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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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Location: Battle Red State
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As much as I would love to trade up, you said it yourself on being objective. We've NEVER traded up in the 1st round. Also if we were to trade up it would have to be for a play maker. Now IMHO Te'o isn't a play maker but more of a Luke Kuechly lite. A guy who makes alot of tackles but doesn't make plays(yes I know he had a ton of picks this year but I think it was more or luck or a flash in the pan).


Sorry to fact check you again. In 2004 the Texans traded back into the 1st round to get Jason Babin which is certainly trading up in the 1st round. 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th for Titans 1st and 5th.

Regardless, just because Rick Smith hasn't done it before, doesn't mean he shouldn't have or won't this year. I could make a strong case justifying trading up 6 spots (would have cost one of our 3rd rounders) for Kendall Wright last year considering the gulf of talent and ability to provide instant impact between him and Posey.

2010 was the true missed opportunity in my book as it was pretty clear that there was little difference between the group of corners after Haden (KJ, McCourty, Wilson, Robinson, Cook). Chargers took our "first love" Ryan Matthews off the board by trading up to #12 from #28 (costing their 2nd rounder, Tim Dobbins, flip flopping 4th rounders and Dolphins kicking back their 6th to balance). Earl Thomas was clearly EXACTLY what had been missing from this team as a playmaking safety with cover skills of a corner. Using the Chargers trade as a guide, at most this would have cost us our 2nd rounder (Ben Tate) and might have required us getting a later pick back to balance. Even the KJ lovers out there have to admit that it would be worth giving up KJ and Tate for Thomas who was the key to transforming the Seahwks secondary and is already the best safety in the game in my book.

Furthermore, situations change and while for many years it made sense for the Texans to stockpile picks to fill all the holes and build for the long-term, the way I see it, the Texans have arrived at the place where we have a 2-4 year window to push through and get a few rings and to me that means adding a few difference makers (stars) that can provide impact NOW. I could care less about making sure we are grooming a replacement for Antonio Smith or Owen Daniels, I want a few players that either provide a major upgrade at a position like WR, NT, or ILB from day one or will specifically help us beat the teams we know we will need to go thru to the Super Bowl (inside pass rusher to disrupt Brady/Manning, speed in the secondary to cover Torrey Smith/AJ Green, dynamic playmaker on offense to exploit declining Ed Reed / Champ Bailey, etc). This doesn't automatically mean trading up, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out at this juncture, just because it hasn't been our m.o. to this point.

BTW - I apply this same theory to Free Agency. While the Texans typically don't go big here, going big is the only reason we have a top 10 defense as without Antonio, Jonathan Joseph, Daniel Manning we would be stuck still waiting on guys like Crick/Mitchell, Harris/Carmichael/McManus/McCain, and Keo/Nolan to develop which was the model that added up to the pre-2011 mediocrity because you'll never reach critical mass with a unit adding one or two pieces per year and counting on middle and late round picks to emerge (like Quin did and about 10 others didn't). The way I see it, this is the year to jump start the offense with an impact force like Joseph or Manning and personally, I don't care if it costs us not resigning middling players like Quin, Barwin, or Casey to get there. We can DRAFT a starting safety in the 2nd-3rd round, a backup OLB in the middle rounds, and a FB late.
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kenney


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My current plan if I am putting on my "Fantasy Texans GM" hat:

There are three teams who needs QBs and LTs picking in the top 10: Kansas City, Arizona, and Philadelphia, and all three would be MUCH better off taking an LT at the top of the draft and waiting for the QB talent to fall.

If we've got Glennon, Smith, Barkley, Nassib, Bray, Dysert, or Wilson on the board at pick 27 (not likely, but possible), we get on the horn with these three teams and tell them our starting point is pick 27 and, say, a 5th, for next year's 1st and this year's 2nd and 4th (although, if I'm really playing fantasy GM for Houston and Wilson is on the board, I take him and declare myself the draft-master).

That will probably give us two 2nds, two 3rds, two 4ths, one 5th, four 6ths, and a 7th. Personally, I don't see a ton of difference in the talent at the positions we need between pick 27 and the top of the 2nd -- call me naive, but there's not much of a difference between Kevin Minter and Alec Ogletree, Jon Bostic, Sean Porter (my totally non-homer dark horse ILB pick), Kiko Alonso, or Nico Johnson. We use the later pick in the 2nd to nab a WR like Markus Wheaton or Justin Hunter, a DT like Brandon Williams or Sharrif Floyd, or a DB like DJ Swearinger or TJ McDonald.
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kidnextdoor


Joined: 14 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
kidnextdoor wrote:

I could not agree with you more, here is my take on the 2013 draft

1. Teo is good but there is no way that Rick Smith or Kubiak wants the Media circus that comes along with him at least not in the first round

2. This is defiantly not the draft class to trade up in the first round, like you said there are going to be a lot of 2nd round QB's that will go in the 1st and some good DT's will fall to 27

3. Shaun Cody is not coming back next year we need a better NT, Kawann Short and Jesse Williams are that ones that I would think we draft unless for some reason John Jenkins or someone else better falls to 27

4. and we need and ILB i think we should trade up to get another 2nd round pick and go after Minter or Ogletree is he falls that far [ However I dont think that Ben Tate should be traded for anything this season]

Roughly speaking I would be happy with this Draft:

1st round [27] and 2nd [35-45]
DT Short, Williams or Jenkins
ILB Minter, Ogletree

2nd [57], 3rd [89]
WR, OT

3rd [95] comp pick RB


First off, welcome to Texans Nation!

