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Did we make a big mistake?
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Preacher


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 820
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes we made some mistakes.

I do believe DA will be a good HC. I think his major mistake is Knapp. He should be using Saunders..could happen after bye
Pray

Reggie really had nothing to work with...cap space etc.

Next off-season will go a long way to seeing what we have and what we can pick up.
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Burgesskills


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1114
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

RaidersAreOne wrote:
DA has done a good job imo.


Not sure how anyone could say that. It's inconclusive either way at the moment.


Exactly we cant's say if he is doing a good job. So what the team has looks to have cured the penalty problem, let's not forget until this week the league had replacement refs.

So far this has been far worse than I expected. I knew we would be poor, but I thought we'd at least be competitive. The scariest part is DA is a defensive minded coach and the D has been shredded every week.

Pass or run or both in each game.

I don't want to see our head coach carousel continue, because I think a little continuity would do this team so good, but so far its been pretty depressing.
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 20443
Location: Crown Town, CA
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burgesskills wrote:
Quote:

RaidersAreOne wrote:
DA has done a good job imo.


Not sure how anyone could say that. It's inconclusive either way at the moment.


Exactly we cant's say if he is doing a good job. So what the team has looks to have cured the penalty problem, let's not forget until this week the league had replacement refs.

So far this has been far worse than I expected. I knew we would be poor, but I thought we'd at least be competitive. The scariest part is DA is a defensive minded coach and the D has been shredded every week.

Pass or run or both in each game.

I don't want to see our head coach carousel continue, because I think a little continuity would do this team so good, but so far its been pretty depressing.


Kind of a crazy pattern because Cable was an OL coach and our line was terrible under him. The pieces aren't there right now. We're filled with late round picks and cheap free agents. I feel ya though. Never saw it getting this bad.
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Tacos


Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 1171
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though Palmer has played better than I expected, I can't wait until the Pryor nonsense comes up.

Hey, Tebow did it, maybe Pryor can too!

Ah well, at least the A's won.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5765
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#1RAIDER FAN wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
Good god, no... just no. This is a rebuilding team. We have some talent at positions, but lack serious depth and playmakers. Realistic fans knew this season that this team does not have to much potential. DA has done a good job imo. Our number one problem last year was penalties. He has done an EXCELLENT job of fixing that problem. That is what a real head coach does, something we have lacked for ages. He is a good motivator, excellent communicator and very bright on the defensive side of the ball.

We will get better with time. We have to be patient though. Reggie and Dennis know the weaknesses in this team, and will be very active this offseason. Dennis will get all of this year, and next imo. If there is no improvement throughout the next 2 years, then he will be on the hot seat. But for now the blame is not on him.


I'm just looking for positives. Penalties? Sure a positive. But just last year everyone said "this defense is talented but Breshnahan is holding them back." This year its the opposite, with a defensive minded head coach.

The team still has no gap discipline, cannot tackle, and majorly collapses in the 2nd half. Maybe the first two are talent related, but collapsing in the 2nd half is a coaching issue which still remains.

We need a spark of some sort. Hue provided that with risky calls. Fake field goals, fake punts, etc. Something to get things going. I don't know what he can do, but he's got to find something.

Obviously Knapp must go. He is just awful.

McClain is also awful. I cannot wait for him to be gone. Seymour is also probably not worth his salary with a couple deflections every few games.

I wish we could have found an impact player in the draft. Our top pick is hardly active for games...

We just had our biggest lost to the Broncos in 50 years. Is that really nothing to do with the HC? The Broncos also didn't punt. At least one side of the ball has to step up. I didn't even realize those 2 facts until they just said it.

We are 1-3. Blown out twice, and beaten badly once. The only win being by a field goal as time expired.

I'm just not seeing anything. We really shouldn't be so drastically worse than last season.


Not everyone said, some people said. Other people who understand football better said that there just was not talent there.

The team I am looking at is not really much different than the Tom Cable Raiders. Same team we've been. Prone to wins, then total halves where we fall asleep and get demolished.
That's what happens when you attempt to put in some sort of systems with players not drafted for systems.

Hue Jackson found success here because he played Al Davis offense and defense, which is what almost all the players here were drafted for. The problem with that is the same reason we used to stuff people all game then give up huge plays out of the blue. Same reason we would be doing fine then get destroyed for a half for no reason and a non descript team. It's because the team was playing street ball. Beating their man, 22 men playing on islands. When it comes down to taking the next step, as a team, winning games against good teams or when the chips are down, or when we have to win more than 8 games, well then there's a problem.


We'll more than likely suck this year. But unlike past years, it will be because the personnel has not been remade along with the organization. Past years it was because the team just wasn't that good, and the perceived talent on this team was just a delusion.

I would rather suck than give another year to BSing ourselves that somehow we're close to the playoffs, or close to success, when the fact is that we were never close. It always just seemed close. I've watched this team "seem" close for 20 damn years. And you guys are still telling yourselves the same crap. THIS team was never close. If one thing didn't fail it would be another. You can't build a team in the modern NFL based on bigger, stronger, faster. Not any more. Because everyone is big strong and fast.

What's the only good teams we have seen in 25 years? The ones built by Gruden and Allen (A GM) with a meticulous offensive system and the personnel shaped to fit it. That offense got us to the Super Bowl. Not the defense, not Al Davis. SYSTEM. Structure. Personnel fit specifically into defined roles. NOT PLAY CALLING. Execution, meticulous execution. But bigger than execution or play calling was the system and the personnel fit to it.

