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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor Dillon wrote:
We've needed another WR going back as far as the jacoby jones pick and we haven't taken one in the first round yet
Wouldn't you qualify that as one of the problems of this team at present, ignoring an issue until it reaches critical mass? I mean, we ignored the need for a competent secondary for what seems like years, finally paid massive amounts of money to bring in Jonathan Joseph and Danieal Manning - and once we addressed a longstanding issue, didn't we go from the doldrums of 8-8 to division champs two years in a row?

Same concept here, only this one doesn't have to be handled via big named FAs - we can bring in a WR who can be a day 1 starter, and instead of being stuck in the 2nd round of the playoffs, we can hopefully get out of the "new 8-8" we find ourselves in.
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Marco79


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree ET, I think that it is just hard to feel all your needs at once. For example, pass rushing had always been a problem and we imfuse the team with Barwin, Reed, Watt, and Merciulus and then also sign Antonio Smith. While they were doing all that we had no need to upgrade WR, Walter was a #2 that was getting 800 yards a year and they also had a top TE. Then to prepare for an aging TE, they get Graham and Casey. And we did draft a WR with the 2nd pick last year, he just didn't make an impact alrhough he seemedthat he would have made a big impact in 2013 had he not get injured. I think what the Texans do is perfect. They fill up the makor holes in te early rounds and holes that they see later down line becoming more prevelent in the middle rounds. Now, if those middle round draftees don't workout then it becomes a big need, but you can't say they have ignored those needs. I don't think its fair to say that they don't feel a need until it reaches critical mass because that what a need is. It happenes to every team.
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Texansfan713


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor Dillon wrote:
We've needed another WR going back as far as the jacoby jones pick and we haven't taken one in the first round yet


I've been saying this for the longest since the 2010 season, and I got bashed for it. Kubiak needs to realize that Walter isnt nothing more than a 3rd WR. IDC If he is a good blocker or not.
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Wolf6151


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texansfan713 wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
We've needed another WR going back as far as the jacoby jones pick and we haven't taken one in the first round yet


I've been saying this for the longest since the 2010 season, and I got bashed for it. Kubiak needs to realize that Walter isnt nothing more than a 3rd WR. IDC If he is a good blocker or not.



It seems that Kubiak puts to much importance on a players ability to handle their secondary assignments more so than their primary assignment. Example: Kubiak likes WR's that can block well but seeming to ignore if they can run routes and catch the ball well. Remember a couple years ago when the biggest concern with O-linemen seemed to be that they could get to the second level quickly. He seemed to ignore the fact that these small quick O-linemen failed to block the first level of defenders before getting to the second level. He also liked a PR/KR who was really fast regardless of the fact that they had trouble catching the ball. This same line of thought can also be used when Kubiak was hiring his friends to be assistant coaches even though they weren't qualified for the position.
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Wolf6151


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
Eh, I'll try to mock it up a bit:

1. Terrance Williams (WR, Baylor): Honestly, either Williams, Hopkins, Hunter or Woods would make me estatic here. Their differences are nominal at best, they're all pretty much the same type of WR. Williams needs a bit of refining in regards to the NFL style of route running and playcalling, but has the most upside of the four. Woods is probably the most "pro ready" of them all, don't let last season at USC fool you too much. Hunter is a bigger big play threat, but he needs to eat a few sandwiches, because 196 at 6' 4" is just too skinny. Hopkins is the best all around guy of the bunch, but probably doesn't project to be much better than he already is. I wouldn't cringe TOO much at someone such as Ryan Swope here, but I'd place Swope slightly behind these four names at the spot.

2. David Amerson (CB/S, NC State) I honestly see him going higher now that he ran a very good 40 time, but if he's here...get him, ASAP. 17 INTs over the past two years, good for 288 yards and 3 TDs? That is a playmaker, just a monster for the ball. I don't care what level of competetion he's playing, averaging close to 9 INTs a year is unheard of. If Amerson is gone (could be, but who knows...lotta top end players at CB this year it seems) then look for Jesse Williams, NT out of Alabama. Not a penetrator in the vein of a Kawann Short, but a stout body who could start from day one.

