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Homer/hater stuff aside...Is Dallas now a joke?
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Calvert28


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 16734
Location: Adopt a Player: McGee
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawksrealm wrote:
Calvert28 wrote:
Hawksrealm wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:


In a nutshell, she basically makes that point that when Jimmy Johnson was in charge of player acquisition etc, it was fine for Jerry to get involved in everything else because there was still a football guy running the football team. Since Jimmy left, Jerry has been too focused on everything that would make him a great owner and not focused enough on what would make him a great GM. I would wager that the overwhelming majority of the forum agree with that point. There are only 5 of you that would probably disagree.


What exactly was Jimmy Johnson in charge of, maybe firing kickers? Tex Schram and Landry wanted Aikman....Johnson sure as hell didn't. Aikman was drafted, seems to me Schram was still in charge at that moment in time.
JJ hired Norv Turner....sure as hell wasn't Johnson, Zampese called the plays, sure as hell wasn't Johnson. Really what was Jumpin Jimini in charge of...oh yeah I remember, he was in charge of running his mouth at cocktail parties. I give as much credit to Switzer as I'd give to Johnson, for the 90s teams. Most of the credit still goes to Schram and Landry, and Hershal Walker....for what the 90s team became.


Where in the world did you get those ideas from?

Johnson was brought in after Landry was gone and that Walker trade was all Jimmy, he revolutionized the way teams drafted after his success with his early 92 and 93 teams with that Walker trade which was his idea. And you can look at that up.


Landry was fired so JJ could hire his Arkansas buddy Jimmy. Everything I said is well documented and easy to prove. Jimmy cut all the leadership Cowboys and managed to go 1-15. But there was still a big neucleus left over to build on (Landrys guys). It was the Vikings who broke their back wanting Hershal, and as far as I know it ws Jerry Jones made the deal....not Jimmy Johnson. Norv was brought in to handle Troy Aikman, who Jimmy said "was a loser in College and would always be one". Even you must know with your limited knowledge that Jimmy wanted Steve Walsh?

See the problem here is most you guys that post here got on board in 92 and worship at Johnsons feet. When in fact you have brainwashed yourselves to made up facts that you keep repeating year after year. Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you dig deep, you'll find out most of what is said, just isn't true.

Do you really not know that Tex Schram was still there after landry was fired. Schram announced at the owners meeting in 1989 that he would be leaving the Cowboys to help Landry set up the new European League. Gee Did you know that? There are a million facts you guys that worship Jimmy Johnson are not aware of. But us guys who have been with the Cowboys since the 60s really don't share your beliefs, thats why most of us don't post here anymore.


http://www.bettertradessports.com/best-worst-trade/herschel-for-8draftpicks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/478287-herschel-walker-from-dallas-to-minnesota-the-great-trade-robbery

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/10/with_the_herschel_walker_trade.html

This and more on just the first page after a google search on who brokered the deal. Crediting Jimmy not Jerry or anyone else with the idea. One of which said hiring Jimmy is the only bright thing Jerry has ever done.

So not where you get the "it can be easily proved" idea that none of the 90's success was Jimmy's but everyone but him. That's probably one of the most asinine statements I've ever read, and I really can't find anyplace through searching and in all my years of following the Cowboys that would support your story.

The very large majority including Jimmy himself states that he was the success for that stuff. So I would like to see this evidence that states it was Schrams and Landry's doing for the 90's success which is another asinine statement. Because all the talent in the world means nothing without execution and coaching all of which Jimmy had in spades because as seen with numerous teams including some of our previous teams with Sean Payton and Parcells that coaching starts from at the top
and can have disastrous effects if a set gameplan and mindset is not in place to build a winning program.

And I know that Jimmy wanted Walsh because he wasn't sure Aikman would work out. AIkman did infact have some question marks about his health and had already had problems with concussions before even entering the NFL. Speaking of knowledge I figured you would at least know that. And where exactly did Jimmy said Aikman was a loser? I would like a source. ANd while your finding that, Jerry did not make the deal, because it was Jimmy who approached the Vikings with the deal in which Jerry only signed off on. Jimmy has been credited with outmenuevering Lynn. When did Schram or Landry ever attempt a trade where they gave a superstar for a bunch of draft picks? The answer is never. Landry was loyal to a fault, a fact which he was loved for. But nevertheless further proves Jimmy credit on the deal. You could say Jerry, except Jerry has tried to repeat the big trade deals numerous times after Jimmy left and with catastrophic consequences, namely the Deion trade which put us in salary cap hell, Galloway, Roy Williams, etc and so forth.

