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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 6764
Location: CA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
thelawoffices wrote:
I still don't quite understand what some of you expected this season. This team is lacking talent at numerous positions, mainly on defense, and the new regime had essentially no draft picks to actually address any needs. I didn't expect it to be this bad, but it's not a total shock, either. The step backwards this year will be worth it in the long run, IMO. If Hue was still here, the offense would almost certainly be better, but this team still wouldn't be a playoff team with this D. I'd rather have a 4-12/5-11 year and have a shot to draft an impact player (I'm firmly on the Jarvis Jones bandwagon right now) as opposed to another 8-8 year and being stuck in mediocrity.


The combination of Palmer and McFadden in Jackson's offense would have made for the best offense the Raiders have had in a while IMO. Both were perfect fits for the offense. Now the Raiders have arguably the worst rushing attack in the league.


Ok and this would have got us where exactly. Lets say we keep Hue and run the same offense. Lets say Palmer and Mcfadden ball. Just means teams will score 40 something instead of 30 something. It will be just like last year but worse. Having a good offense may have got us to 6 wins this season and we be going around this same dumb circle again.

People just dont get it. We had to suck this year to build this team 3/4s our starting roster isnt a part of the future. We have a lot of work to do. Trying to bandage the team to keep getting 6 or 7 wins isnt the right way to go.


This seasons offense would have easily been the best of Hue's 3 years IMO. The defense would still be bad, but I think the Raiders offense would give them the chance to compete in every game. The Raiders had the leagues best rushing attack last season with McFadden in that offense. Now they have the worst.

Why would it matter if the Raiders sucked or not this season in regards to it affecting the front offices ability of building the team? If you're trying to build a good team, isn't the best way to do that by hiring good coaches? Greg Knapp's firing is inevitable. Whether it's after this season or next, as long as he's the OC, the Raiders are just waisting time.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reggie McKenzie inherited a franchise with literally zero resources. He had no draft picks, no cap space, and was forced to cut our best cornerback and only pass rusher. At the beginning of this past offseason we were worse off then any franchise in the NFL in terms of flexibility to improve our football team. Dennis Allen and Reggie McKenzie are both in this for the long term, we're a couple years away from being a competitive football team. Al Davis ran the franchise into the ground with all of the draft picks he wasted on scrubs and all of the money he wasted signing average players to pricey deals. We need to rebuild our team on the offensive and defensive lines, acquire a young pass rusher, young corners, and offensive playmakers. Anyone expecting us to be competitive in the near future is delusional.
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J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 26648
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy molly, I literally come every week to check this forum out and there are some massive overreactions. What is the point of hiring someone and then firing him the very next season? There is some talent on this team, but it will take him to implement his system. Truthfully, there are quite a few positions that need to be upgraded. Look at the bright side, only 5 penalties Wink .
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Dreadymatt


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1039
Location: Saturn
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersAreOne wrote:
Good god, no... just no. This is a rebuilding team. We have some talent at positions, but lack serious depth and playmakers. Realistic fans knew this season that this team does not have to much potential. DA has done a good job imo. Our number one problem last year was penalties. He has done an EXCELLENT job of fixing that problem. That is what a real head coach does, something we have lacked for ages. He is a good motivator, excellent communicator and very bright on the defensive side of the ball.

We will get better with time. We have to be patient though. Reggie and Dennis know the weaknesses in this team, and will be very active this offseason. Dennis will get all of this year, and next imo. If there is no improvement throughout the next 2 years, then he will be on the hot seat. But for now the blame is not on him.


Completely agree, we're taking small steps forward, but Al left a lot of crap in the cupboard (bloated contracts) that will take a few years to deal with....don't be surprised if we bounce back strongly after the bye week (more experience of ZBS, possibly curry returning on d, carter up to speed, new CBS getting a handle on things....as a team we've had a tough transition)
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RaisinBran


Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 9564
Location: 925/805
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
thelawoffices wrote:
I still don't quite understand what some of you expected this season. This team is lacking talent at numerous positions, mainly on defense, and the new regime had essentially no draft picks to actually address any needs. I didn't expect it to be this bad, but it's not a total shock, either. The step backwards this year will be worth it in the long run, IMO. If Hue was still here, the offense would almost certainly be better, but this team still wouldn't be a playoff team with this D. I'd rather have a 4-12/5-11 year and have a shot to draft an impact player (I'm firmly on the Jarvis Jones bandwagon right now) as opposed to another 8-8 year and being stuck in mediocrity.