3a. Kiko Alonzo (LB, Oregon) Guy reminds me a lot of James Laurinitis for the Rams; Not the most athletic guy when wearing shorts and some Under Armour, but has a knack for breaking down a play on the snap of the ball and gets himself in position to make a play on all downs. He'd be a great addition to the ILB unit; Put he and Cushing there at the ILB spot, find some vet depth and ILB is knocked out as a need.

3b. Gavin Escobar (TE, San Diego St) One guy who was hurt by his combine performance as well as the emergence of some combine stars at the position is Escobar, but his on field production can't be overlooked; 17 TDs over the past three years as a secondary option is a nice number, and a need for a team that just can't get it done in the RZ. Escobar should be in immediate contention for one of the two spots at TE (both starter and #2, because I think OD needs to earn his money from TC onwards...)

4. Brandon Williams (NT, Missouri Southern St) Honestly? Despite being from a small school, I doubt Williams makes it this far...but if he does, get him. At 6' 3" and 325, the guy is roughly the same size as Earl Mitchell...and while it is against D2 standard competetion, the man was a machine, with 52 career TFLs and 25.5 sacks in a four year career. The numbers come against sub standard players, but it points to him being a scary penetrator and someone who can close on the QB. In the 4th, with Mitchell slated to start, why not take a chance on him and see if he pans out?

5. John Simon (DE/OLB, Ohio State University) A small 4-3 DE in college, someone who didn't really stand out among DEs or OLBs in the combine, Simon has always been an effort player, someone who didn't have tools to be an elite player at the spot, but made up for it with some smarts and a fierce mindset. A productive player in college, yet his lack of any athletic gifts would get him to drop some, which could be well for us. Could be that 3/4 OLB that we have on the roster, ready to come in and make plays when needed.

6. Vinston Painter (OT, Virginia Tech) Late round flyer on an athletic OT with long arms and good movement. Could be worse.

7. Dave Kruger (NT, Utah) Big bodied DT who can play NT or DE in our setup. Not a world beater, but a hard nosed guy, the type the Texans like.



I'm sorry bro I skipped right over it, forgive me. Smile

1. Williams, I like Hopkins and Hunter better here. Hopkins has a pro body and is more pro ready while Hunter needs some work but has a much higher ceiling, and I would wait til our 2nd to target Woods. Williams very short arms and small hands compared to his height worries me a little. Hell no to Swope in the 1st, maybe in the 3rd as a slot WR, but we've got Martin for that role and I've got confidence in him that he'll improve next season.

2. Amerson, I like this player and pick and the role that he would fill on the Texans. I'd start him off working with the CB's on his coverage skills but wouldn't be surprised to see him moved to Safety. Whichever role he fills I'd like to see him covering the tall athletic new era TE's that kill us over the middle.

3. Alonso, love the pick. I've got him in my latest mock in the 3rd as well and think he'd be good quality depth at both ILB and OLB.

3b. Escobar, I really like this player and pick as well, I've been trying to find away to fit him into my mock also. Finally we get a tall athletic TE that's a redzone weapon.

4. Williams, I like the player and potential that he has and this is the round where he should be taken, due to his small school background, even though he's currently listed as a 2nd round prospect. If he's still available in the 4th I'd jump on this pick, I just doubt his availability. He's got great potential at NT but might take a year to evolve into the player we want. Rotating at NT with Mitchell would allow him that time to get acclimated to the NFL without just getting thrown into the deep end of the pool.

5. Simon, I'm not familiar with the player but he's awfully small for the position and currently listed as a 2nd-3rd round prospect. I'd be looking at Michael Buchanan or Cornelius Washington for OLB depth in the 5th.

6. Painter, I don't know anything about this guy, he's currently listed as an UDFA. I'll have to trust you that he's got athletic potential for the NFL.

