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green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 47651
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spiel612 wrote:
Davey wrote:
Frankly, to me there are so many more needs. I think we've completely screwed up his development, and I don't know if he's ever going to be consistent enough to be the guy at this point, but he's only one part of a completely inept offense from top-to-bottom.

The Jets are awful running the ball, have a right tackle that is only marginally better than the worst RT in the league last season, and have played most the season with a bottom tier core of receivers. That does not excuse Sanchez's poor play completely because he's added his fair share - still poor on ball security, and has struggled with hitting receivers at times when they actually do get open, particularly over 20 yards.


Yeah we pretty much David Carred him.


That's exactly what I thought of when I saw him today. After his first two seasons he looked like he was a franchise QB. But then the organization got lazy in its development and showed that they didn't know how to raise a QB. I could not think of worse ways to treat a young QB.
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Spiel612


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Joined: 19 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No matter what though there is a ton of blame to go around. Shonn Greene deserves an absolute ton of it. While his lanes are usually non-existent, he does absolutely nothing with the football and has pretty much gone completely soft since his promising rookie season.

More then likely there is a big, big overhaul coming. My only concern is that Rex is going to start coaching for his job and throw Tebow out there and the worst thing that could happen right now for the Jets is for them to start winning games through smoke and mirrors and masking the abundance of flaws that they have.

They need to bottom out and it has to be now. It coincides perfectly with the increased cap space we're going to have next season thanks to getting a lot of contracts off the books.
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kilahchris


Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 542
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jets defense is still young and talented. Because of that fact alone I believe the Jets should avoid drafting any first round Qb next year.

I am much more open to either trading for a guy like Jake Cutler, or even to a lesser extent Kevin Kolb and have them work with some of the offensive weapons we have. Which would allow us to draft a top end Running back next year. IF the bears tank it this year they might be inclined to trade him and rebuild. They would certainly want a 2nd round pick.


I rather the Jets going that route rather than drafting another USC QB (Barkley) and waiting for 4 years for the man to develop. NO more QB from USC. They all tank it After Carson palmer there was Matt Leinart, Mark Sanchez, and Barkely will be the next USC QB to tank it.


NO more please no more QB from USC.

Maybe God will bless us and Drew Brees will demand a trade out of New Orleans. If that is the case the Jets should throw a first round draft pick and 4th round pick for him.

I can't go through another 4 years of QB trying to learn the game.
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JetFanSince85


Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 612
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rex needs to be a Head Coach not a cheerleader.....

He gave the players off Monday and Tuesday. How about they practice tackling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jetsfandan423


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Joined: 25 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JetFanSince85 wrote:
Rex needs to be a Head Coach not a cheerleader.....

He gave the players off Monday and Tuesday. How about they practice tackling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I really do think that the new CBA which limits tackling and physical play in practice, has hurt our team the most. Tackling has been a huge issue for us last year and now this year.
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JetFanSince85


Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 612
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetsfandan423 wrote:
JetFanSince85 wrote:
Rex needs to be a Head Coach not a cheerleader.....

He gave the players off Monday and Tuesday. How about they practice tackling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I really do think that the new CBA which limits tackling and physical play in practice, has hurt our team the most. Tackling has been a huge issue for us last year and now this year.


How about the 2010 AFC title game?

I'm done with this team. I want wholeslae changes on D.

Starters

Wilkerson, Pouha Ellis Coples
Mc Intyre, Harris Davis

That the front 7.
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Rockice_8


Joined: 05 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think as bad as Sanchez has been that he's going to get another year and I'm not totally against that. This team has so many other issues that drafting another QB like Smith isn't making us that much better.

Not that I think Sanchez is the answer but we seen him play well with talent around him. Let's work on other issues first before we go QB. The only QB I like really is Smith (not sure about Bray yet) so if we can't land him then we should wait.

Let's retool the rest of our problems first.
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KBS756


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I think we should stick with Sanchez but we desperately need to give him some talent. He looked great week 1 but then teams saw we really couldn't run the ball on anyone and now people just play the pass against us. DE's come off the edge hard gunning for our QB and coverages don't bite on fake runs. Sanchez does carry some blame tho he needs to keep his head and not get rattled by the pressure. But yesterday's game we just got completely manhandled in all phases. Our O-line got bullied as did our Dline. We desperately need Keller and Hill back so we can try to spread out the D because we really haven't had anyone be clean open often. Losing Santonio is going to hurt in that department because he is the only great intermediate route runner we have. The place where we are getting killed on offense the most is that we don't have any impact runners who will demand the d's attention. Even if the D overruns Greene he's slow enough they'll be able to make up for it and he really doesn't have the power on would expect for his build. We need an impact play maker at HB and our D needs to tackle well. If we changed those 2 things we might be 3-1 now. Honestly hope we keep Rex because the man knows how to coach but we need someone better at evaluating offensive talent.
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teamorange


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 13741
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spiel612 wrote:
Davey wrote:
Frankly, to me there are so many more needs. I think we've completely screwed up his development, and I don't know if he's ever going to be consistent enough to be the guy at this point, but he's only one part of a completely inept offense from top-to-bottom.