The honeymoons over, i'm confused on to how you got the 2nd 2nd rounder? Above you said you'd trad our 3rd and 5th plus Tate for an high 2nd, but you still have us with both 3rd's?



Thank you for welcoming me Smile

I understand your point.... but it was not me who said that I would trade 3rd, 5th plus Tate for a high 2nd rounder, that was said by the person that I was responding to. And yeah I did say that " I could not agree with you more" .... what I meant by that was that I agreed with him that we should be drafting NT and ILB with our first 2 picks and trading up to get a second rounder

But I do understand that I did not express clearly how we could get a higher second round pick... so here is what I meant

1. Trade our 4th and/or 5th round pick to swap 2nd round picks with another team
2. Trade our 3rd, 4th and 5th for a 2nd round pick


1st round [27] and 2nd [35-45]
DT Short, Williams or Jenkins
ILB Minter, Ogletree

2nd [57], 3rd [89]
WR, OT
we get only one as the other should be traded to get an additional/better 2nd round pick, get a WR,OT depending on BPA with what ever pick is still available

3rd [95] comp pick RB

Hope i made it clear ...
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biggio7


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lumberjackchris wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
Quick random mock I did:

1st- Kevin Minter, ILB
2nd- Marcus Wheaton, WR
3rd- Ricky Wagner, OT
3rd(comp)- David Amerson, CB/S
4th- Brandon Williams, DT
5th- Kenjon Barner or Theo Reddick, RB
6th- Joe Kruger, DE
6th(comp)- Lonnie Pryor, FB
6th(comp)- Levine Toilolo or Philip Lutzenkirchen, TE
6th(comp)- Cooper Taylor, S
7th- Kenny Tate, LB


Pretty solid, but I don't know that Amerson falls that far. I think he's a late 2nd early 3rd prospect at the end of the day. But if he's there with our 3rd round comp pick, I'd jump all over that.


Yeah he probably won't. It was a best scenario kind of draft. Very Happy
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Grasspike


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggio7 wrote:
lumberjackchris wrote:
biggio7 wrote:
Quick random mock I did:

1st- Kevin Minter, ILB
2nd- Marcus Wheaton, WR
3rd- Ricky Wagner, OT
3rd(comp)- David Amerson, CB/S
4th- Brandon Williams, DT
5th- Kenjon Barner or Theo Reddick, RB
6th- Joe Kruger, DE
6th(comp)- Lonnie Pryor, FB
6th(comp)- Levine Toilolo or Philip Lutzenkirchen, TE
6th(comp)- Cooper Taylor, S
7th- Kenny Tate, LB


Pretty solid, but I don't know that Amerson falls that far. I think he's a late 2nd early 3rd prospect at the end of the day. But if he's there with our 3rd round comp pick, I'd jump all over that.


Yeah he probably won't. It was a best scenario kind of draft. Very Happy


He might. He has a very particular skillset and some questionable off field stuff. Nothing serious, but enough that he could fall.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
My current plan if I am putting on my "Fantasy Texans GM" hat:

There are three teams who needs QBs and LTs picking in the top 10: Kansas City, Arizona, and Philadelphia, and all three would be MUCH better off taking an LT at the top of the draft and waiting for the QB talent to fall.

If we've got Glennon, Smith, Barkley, Nassib, Bray, Dysert, or Wilson on the board at pick 27 (not likely, but possible), we get on the horn with these three teams and tell them our starting point is pick 27 and, say, a 5th, for next year's 1st and this year's 2nd and 4th (although, if I'm really playing fantasy GM for Houston and Wilson is on the board, I take him and declare myself the draft-master).

That will probably give us two 2nds, two 3rds, two 4ths, one 5th, four 6ths, and a 7th. Personally, I don't see a ton of difference in the talent at the positions we need between pick 27 and the top of the 2nd -- call me naive, but there's not much of a difference between Kevin Minter and Alec Ogletree, Jon Bostic, Sean Porter (my totally non-homer dark horse ILB pick), Kiko Alonso, or Nico Johnson. We use the later pick in the 2nd to nab a WR like Markus Wheaton or Justin Hunter, a DT like Brandon Williams or Sharrif Floyd, or a DB like DJ Swearinger or TJ McDonald.