7. Kruger, I don't know anything about this guy either, he's also currently listed as an UDFA, but I like his measurables for DE depth and the fact that you addressed the position. We don't know if Jamison will ever make it back, so depth here is important.


Overall, if our draft fell like this I'd be very happy, those first 4 players would really add some potential to the team.
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
Eh, I'll try to mock it up a bit:

1. Terrance Williams (WR, Baylor): Honestly, either Williams, Hopkins, Hunter or Woods would make me estatic here. Their differences are nominal at best, they're all pretty much the same type of WR. Williams needs a bit of refining in regards to the NFL style of route running and playcalling, but has the most upside of the four. Woods is probably the most "pro ready" of them all, don't let last season at USC fool you too much. Hunter is a bigger big play threat, but he needs to eat a few sandwiches, because 196 at 6' 4" is just too skinny. Hopkins is the best all around guy of the bunch, but probably doesn't project to be much better than he already is. I wouldn't cringe TOO much at someone such as Ryan Swope here, but I'd place Swope slightly behind these four names at the spot.

2. David Amerson (CB/S, NC State) I honestly see him going higher now that he ran a very good 40 time, but if he's here...get him, ASAP. 17 INTs over the past two years, good for 288 yards and 3 TDs? That is a playmaker, just a monster for the ball. I don't care what level of competetion he's playing, averaging close to 9 INTs a year is unheard of. If Amerson is gone (could be, but who knows...lotta top end players at CB this year it seems) then look for Jesse Williams, NT out of Alabama. Not a penetrator in the vein of a Kawann Short, but a stout body who could start from day one.

3a. Kiko Alonzo (LB, Oregon) Guy reminds me a lot of James Laurinitis for the Rams; Not the most athletic guy when wearing shorts and some Under Armour, but has a knack for breaking down a play on the snap of the ball and gets himself in position to make a play on all downs. He'd be a great addition to the ILB unit; Put he and Cushing there at the ILB spot, find some vet depth and ILB is knocked out as a need.

3b. Gavin Escobar (TE, San Diego St) One guy who was hurt by his combine performance as well as the emergence of some combine stars at the position is Escobar, but his on field production can't be overlooked; 17 TDs over the past three years as a secondary option is a nice number, and a need for a team that just can't get it done in the RZ. Escobar should be in immediate contention for one of the two spots at TE (both starter and #2, because I think OD needs to earn his money from TC onwards...)

4. Brandon Williams (NT, Missouri Southern St) Honestly? Despite being from a small school, I doubt Williams makes it this far...but if he does, get him. At 6' 3" and 325, the guy is roughly the same size as Earl Mitchell...and while it is against D2 standard competetion, the man was a machine, with 52 career TFLs and 25.5 sacks in a four year career. The numbers come against sub standard players, but it points to him being a scary penetrator and someone who can close on the QB. In the 4th, with Mitchell slated to start, why not take a chance on him and see if he pans out?

5. John Simon (DE/OLB, Ohio State University) A small 4-3 DE in college, someone who didn't really stand out among DEs or OLBs in the combine, Simon has always been an effort player, someone who didn't have tools to be an elite player at the spot, but made up for it with some smarts and a fierce mindset. A productive player in college, yet his lack of any athletic gifts would get him to drop some, which could be well for us. Could be that 3/4 OLB that we have on the roster, ready to come in and make plays when needed.

6. Vinston Painter (OT, Virginia Tech) Late round flyer on an athletic OT with long arms and good movement. Could be worse.

7. Dave Kruger (NT, Utah) Big bodied DT who can play NT or DE in our setup. Not a world beater, but a hard nosed guy, the type the Texans like.


1) I would rather have Deandre Hopkins or Keenan Allen with this pick, but just don't want the Texans to reach for a WR if another player rated higher at another position is there.

2). I would rather look at a more polished Safety like Eric Reid or the kid from Fresno State, but this could be a spot to draft a QB if someone drops that Kubiak really likes.

3) Alonso will never be a Texan as he has too many of the field issues plus he is injury prone. I would rather them look at Bostic from Florida.