The combination of Palmer and McFadden in Jackson's offense would have made for the best offense the Raiders have had in a while IMO. Both were perfect fits for the offense. Now the Raiders have arguably the worst rushing attack in the league.


Ok and this would have got us where exactly. Lets say we keep Hue and run the same offense. Lets say Palmer and Mcfadden ball. Just means teams will score 40 something instead of 30 something. It will be just like last year but worse. Having a good offense may have got us to 6 wins this season and we be going around this same dumb circle again.

People just dont get it. We had to suck this year to build this team 3/4s our starting roster isnt a part of the future. We have a lot of work to do. Trying to bandage the team to keep getting 6 or 7 wins isnt the right way to go.


This seasons offense would have easily been the best of Hue's 3 years IMO. The defense would still be bad, but I think the Raiders offense would give them the chance to compete in every game. The Raiders had the leagues best rushing attack last season with McFadden in that offense. Now they have the worst.

Why would it matter if the Raiders sucked or not this season in regards to it affecting the front offices ability of building the team? If you're trying to build a good team, isn't the best way to do that by hiring good coaches? Greg Knapp's firing is inevitable. Whether it's after this season or next, as long as he's the OC, the Raiders are just waisting time.

I agree with you here 100% Darkness.
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augie77


Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 11
Location: greenville pa
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im sick of everyone complaining about carson palmer i think he has played very well
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21250
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
thelawoffices wrote:
I still don't quite understand what some of you expected this season. This team is lacking talent at numerous positions, mainly on defense, and the new regime had essentially no draft picks to actually address any needs. I didn't expect it to be this bad, but it's not a total shock, either. The step backwards this year will be worth it in the long run, IMO. If Hue was still here, the offense would almost certainly be better, but this team still wouldn't be a playoff team with this D. I'd rather have a 4-12/5-11 year and have a shot to draft an impact player (I'm firmly on the Jarvis Jones bandwagon right now) as opposed to another 8-8 year and being stuck in mediocrity.


The combination of Palmer and McFadden in Jackson's offense would have made for the best offense the Raiders have had in a while IMO. Both were perfect fits for the offense. Now the Raiders have arguably the worst rushing attack in the league.


Ok and this would have got us where exactly. Lets say we keep Hue and run the same offense. Lets say Palmer and Mcfadden ball. Just means teams will score 40 something instead of 30 something. It will be just like last year but worse. Having a good offense may have got us to 6 wins this season and we be going around this same dumb circle again.

People just dont get it. We had to suck this year to build this team 3/4s our starting roster isnt a part of the future. We have a lot of work to do. Trying to bandage the team to keep getting 6 or 7 wins isnt the right way to go.


This seasons offense would have easily been the best of Hue's 3 years IMO. The defense would still be bad, but I think the Raiders offense would give them the chance to compete in every game. The Raiders had the leagues best rushing attack last season with McFadden in that offense. Now they have the worst.

Why would it matter if the Raiders sucked or not this season in regards to it affecting the front offices ability of building the team? If you're trying to build a good team, isn't the best way to do that by hiring good coaches? Greg Knapp's firing is inevitable. Whether it's after this season or next, as long as he's the OC, the Raiders are just waisting time.


I dont like the Gregg Knapp hire either but I much rather waste a year on him than waste a year with Hue Jackson as head coach. At least with Knapp we get good draft picks and we move in the direction they want the offense to go. Even is Knapp is fired this year another ZBS guy will be brought in. So we needed to get the ZBS learning curve started as soon as possible anyway. Wasting a year on Hue Jacskon to get pick 14 or 15 in the draft and still having to start over anyway wouldnt have been start.
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pHaT_dEsI


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 782
Location: Yoc-Town
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rabid
And
Impatient
Dreamers
Evading
Reality
Seasonally
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Preacher


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 820
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfect time for the Bye-week.

If I remember correctly DA's defense last years with the donk's did not start playing well until week 8. I hate what si going on with our D, but I do have hope as the season goes on, they will get better.


As for the O- nothing to say

Special teams- ????
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5354
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
gerLd wrote:
i dont like our defense coverage is too soft, we get picked apart.


News flash: our corners suck. Sorry but you can't play press with these guys, they'd get burned every time. heck we have a safety playing cb usually corners become safeties when they get old not the other way around. The only good people on our defense is Burris and Wheeler. I'm done with McClain, homie isn't the phyical thumper and he sure as heck isn't the mental field general. If he was one or the other I'd say keep him but he's not and he was suppose to be both! This defense needs an overhaul bad.