And what does Landry and Schram developing a Europe league have anything to do with the conversation? Did you know that the Cowboys were in danger of losing their franchise to the already then popular Dallas Texans which later became known as the Kansas City Chiefs?


See where I went with that? Absolutely nowhere, so take a lesson.
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dahobofest


Joined: 20 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sports are a joke... they're just games. People take them too seriously.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think he's saying Jimmy gets no credit. Just not all of it.

Least thats what I'm saying.
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The_Slamman


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
I don't think he's saying Jimmy gets no credit. Just not all of it.

Least thats what I'm saying.


Re-read his post. He's saying Jimmy deserves as much credit as Barry Switzer. IMO, that dude's post set the nadir for forum posting. In 8 years of posting here, I honestly thought I had seen everything. I now stand corrected. His post is the forum equivalent of pregnant teen heroin addiction but with less truth.
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WareWolf94


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 5510
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NFL is a business. And Jerry Jones as always stated that Cowboys stadium is not just an NFL stadium, it will be a year round stadium.

He's intelligent. The VS store for example, how many wives go with their husbands to sporting events and HATE sports?

A ton. So you build a bunch of places in the stadium where they can look around and have fun.

You create an environment thats suitable and welcoming to both parties so they'll come back.

I look at teams like the Jets as a joke. Ryan always promises Super Bowl, talks trash, makes crazy trades.

That's the Cowboys of old. Since Garrett has taken over, this team has been nothing but hard workers, keeping your mouth shut and going out and playing football. The one anomaly is Rob Ryan (coincidentally enough) and he's even stopped making himself so noticeable.

Of course the punchline is the Cowboys haven't won anything in 15 years.....sure they haven't. Only 10 teams have won Super Bowls since the Cowboys. Steelers fans have dealt with it before they won another, and we'll deal with it until we get another. Its the way of the world.
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Calvert28


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WareWolf94 wrote:
The NFL is a business. And Jerry Jones as always stated that Cowboys stadium is not just an NFL stadium, it will be a year round stadium.

He's intelligent. The VS store for example, how many wives go with their husbands to sporting events and HATE sports?

A ton. So you build a bunch of places in the stadium where they can look around and have fun.

You create an environment thats suitable and welcoming to both parties so they'll come back.

I look at teams like the Jets as a joke. Ryan always promises Super Bowl, talks trash, makes crazy trades.

That's the Cowboys of old. Since Garrett has taken over, this team has been nothing but hard workers, keeping your mouth shut and going out and playing football. The one anomaly is Rob Ryan (coincidentally enough) and he's even stopped making himself so noticeable.

Of course the punchline is the Cowboys haven't won anything in 15 years.....sure they haven't. Only 10 teams have won Super Bowls since the Cowboys. Steelers fans have dealt with it before they won another, and we'll deal with it until we get another. Its the way of the world.


Nobody has ever questioned Jerry's love for the team or his marketing skills. It's his inability to be a GM is what we've come to loathe and the fact that he refuses to step down because of pride is the reason we can't stand him. He is a great owner.....at marketing and dedication. Not X's and O's.
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PincheJimmy


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only had to look at the name of the writer to know the article is crap. She is horrible ( look up sone of her articles for proof Smile . I am a realist, Yes , I wish Jerry would hire a GM but I know that wont happen anytime soon, at least he is willing to spend the money to get players unlike many owners who just want to line their pocket. Who cares if partner with VS to open a store ( smart move on his part as a owner) , so continue on with this silly argument and ill keep supporting Jerry and our Cowboys! Big game tomorrow, we need a W
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Hawksrealm


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 260
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TD-ES-JJ wrote:
Hawksrealm wrote:
Calvert28 wrote:
Hawksrealm wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:


In a nutshell, she basically makes that point that when Jimmy Johnson was in charge of player acquisition etc, it was fine for Jerry to get involved in everything else because there was still a football guy running the football team. Since Jimmy left, Jerry has been too focused on everything that would make him a great owner and not focused enough on what would make him a great GM. I would wager that the overwhelming majority of the forum agree with that point. There are only 5 of you that would probably disagree.