The Jets are awful running the ball, have a right tackle that is only marginally better than the worst RT in the league last season, and have played most the season with a bottom tier core of receivers. That does not excuse Sanchez's poor play completely because he's added his fair share - still poor on ball security, and has struggled with hitting receivers at times when they actually do get open, particularly over 20 yards.


Yeah we pretty much David Carred him.


We didn't David Carr him, Sanchez had his chance to develop and this was suppose to be the year he matured into a quality starter and have the ability to shoulder the load of the offense. We had a running game, we had a line that could keep him upright for two straight years; last year they regressed but he had enough time where he should've been able to produce. Carr was never given that chance.
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ekill08x


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
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Location: Bayport, New York
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teamorange wrote:
Spiel612 wrote:
Davey wrote:
Frankly, to me there are so many more needs. I think we've completely screwed up his development, and I don't know if he's ever going to be consistent enough to be the guy at this point, but he's only one part of a completely inept offense from top-to-bottom.

The Jets are awful running the ball, have a right tackle that is only marginally better than the worst RT in the league last season, and have played most the season with a bottom tier core of receivers. That does not excuse Sanchez's poor play completely because he's added his fair share - still poor on ball security, and has struggled with hitting receivers at times when they actually do get open, particularly over 20 yards.


Yeah we pretty much David Carred him.


We didn't David Carr him, Sanchez had his chance to develop and this was suppose to be the year he matured into a quality starter and have the ability to shoulder the load of the offense. We had a running game, we had a line that could keep him upright for two straight years; last year they regressed but he had enough time where he should've been able to produce. Carr was never given that chance.


I completely agree. We didnt David Carr him, he just happens to be another David Carr because hes not very good. You can't teach accuracy. You cant teach the kind to be mentally strong. Mark landed on a pretty damn good football team and never progressed ever. And this year hes been worse than ever. Its time to move on. Mark has never been bench in his career and has warrented it like 18 different times. Not that I want to see Tebow because I dont but god I dont want to see mark anymore either
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Rockice_8


Joined: 05 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said in my Stay or go thread we need to get two mauling OG's in here next season. It seems that Sanchez might get one more year so lets take some of this money that we save from all the overpaid guys we will cut next year and go out and get next years Carl Nicks and then look early in the 3rd to grab another mauler guard and really get this line back to it's G&P ways.

Guys like Greene/Powell are serviceable enough if we get some top notch guards in here to open some holes. By doing going this route we immediately take this offense to another level by improving the running game and also giving Sanchez more time to let these WR's get open.

I think with Holmes (even though I want him gone), Hill, Kerley, Schilens, Keller, and another good TE we have enough passing weapons to be successful, if we go and get these maulers. AP isn't running behind this o-line so it's time we make a serious effort to improve this line.
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Spiel612


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekill08x wrote:
teamorange wrote:
Spiel612 wrote:
Davey wrote:
Frankly, to me there are so many more needs. I think we've completely screwed up his development, and I don't know if he's ever going to be consistent enough to be the guy at this point, but he's only one part of a completely inept offense from top-to-bottom.

The Jets are awful running the ball, have a right tackle that is only marginally better than the worst RT in the league last season, and have played most the season with a bottom tier core of receivers. That does not excuse Sanchez's poor play completely because he's added his fair share - still poor on ball security, and has struggled with hitting receivers at times when they actually do get open, particularly over 20 yards.


Yeah we pretty much David Carred him.


We didn't David Carr him, Sanchez had his chance to develop and this was suppose to be the year he matured into a quality starter and have the ability to shoulder the load of the offense. We had a running game, we had a line that could keep him upright for two straight years; last year they regressed but he had enough time where he should've been able to produce. Carr was never given that chance.


I completely agree. We didnt David Carr him, he just happens to be another David Carr because hes not very good. You can't teach accuracy. You cant teach the kind to be mentally strong. Mark landed on a pretty damn good football team and never progressed ever. And this year hes been worse than ever. Its time to move on. Mark has never been bench in his career and has warrented it like 18 different times. Not that I want to see Tebow because I dont but god I dont want to see mark anymore either


Got him killed in 2011, though not as often as Carr was during his career, but definitely shell shocked him. We took away his best deep threat and failed to address a floundering running game.