+1

When your top 3 CBs are a FS, Pat Lee, and Joselio Hanson you need to play a bit safer.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21250
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
gerLd wrote:
i dont like our defense coverage is too soft, we get picked apart.


News flash: our corners suck. Sorry but you can't play press with these guys, they'd get burned every time. heck we have a safety playing cb usually corners become safeties when they get old not the other way around. The only good people on our defense is Burris and Wheeler. I'm done with McClain, homie isn't the phyical thumper and he sure as heck isn't the mental field general. If he was one or the other I'd say keep him but he's not and he was suppose to be both! This defense needs an overhaul bad.


+1

When your top 3 CBs are a FS, Pat Lee, and Joselio Hanson you need to play a bit safer.


Disagree. No point of playing it safe just to get drove down the field every drive. You blitz, you send extra men, you disguise coverages. Youy dont rush four when you know your pass rush sucks.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5354
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone needs to realize that the last 7-10 years we were not rebuilding, and that was the problem. We were just a crappy team that wasnt doing anything to improve. Rebuilding actually requires serious change- and a new HC every year does not do the trick. Al Davis was not rebuilding our team, he was trying (and failing) to win now. We needed surgery and he gave us a bandaid and some Tylenol and expected a Super Bowl. You cant afford to go all-in and win now unless you already have a solid foundation and a lot of talent- we had neither one. So like it or not THIS YEAR is the start of our rebuilding process. Dont blame Reggie, he is doing what should have been done years ago.
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La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5354
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
gerLd wrote:
i dont like our defense coverage is too soft, we get picked apart.


News flash: our corners suck. Sorry but you can't play press with these guys, they'd get burned every time. heck we have a safety playing cb usually corners become safeties when they get old not the other way around. The only good people on our defense is Burris and Wheeler. I'm done with McClain, homie isn't the phyical thumper and he sure as heck isn't the mental field general. If he was one or the other I'd say keep him but he's not and he was suppose to be both! This defense needs an overhaul bad.


+1

When your top 3 CBs are a FS, Pat Lee, and Joselio Hanson you need to play a bit safer.


Disagree. No point of playing it safe just to get drove down the field every drive. You blitz, you send extra men, you disguise coverages. Youy dont rush four when you know your pass rush sucks.


I wasnt talking about the entire defense, I was referring to the original poster saying our coverage plays too far off. Our CBs are terrible and our safeties arent very good either, considering Gio is our starting FS and Branch isnt great in coverage. If we played up on the WRs they would smoke our CBs and our safeties wouldnt be able to do much to help IMO.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5185
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
gerLd wrote:
i dont like our defense coverage is too soft, we get picked apart.


News flash: our corners suck. Sorry but you can't play press with these guys, they'd get burned every time. heck we have a safety playing cb usually corners become safeties when they get old not the other way around. The only good people on our defense is Burris and Wheeler. I'm done with McClain, homie isn't the phyical thumper and he sure as heck isn't the mental field general. If he was one or the other I'd say keep him but he's not and he was suppose to be both! This defense needs an overhaul bad.


+1

When your top 3 CBs are a FS, Pat Lee, and Joselio Hanson you need to play a bit safer.


Disagree. No point of playing it safe just to get drove down the field every drive. You blitz, you send extra men, you disguise coverages. Youy dont rush four when you know your pass rush sucks.



We blitzed fairly often, didn't help at all though.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 2869
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
gerLd wrote:
i dont like our defense coverage is too soft, we get picked apart.


News flash: our corners suck. Sorry but you can't play press with these guys, they'd get burned every time. heck we have a safety playing cb usually corners become safeties when they get old not the other way around. The only good people on our defense is Burris and Wheeler. I'm done with McClain, homie isn't the phyical thumper and he sure as heck isn't the mental field general. If he was one or the other I'd say keep him but he's not and he was suppose to be both! This defense needs an overhaul bad.


+1

When your top 3 CBs are a FS, Pat Lee, and Joselio Hanson you need to play a bit safer.


Disagree. No point of playing it safe just to get drove down the field every drive. You blitz, you send extra men, you disguise coverages. Youy dont rush four when you know your pass rush sucks.



We blitzed fairly often, didn't help at all though.


This game was a catch 22 for us. Either we don't blitz and manning stays in the pocket forever and our corners get beat and he throws to them. Or we blitz he sees the hole and completes the pass. Either way we were screwed.

If anyone thinks we need to draft anything other than a pass rushing DE needs to get their head checked.
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