What exactly was Jimmy Johnson in charge of, maybe firing kickers? Tex Schram and Landry wanted Aikman....Johnson sure as hell didn't. Aikman was drafted, seems to me Schram was still in charge at that moment in time.
JJ hired Norv Turner....sure as hell wasn't Johnson, Zampese called the plays, sure as hell wasn't Johnson. Really what was Jumpin Jimini in charge of...oh yeah I remember, he was in charge of running his mouth at cocktail parties. I give as much credit to Switzer as I'd give to Johnson, for the 90s teams. Most of the credit still goes to Schram and Landry, and Hershal Walker....for what the 90s team became.


Where in the world did you get those ideas from?

Johnson was brought in after Landry was gone and that Walker trade was all Jimmy, he revolutionized the way teams drafted after his success with his early 92 and 93 teams with that Walker trade which was his idea. And you can look at that up.


Landry was fired so JJ could hire his Arkansas buddy Jimmy. Everything I said is well documented and easy to prove. Jimmy cut all the leadership Cowboys and managed to go 1-15. But there was still a big neucleus left over to build on (Landrys guys). It was the Vikings who broke their back wanting Hershal, and as far as I know it ws Jerry Jones made the deal....not Jimmy Johnson. Norv was brought in to handle Troy Aikman, who Jimmy said "was a loser in College and would always be one". Even you must know with your limited knowledge that Jimmy wanted Steve Walsh?

See the problem here is most you guys that post here got on board in 92 and worship at Johnsons feet. When in fact you have brainwashed yourselves to made up facts that you keep repeating year after year. Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you dig deep, you'll find out most of what is said, just isn't true.

Do you really not know that Tex Schram was still there after landry was fired. Schram announced at the owners meeting in 1989 that he would be leaving the Cowboys to help Landry set up the new European League. Gee Did you know that? There are a million facts you guys that worship Jimmy Johnson are not aware of. But us guys who have been with the Cowboys since the 60s really don't share your beliefs, thats why most of us don't post here anymore.


The biggest and best deceptions are those that mix a little bit of truth with just the right amount of fallacy. If you were around back then, then you know, that Aikman was drafted after Landry was fired. You will also know that Schramm had absolutely no voice in the organization and was fired a few weeks after the draft. You also know that the team didn't have a winning record until 1991 and that roster had a few Landry guys on offense and a couple Landry guys on defense.

Jimmy ran the draft and handled talent acquistion and evaluation. Hate it if you want, but that is how it was. Jerry wasn't in the draft room working the phones like he did post-Jimmy. Revisionist history is pretty easy if people are willing to blindly accept the fallacies as truth.


More of the Brainwash garbage...Schram was not fired, had JJ been dumb enough to do that the Owners would have lined up to get Schram. Thats why he announced he was leaving the NFL at the owners annual meeting:
Schramm is best known for transforming the Dallas Cowboys expansion franchise of the 1960s into "America's Team", but it was his innovation and vision that made him one of the most influential figures in the history of the NFL. Without the advancements he fueled, many of the game's features we take for granted today might have never been implemented.
After graduating from the University of Texas with a degree in journalism, and a four-year stint in the Air Force, Schramm got his start in the sports world as a sportswriter for the Austin American-Statesman. In 1947, Los Angeles Rams owner Dan Reeves offered him the Rams publicity director job. He was promoted to assistant to the president in 1952 and to general manager in 1956. Schramm became tired of the power struggle going on between Reeves and his partners and left the team in 1957 to join CBS Sports.

Hired in 1959 by Cowboys founder Clint Murchison, he groomed the Cowboys into one of the greatest dynasties in National Football League history. In 29 seasons in Dallas, Schrammís Cowboys put together 20-consecutive winning seasons, 18 playoff appearances, 13 division titles and five Super Bowl appearances. After Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys and fired Tom Landry, the only head coach in Cowboys history at the time, Schramm decided to resign his position with the club.

He finished his pro career as the President and Chief Executive Officer of the World League of American Football in 1989 and 1990.

Tex Schramm's contribution to pro football goes much deeper than the success he brought to the Cowboys.
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Hawksrealm


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
I don't think he's saying Jimmy gets no credit. Just not all of it.

Least thats what I'm saying.


Re-read his post. He's saying Jimmy deserves as much credit as Barry Switzer. IMO, that dude's post set the nadir for forum posting. In 8 years of posting here, I honestly thought I had seen everything. I now stand corrected. His post is the forum equivalent of pregnant teen heroin addiction but with less truth.


Do you ever hurt yourself thumping your chest all the time claiming what a big man you are?