We took away any chance of success for Sanchez. David Carr may not be the best comparison, but right now it's the one I'm going with. Nothing will compare to the garbage Tim Couch and David Carr went through in their first years, but what Sanchez has played with in 2011 and now in 2012 are certainly not enviable situations and have led to, not a regression, but minimal development and the development of bad habits.

Call it whatever you want. We did screw up his development. It's not all on Mark. It's not all on the Jets. It was a nice little team effort.
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Colt45fool


Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Location: New Haven, CT
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You see, but I see Sanchez making mistakes that he's been making since he started in the league. That accuracy has just never improved. It wasn't good when he had Holmes/Edwards and it isn't any better now. When he has time to throw and the receivers are open he's just missing guys.

His supporting cast is worse, sure, but at times I feel he really hasn't gotten much better than he was at his second and early in his third season. He's playing as bad now as I'd have expected to him play if, say, the entire supporting cast was taken away from him in 2010. At some point the training wheels have to come off and he needs to make other players better. He needs to make bad players below average. Below average players average. Average players good. Look at what guys like Eli and Rivers do for their revolving cast of receivers or what McNabb was able to do in Philadelphia. Right now, the supporting cast sucks and he's drowning with them. In your fourth season, that's unacceptable.
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KBS756


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spiel612 wrote:


Got him killed in 2011, though not as often as Carr was during his career, but definitely shell shocked him. We took away his best deep threat and failed to address a floundering running game.

We took away any chance of success for Sanchez. David Carr may not be the best comparison, but right now it's the one I'm going with. Nothing will compare to the garbage Tim Couch and David Carr went through in their first years, but what Sanchez has played with in 2011 and now in 2012 are certainly not enviable situations and have led to, not a regression, but minimal development and the development of bad habits.

Call it whatever you want. We did screw up his development. It's not all on Mark. It's not all on the Jets. It was a nice little team effort.


I agree we did really mess up Sanchez's development over the years so far in his career. A lot of people want to put everything on his shoulders because he's the QB and the face of the franchise but the last 2 years we've really fielded declining talent around him. If we look at what he has compared to top Quarterbacks in the NFL it is pretty apparent he hasn't been set up to succeed from a talent standpoint. Our once dominant Offensive Line has become pretty Sub-Par with 2 Pro Bowlers but lacking along the other 3 positions. The run game we were at a time able to lean on and utilize to our advantage is no longer even a threat... Teams will continue focusing their attention on killin our passing game if we cant prove to be able to threaten them on the ground. I believe there was talk of several decent HBs on the trading block this past off season we really should have taken a chance on someone we really need someone who can take it to the house when there's a hole. Greene is just too slow... even if we get good blocking by the time he hits the hole it may not even exist and he doesnt seem to run with power.

And when it comes to what Sanchez has last week ... Holmes was the only legit starting player we fielded who actually can catch the ball. Cumberland is very inconsistent and doesn't have Keller's ability, Greene does not have hands meant for receiving. And Schilens is not really a starter with only 72 receptions and 7 TDs in a 5 year career. We sorely missed Hill even though he may have questionable hands ... (really needs to use them rather than catching with his body) at least he possesses speed to stretch the field and force the D to pay attention to him.

I am frankly scared to see what happens on Monday night since we are guaranteed to be without Santonio and Keller and Hill may not play leaving us with Kerley and Schillens as starters, or worse Schillens and Turner.

As a team we havent really done Sanchez any favors in terms of putting him out there with the pieces to succeed. Look at successful young QBs in the NFL right now.

Matt Ryan WRs Julio Jones, Roddy White, Harry Douglas TE - Tony Gonzales HB - Michael Turner

Joe Flacco WRs Anquan Boldin Torrey Smith TE Dennis Pitta and Ed Dickson HB Ray Rice (In my opinion the best all around HB in the NFL today)

Matt Stafford WRs Calvin Johnson Nate Burleson TEs Brandon Pettigrew (Dont really have a HB though)

Cam Newton WRs Steve Smith TE Greg Olsen HBs Deangelo Williams Johnathan Stewart

Andy Dalton WRs AJ Greene TE Jermaine Gresham HB Benjarvis Green Ellis

They've been successful and theyve had concerted efforts to surround them with talent ...

Santonio Holmes isnt even close to as good as most of those 1st WRs I might give him a tie with Steve Smith

Keller who hasnt even been healthy may be the only place we come close

Other than the Lions we are far worse at HB then all of them.

We havent set up our Offense to succeed ...

We also have a the great tackling fiasco going on on D to deal with as well ... even when in position we fail to bring the ball carier down
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Darrelle Revis


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sanchez can play extremely well once in a while, but the truth is that he is pretty bad for the most part. His decision making is still poor and he hasn't improved enough in that area or accuracy to warrant starting anymore.

We need to find a new QB in the offseason.
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