I could be on board with this except I'm not a big fan of trading current picks for future year picks, especially with the cap pressure likely relieved in 2014. I would add that the Texans might want to quietly send some signals out that they might consider a QB in the first to get those teams choosing to wait until the top of the 2nd further reason to trade up to 27. It's a delicate balance as they don't want to fan the flames of ill informed Texan fans who think it makes sense to ditch a Pro Bowl QB because the Patriots beat us twice in Foxboro.
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kenney


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
kenney wrote:
My current plan if I am putting on my "Fantasy Texans GM" hat:

There are three teams who needs QBs and LTs picking in the top 10: Kansas City, Arizona, and Philadelphia, and all three would be MUCH better off taking an LT at the top of the draft and waiting for the QB talent to fall.

If we've got Glennon, Smith, Barkley, Nassib, Bray, Dysert, or Wilson on the board at pick 27 (not likely, but possible), we get on the horn with these three teams and tell them our starting point is pick 27 and, say, a 5th, for next year's 1st and this year's 2nd and 4th (although, if I'm really playing fantasy GM for Houston and Wilson is on the board, I take him and declare myself the draft-master).

That will probably give us two 2nds, two 3rds, two 4ths, one 5th, four 6ths, and a 7th. Personally, I don't see a ton of difference in the talent at the positions we need between pick 27 and the top of the 2nd -- call me naive, but there's not much of a difference between Kevin Minter and Alec Ogletree, Jon Bostic, Sean Porter (my totally non-homer dark horse ILB pick), Kiko Alonso, or Nico Johnson. We use the later pick in the 2nd to nab a WR like Markus Wheaton or Justin Hunter, a DT like Brandon Williams or Sharrif Floyd, or a DB like DJ Swearinger or TJ McDonald.


I could be on board with this except I'm not a big fan of trading current picks for future year picks, especially with the cap pressure likely relieved in 2014. I would add that the Texans might want to quietly send some signals out that they might consider a QB in the first to get those teams choosing to wait until the top of the 2nd further reason to trade up to 27. It's a delicate balance as they don't want to fan the flames of ill informed Texan fans who think it makes sense to ditch a Pro Bowl QB because the Patriots beat us twice in Foxboro.


I should say that I didn't include my impetus behind the trade for next year's first, which is that, either by virtue of having a terrible team's first pick OR by virtue of having two firsts as trade ammunition, the Texans could take a QB to groom behind Schaub in 14 and 15 so that there is immediate continuity at the end of his contract.

Bridgewater, Boyd, or Mariota are three guys who, with good seasons, project well into this offense, with Bridgewater obviously being the crown jewel of the crop.

Just my two cents.
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canyon1


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please tell me someone else is noticing Ziggy Ansah from BYU ... The kid fly's around and makes plays. Watching him at the senior bowl with is effort makes me want the guy. He reminds me of Tuck in some aspects of the game. If we took him with our first that could make Antonio expendable an save us some cash to you elsewhere. Thoughts?
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jch1911


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canyon1 wrote:
Please tell me someone else is noticing Ziggy Ansah from BYU ... The kid fly's around and makes plays. Watching him at the senior bowl with is effort makes me want the guy. He reminds me of Tuck in some aspects of the game. If we took him with our first that could make Antonio expendable an save us some cash to you elsewhere. Thoughts?


I think he looked good in an unstructured game like the Senior Bowl, but the reality was he was just flying around the field.

If an offensive coach game plans for him, I think that will limit his effectiveness in the NFL. Meaning I think - right now- he would just continually run himself out of plays / be out of position with any type of misdirection (like most teams try to do).

Just my 2 cents.
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PAtexansFAN99


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyler Bray is the best QB in the draft and I think he'll be the first one chosen. I'd like for us to take him if he's there at 27.
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canyon1


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So has anyone noticed that our team is throwing up smoke screens ... Our GM said that we need to get more speed at WR and our coaching staff said that we will be looking for trenches and front seven help. So does anyone think that both are smoke screens for something else ???
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treece300e


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

canyon1 wrote:
So has anyone noticed that our team is throwing up smoke screens ... Our GM said that we need to get more speed at WR and our coaching staff said that we will be looking for trenches and front seven help. So does anyone think that both are smoke screens for something else ???


It's possibly a smoke screen, but we do have more than one pick in the draft Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
Tyler Bray is the best QB in the draft and I think he'll be the first one chosen. I'd like for us to take him if he's there at 27.


Bray has a million dollar arm, and a ten cent head. Has all the tools, but will be a statue in the NFL. Will be a 3rd day pick. If we took him at 27 I would jump off reliant stadium!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
Tyler Bray is the best QB in the draft and I think he'll be the first one chosen. I'd like for us to take him if he's there at 27.


Bray has a million dollar arm, and a ten cent head. Has all the tools, but will be a statue in the NFL. Will be a 3rd day pick. If we took him at 27 I would jump off reliant stadium!


Bingo. EVERYTHING about this pick screams Ryan Leaf. Bray has the talent to be a top 10 QB, but a mind that will have him out of the league in four years at best.
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kenney


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take this with a whole shaker of salt, but according to 790's interview with a Bleacher Report guy who was at the Senior Bowl, rumor around Mobile believed the Texans plan to move Reed inside full-time.

I'm willing to bet this draft is going to be heavy offense if this is true.

EDIT: The "guy" is Matt Miller, formerly of NFL Draft Scout.
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