There are many who deserve the credit for the 92 Cowboys, not just Johnson. You are one who gives Switzer zero credit, and thats a joke, he deserves as much credit as Johnson...he did win a SB after all.

Landry's guys...and Jimmy's in 92
Like I said a good neucleus
Bates
Gogan
Irvin
Jeffcoat
Martin-kelvin
Newton
Noonan
Norton
Saxon
Tuinei
Williams-Robert

You got on board with the Cowboys in the 90s whoopy do----There are guys who know LANDRY was the greatest coach the Cowboys have ever had. Johnson left and went to Miami and did nothing, so what did he prove?
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawksrealm wrote:
went to Miami and did nothing, so what did he prove?


That the Dolphins suck?
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Hawksrealm


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Hawksrealm wrote:
went to Miami and did nothing, so what did he prove?


That the Dolphins suck?


LOL Thxs for making my day

I listened to Jimmy just bombing on the Head coach for the Saints yesterday...I really don't think the Saints will go 1-15 in his first year. Haha
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawksrealm wrote:
Landry's guys...and Jimmy's in 92
Like I said a good neucleus
Bates
Gogan
Irvin
Jeffcoat
Martin-kelvin
Newton
Noonan
Norton
Saxon
Tuinei
Williams-Robert


When I read those names in the same post as "good nucleus," I laughed so hard I peed a little. Thanks. Landry left such a "good nucleus" the team went 1-15 in 1989.

If the Cowboys lose tonight... I can just re-read your post to cheer me up.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calvert28 wrote:

The attacks were to point out the ridiculous focus on marketing instead of winning that Jerry has put on this organization. Notice that Jerry has more big market commercials then the rest of the team put together. Besides the shampoo commercial with Romo, I can't think of another one with a Cowboys player in it, but I can name you numerous ones that have Jerry in it.

Reiterating a statement over and over again in a article is a dead give away that, thats the message that the writer wants you to focus on.


None of that changes the fact that the Cowboys are NOT a joke.

We have talent - we are not a joke.
We are the most profitable nfl Franchise - we are not a joke.
We are the most recognized nfl franchise - we are not a joke.

No one is trying to say Jerry is the Patron Saint of GMing. But you cannot call the Cowboys a Joke because you never got a chance to go to prom.
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Calvert28


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Hawkrealm fails to realize, surprising with his vast amount of knowledge is that Schram was asked by several teams, according to my great aunt. Most notably the Raiders and the Oilers. The reason my great aunt knew this was because Bum Phillips is a close friend to the family and told her so after Schram was fired that Adams was trying to get him to come to the Oilers, his only chief competition was supposed to be Davis. Both of whom almost harrassed Schram on a constant basis.

Schram though like Landry bled deep blue, and turned all offers down. And if your wondering how our family is so close to the Phillips family. It was because my great aunt I mentioned was supposed to marry him through an arranged marraige, to which she famously replied and rejected with, "I'm not going to marry a football coach who won't even make a proper living for his family. "

Fun fact Hawksrealm football coaches back then, especially high school coaches which he was at the time made a very poor salary.

So surprisingly enough, you don't know everything.
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Calvert28


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Calvert28 wrote:

The attacks were to point out the ridiculous focus on marketing instead of winning that Jerry has put on this organization. Notice that Jerry has more big market commercials then the rest of the team put together. Besides the shampoo commercial with Romo, I can't think of another one with a Cowboys player in it, but I can name you numerous ones that have Jerry in it.

Reiterating a statement over and over again in a article is a dead give away that, thats the message that the writer wants you to focus on.


None of that changes the fact that the Cowboys are NOT a joke.

We have talent - we are not a joke.
We are the most profitable nfl Franchise - we are not a joke.
We are the most recognized nfl franchise - we are not a joke.

No one is trying to say Jerry is the Patron Saint of GMing. But you cannot call the Cowboys a Joke because you never got a chance to go to prom.


When winning is not ranked above all those other examples you just listed. Yes it becomes a joke.

Not one coach has lasted more then 5 years without Jerry getting rid of him.
Showing that Jerry has little patience for when things aren't going his way, what is lasting is Jerry as our GM since he took over the team. Over 20 years, 15 of them which have been well below acceptability and he has never made the change. No rise in our prominence in anything regarding football, only when making making money and cameras rolling. What does that tell you other then Jerry puts himself above all others? That is a joke.
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