You know it's really important to get some sort of order and systems in place in a football organization. At this point I will take the systems before I'd take any of our players. I'd prefer to see every player we have cut before I want to see McKenzie or Allen fired. Because I want to see what this team can actually be if a GM and a coach have an actual chance to put a team in place, fit to a system, in a stable organization. For once.. Instead of 22 big fast guys winning one on one battles 78% of the time and losing games.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5362
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Way too GD soon to say something like this. Allen took over a team that has gone through 3 head coaches in 3 years, lost a lot of starters in the last few years, had next to nothing to work with as far as draft picks go, and had no cap room. This team was a mess by the end of last season, no HC could have come in and turned things around from day one. I know you are sick of waiting for our team to turn the corner and get back to the postseason- we all are. But look at whats going on and you will see some reason for optimism. One major positive is the penalties. We have cut our penalties/game in half from last year so far. Of course we still have some problems but as previously stated, its gonna take more than one offseason to fix that stuff with limited draft picks, limited money, and a roster full of average players.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5765
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
Way too GD soon to say something like this. Allen took over a team that has gone through 3 head coaches in 3 years, lost a lot of starters in the last few years, had next to nothing to work with as far as draft picks go, and had no cap room. This team was a mess by the end of last season, no HC could have come in and turned things around from day one. I know you are sick of waiting for our team to turn the corner and get back to the postseason- we all are. But look at whats going on and you will see some reason for optimism. One major positive is the penalties. We have cut our penalties/game in half from last year so far. Of course we still have some problems but as previously stated, its gonna take more than one offseason to fix that stuff with limited draft picks, limited money, and a roster full of average players.


Hue Jackson could have turned around this team. And turned an 8-8 team into another 8-8 team.
But if someone actually wants to make the team better, in the long run, then major things have to change.
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gerLd


Joined: 24 Mar 2008
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Location: Milpitas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont like our defense coverage is too soft, we get picked apart.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3027
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerLd wrote:
i dont like our defense coverage is too soft, we get picked apart.


News flash: our corners suck. Sorry but you can't play press with these guys, they'd get burned every time. heck we have a safety playing cb usually corners become safeties when they get old not the other way around. The only good people on our defense is Burris and Wheeler. I'm done with McClain, homie isn't the phyical thumper and he sure as heck isn't the mental field general. If he was one or the other I'd say keep him but he's not and he was suppose to be both! This defense needs an overhaul bad.
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Boltstrikes


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Joined: 15 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you guys dis. Chaz Schilens had a great game today. Sorry guys I couldn't resist it.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boltstrikes wrote:
Yes you guys dis. Chaz Schilens had a great game today. Sorry guys I couldn't resist it.


You guys beat a team that might be worse than ours. Congrats. Come back when you beat someone important.
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thelawoffices


Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 14282
Location: Depths of Gillette Mountain
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't quite understand what some of you expected this season. This team is lacking talent at numerous positions, mainly on defense, and the new regime had essentially no draft picks to actually address any needs. I didn't expect it to be this bad, but it's not a total shock, either. The step backwards this year will be worth it in the long run, IMO. If Hue was still here, the offense would almost certainly be better, but this team still wouldn't be a playoff team with this D. I'd rather have a 4-12/5-11 year and have a shot to draft an impact player (I'm firmly on the Jarvis Jones bandwagon right now) as opposed to another 8-8 year and being stuck in mediocrity.
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the irony of me alluding to the release of Schilens being your "big mistake" went over your head. The guy inherited this team with a steep lien against it with few draft picks and low cap room. You can't expect an entire organizational philosophy change to pay off before they've even had the chance at a full off season. I love the moves they made this year. I expected Seymour to be cut last off season due to his huge salary vs his age but they found a way to keep him and have made some good moves to address te foundation of this team. Give it 3 years before you start calling for heads.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7348
Location: CA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thelawoffices wrote:
I still don't quite understand what some of you expected this season. This team is lacking talent at numerous positions, mainly on defense, and the new regime had essentially no draft picks to actually address any needs. I didn't expect it to be this bad, but it's not a total shock, either. The step backwards this year will be worth it in the long run, IMO. If Hue was still here, the offense would almost certainly be better, but this team still wouldn't be a playoff team with this D. I'd rather have a 4-12/5-11 year and have a shot to draft an impact player (I'm firmly on the Jarvis Jones bandwagon right now) as opposed to another 8-8 year and being stuck in mediocrity.


The combination of Palmer and McFadden in Jackson's offense would have made for the best offense the Raiders have had in a while IMO. Both were perfect fits for the offense. Now the Raiders have arguably the worst rushing attack in the league.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21418
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
thelawoffices wrote:
I still don't quite understand what some of you expected this season. This team is lacking talent at numerous positions, mainly on defense, and the new regime had essentially no draft picks to actually address any needs. I didn't expect it to be this bad, but it's not a total shock, either. The step backwards this year will be worth it in the long run, IMO. If Hue was still here, the offense would almost certainly be better, but this team still wouldn't be a playoff team with this D. I'd rather have a 4-12/5-11 year and have a shot to draft an impact player (I'm firmly on the Jarvis Jones bandwagon right now) as opposed to another 8-8 year and being stuck in mediocrity.


The combination of Palmer and McFadden in Jackson's offense would have made for the best offense the Raiders have had in a while IMO. Both were perfect fits for the offense. Now the Raiders have arguably the worst rushing attack in the league.


Ok and this would have got us where exactly. Lets say we keep Hue and run the same offense. Lets say Palmer and Mcfadden ball. Just means teams will score 40 something instead of 30 something. It will be just like last year but worse. Having a good offense may have got us to 6 wins this season and we be going around this same dumb circle again.

People just dont get it. We had to suck this year to build this team 3/4s our starting roster isnt a part of the future. We have a lot of work to do. Trying to bandage the team to keep getting 6 or 7 wins isnt the right way to go.
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