3b). Since its a compensatory pick this will be a wild card pick depending on how the big board looks, but I wouldn't mind a DT or OLB if Barwin isn't resigned.

4). I would like them to look at a RB which its seems to be a weak class, and wouldn't mind them looking at TE as well if they can't sign Casey.

5-7 always seems to be a crap shoot, but Rick Smith usually takes risks on smaller school players who were highly productive in college.

I think we both want a WR,ILB, DT and safety to add to the team for next year.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/07/draft-buzz-builds-around-e-j-manuel/



Noooooooooo
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Wolf6151


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/07/draft-buzz-builds-around-e-j-manuel/



Noooooooooo


I'm guessing you really wanted him for the Texans in the 2nd round. Look on the bright side though if he goes high then he pushes another quality pick down lower to us.
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LORK 88


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolf6151 wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/07/draft-buzz-builds-around-e-j-manuel/



Noooooooooo


I'm guessing you really wanted him for the Texans in the 2nd round. Look on the bright side though if he goes high then he pushes another quality pick down lower to us.

It could also potentially give us a trading partner so we can move in to round 2 and scoop up extra picks. Right now I really want us to trade down to right around 35-40 range and take either Hopkins or Patton.
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Pastor Dillon


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
We've needed another WR going back as far as the jacoby jones pick and we haven't taken one in the first round yet
Wouldn't you qualify that as one of the problems of this team at present, ignoring an issue until it reaches critical mass? I mean, we ignored the need for a competent secondary for what seems like years, finally paid massive amounts of money to bring in Jonathan Joseph and Danieal Manning - and once we addressed a longstanding issue, didn't we go from the doldrums of 8-8 to division champs two years in a row?

Same concept here, only this one doesn't have to be handled via big named FAs - we can bring in a WR who can be a day 1 starter, and instead of being stuck in the 2nd round of the playoffs, we can hopefully get out of the "new 8-8" we find ourselves in.


im not saying i disagree with you, but i doubt we draft one in the 1st round
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Pastor Dillon


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what would everyone think about a guy like Denard Robinson (obviously not a top round pick)

he could return kicks, play some slot WR and be the #3 QB (allowing us to only carry 2 QBs with no worries
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LORK 88


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor Dillon wrote:
what would everyone think about a guy like Denard Robinson (obviously not a top round pick)

he could return kicks, play some slot WR and be the #3 QB (allowing us to only carry 2 QBs with no worries

Similar to Tavon Austin, I don't think he would have a lot of value with us. Keshawn Martin is already able to do 2 of those things and our offense isn't creative enough to get proper use out of him.
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Pastor Dillon


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive been looking at projections for Comp picks and most have us getting an extra 3rd and 6th

those would be huge for us. we would have the picks needed to trade up into the 2nd round or 1st round if we chose to. we could package our 2nd and 3rd and move into the top of the 2nd round and still have a 3rd

lots of options. either way, we need as many 3-5 rounders as possible simply to improve our special teams and our depth
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LORK 88


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor Dillon wrote:
ive been looking at projections for Comp picks and most have us getting an extra 3rd and 6th

those would be huge for us. we would have the picks needed to trade up into the 2nd round or 1st round if we chose to. we could package our 2nd and 3rd and move into the top of the 2nd round and still have a 3rd

lots of options. either way, we need as many 3-5 rounders as possible simply to improve our special teams and our depth

Can't trade comp picks.
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lumberjackchris


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LORK 88 wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
ive been looking at projections for Comp picks and most have us getting an extra 3rd and 6th

those would be huge for us. we would have the picks needed to trade up into the 2nd round or 1st round if we chose to. we could package our 2nd and 3rd and move into the top of the 2nd round and still have a 3rd

lots of options. either way, we need as many 3-5 rounders as possible simply to improve our special teams and our depth

Can't trade comp picks.


What he's suggesting is trade our original 2nd and 3rd for an early 2nd or maybe llate 1st. Which would still leave us with our 1st, a new acquired 1st/2nd and our comp 3rd
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