are all very hard questions to answer in week 4. They're winning games, and you can call it division rivalry homerism if you wish, but let's take a look at these wins...

1. Seattle is 1st and goal, 2nd and goal, 3rd and goal, 4th and goal to win the game and couldn't do it. Braylon is exactly who we let go. Could have gone either way.

2. Cardinals handed the Patriots the game on a silver platter with a fumble by Williams. Patriots miss a field goal, though. Here's your silver platter back, Cardinals.

3. Eagles game I can't criticize too much. It was a decisive victory. If I had to put an asterisk on this game, it would be that Kolb helped the Cardinals beat them last year on the bench. The Eagles didn't change their signals. Well, that's not the only reason they won, but it certainly helped. Perhaps, when on the field at QB, Kolb was able to read some plays better than most QB's would. Don't harp on this too much, it's only a possible asterisk.

4. Poor clock management, a Miami fumble, and a HUGE catch allowed that was thrown from dang near the end zone allowed the Cardinals to tie it up. Another silver platter.

Here in Arizona, they've been named the Cardiac Cards. And, for good reason. They get themselves into a bind nearly every game(last year, too) and somehow....the ball bounces in their direction more often than not. Most people would say they'd rather be lucky than good any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I think they're both right now. Will the luck run out? Will Kolb continue to play well? Will the O-line continue to play better than expected? These are the reasons the Cardinals are almost never talked about, as in not even in the discussion, as the best team in the league right now, even though they're 4-0. Earth just sent the Cardinals a card that said, "I miss you. Come back."

Good and fair analysis. I am drinking the red kool aid at the moment based on the last 13 games the team has played but there are many question marks. They do have the killer instinct to never give up. Heart means alot in football. They were down 13-0 yesterday and battled back. There is talent up and down the roster and depth also. We shall see how it plays out.


If you look at that Miami Game, a strip sack putting them in a place to score the tying TD, not luck, good play from the defense. In OT an A-Gap blitz getting a hit on the QB and ending in an INT, not luck, good play from the defense..


You sure it's not luck? You sure timely defensive playcalling and highly talented defensive players executing those plays isn't all luck? Sounds to me like it could be.
Shame on you for not knowing that. If an NFC West team has been getting good results, they are obviously just lucky. Teams just happen to have really bad days offensively when they travel to the west coast (or when visited by a team from the west coast). The time difference is also really tough coming out this way from the eastern half of the country you know... much tougher than the opposite. Everything just seems to go right for the NFC West, just a lucky division.
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INbengalfan


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 5674
Location: Richmond, IN
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
INbengalfan wrote:
BlaqOptic wrote:
You also haven't been missing 2 of your best defenders...And it helps to play the Browns.


Uh, we have been missing several key defenders. Hall, Dunlap, Kirkpatrick, Clements, Sims just to name a few. But since you were just referring to Suggs...

You have beaten the Browns too.

And despite beating the "lower" tier teams, three of our four games have been on the road, not prime time home games. Just sayin............

But we do have plenty of question marks to overcome, so doubt all you want.

Wait, what?? You do realize that BlaqOptic is a Steelers fan, right? So what's with all this pent up aggression towards the Ravens in your post. Laughing


Embarassed My bad. Seven hours of sleep from Thursday to Sunday while running a 200 mile relay will do that to a person.
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coors


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see the Cardinals being contenders because of how stout their defense is. I'm still not sold one bit on either of Kolb or Skelton, but so far their QB play has been good enough to be undefeated so far this year. If they can continue to get the QB play they have had, while not turning the ball over often, then I see this Cards team as a team that you don't want to face.

I'm having a hard time deciding whether a contender or a pretender with the Bengals and the Vikings. One issue I have is that both of those teams play in highly competitive divisions. For the Vikes, they have Green Bay, Chicago, and Detriot all in their division.. and I personally see the Packers and the Bears being better teams than the Vikes, and going into this year I would have said I thought that the Lions would also be a better team, but for some reason so far this year the Lions have not looked good and are 1-3 so far on the year, compared to the Vikes 3-1. I could be completely wrong, but I feel that by the end of the year the Bears and Packers will finish out with better records than the Vikes will. For the Bengals, I think that the Ravens for sure and most likely the Steelers are better. Even though coming into the year I would have forsure said the Steelers were a better team, so far this year it seems like their age on defense as well as injuries could end up haunting them. I see the Bengals finishing at best as the 2nd place team in the AFC North behind the Ravens.
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Shorty McFast


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HighMotorGuy wrote:
That's hilarious. I suppose Kolb throwing for 200 yards and 2TDs in the 1st half was all luck.


On Kolbs first TD the ball was touched by an Eagle LB first, then a Cardinal WR, then a Eagle DB, then the same Cardinal WR... yeah, pure skill there. I'm sure that's exactly how they drew it up.

I can see it now. "Hey Kevin, we need you to stare down your receiver to draw the LB over then throw it at him real hard!".


Again. Congrats to the Cards for going 4-0. That's not easy for anyone.
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49ersfan


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cardinals just lost to the Rams 17-3 and they go to 4-1. Their OL has given up 17 sacks in their last 2 games. They play the Bills in 10 days for their next game.

Does this game change any thoughts on the Cardinals?
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Django


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
The Cardinals just lost to the Rams 17-3 and they go to 4-1. Their OL has given up 17 sacks in their last 2 games. They play the Bills in 10 days for their next game.

Does this game change any thoughts on the Cardinals?


Well..they play the Bills so that should give them a good confidence boost.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the Cardinals next five games, i see:

4 losses: Vikings, 49ers, Packers, Falcons

1 win: Bills

Should be a rough stretch for AZ with the Vikes, 49ers and Packers coming up. All three teams have dangerous pass rushers and its clear, if you get pressure the Cards Oline is simply not good enough to keep Kolb upright.

So that would put AZ at 4-5 when they take on the Rams at home on Nov. 25.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
The Cardinals just lost to the Rams 17-3 and they go to 4-1. Their OL has given up 17 sacks in their last 2 games. They play the Bills in 10 days for their next game.

Does this game change any thoughts on the Cardinals?


Nope. The Rams defense has absolutely stifled the opposing passing attack over the last 3 weeks.

Cards aren't dead in the water yet. Just need to adjust. We'll see if they can.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
Does this game change any thoughts on the Cardinals?


Imma try to not think about the Cardinals for the next 10 days.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cards will beat the Bills..
That defense is nasty..

I said this last week vs Seattle.
Rivalry games are no joke.
Stats and numbers get thrown
out the window. Both teams play
fast and strong.
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