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ZBS and Oline help

 
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candyman


Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 418
Location: Mexico City
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: ZBS and Oline help Reply with quote

You might recall the Denver Broncos introduced the world to the zone-blocking concept during the early 1990’s. They turned a lot of heads with their ability to seemingly take guys off the street and turn them into 1,300-yard rushers. The same thing has happened with Green Bay, Houston and Washington the last couple of years, turning little-known guys like Ryan Grant, Arian Foster, Alfred Morris and Steve Slaton into stars. When Joe Philbin became the Dolphins coach, the ZBS arrived with him.

The last two years have shown us that the Dolphins are making it a priority to try and follow those teams’ footsteps. They chose not to pay Reggie Bush, believing the ZBS could turn Lamar Miller into a more than serviceable starter. They drafted Jonathan Martin, let Jake Long go, and signed Lance Louis.

Most of us in the forum agree that OL help should be the first priority in the draft. As of right now the OL starters appear to be Martin/Incognito/Pouncey/Louis/Garner. Much has been said about Jonathan Martin, but even if the team believes that he is the solution at LT, they still need a lot of help at RT and someone to compete with Louis and eventually replace Incognito.

My best case scenario (very unlikely) would be, trading up to grab either Fisher or Joeckel, making Martin the RT, and then picking someone like Alvin Bailey in the 3rd round to compete with Louis.

I don’t think the situation above is happening and I believe the Dolphins are going to draft offensive lineman, so I wanted to investigate the Oline prospects extensively and compile a list of the prospects who fit the ZBS, and who Miami could be targeting.

OT
1st round
Eric Fisher, 6'7, 306, Central Michigan
Luke Joeckel, 6'6, 306, Texas A&M
Lane Johnson, 6'6, 303, Oklahoma (Met with Miami in the combine)
OT
2nd round
Terron Armstead, 6'5, 306, Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Kyle Long, 6'6, 313, Oregon
3rd round
Xavier Nixon, 6'6, 321, Florida
Jordan Mills, 6'6, 310, Louisiana Tech (Only as a RT)
Brennan Williams, 6'6, 318, North Carolina
4th round
Reid Fragel, 6'8, 308, Ohio State
5th round
Ricky Wagner, 6'6, 308, Wisconsin
6th-7th rounds
Braden Brown, 6'6, 310, Kansas
Vinston Painter, 6'4, 306, Virginia Tech
Jeff Nady, 6'6, 303, Nevada


OG
1st round
Jonathan Cooper, 6'2, 311, North Carolina (Miami’s OL coach ran pro day workouts)
2nd round
Justin Pugh, 6'5, 307, Syracuse
3rd round
Barret Jones, 6'5, 302, Alabama
Alvin Bailey, 6'3, 312, Arkansas
David Quessenberry, 6'5, 302, San Jose St.
Brian Winters, 6'4, 320, Kent St.
5th round
J.C Tretter, 6'4, 307, Cornell
Earl Watford, 6'4, 300, James Madison
Omoregie Uzzi, 6'3, 305, Georgia Tech
6th-7th rounds
Chris Hubbard, 6'4, 290, UAB (Miami was one of three teams that attended his pro day)
Matt Summers-Gavin, 6'4, 310, Cal
Jeff Baca, 6'3, 302, UCLA
Chris Barker, 6'3, 305, Nevada
Travis Bond, 6'6, 329, North Carolina (Miami’s OL coach ran pro day workouts)

I need your help to try and improve the list. Which of the above would you prefer to draft? Who is missing from the list? Who doesn’t fit? What do you think that Miami’s draft plans are going to be for the OL?


Last edited by candyman on Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:26 pm; edited 4 times in total
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1892
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good list sir but you cant forget one of my favorites G/C Brian Schwenke from Cal ..
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candyman


Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 418
Location: Mexico City
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan4life wrote:
Good list sir but you cant forget one of my favorites G/C Brian Schwenke from Cal ..


I had him in the C list, but forgot to move him to G, when I decided I would only post OT and OG.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1892
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a good list as for who I would like to draft or would be happy if they did draft would be as follows

Cooper
Pugh
Schwenke
Quessenberry
K Long
Uzzi (late rounds)
Johnson
Fischer
Joekel

I think Menelik Watson can be added and play zone scheme and reid fragel from Ohio St is a zone tackle on day 3
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Russ57


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 663
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should keep in mind this isn't the exact science we wish it was. This is why they are called prospects. In my list I won't make any regard as to suitability for a ZBS. Third tier doesn't always mean a better prospect than fourth tier. It could simply mean more experienced. This is for OT's only.

First tier
1. Eric Fisher, Central Michigan, 6’7Ό” – 306 lb.
2. Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M, 6’6″ – 306 lb.
3. Lane Johnson, Oklahoma, 6’6″ – 303 lb.

Second tier
4. D.J. Fluker, Alabama, 6’4⅝” – 339 lb.
5. Terron Armstead, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, 6’4Ύ” – 306 lb.
6. Dallas Thomas, Tennessee, 6’5″ – 306 lb.

Third tier
7. Menelik Watson, Florida State, 6’5⅛” – 310 lb.
8. Brennan Williams, North Carolina, 6'6″ – 318 lb.
9. Oday Aboushi, Virginia, 6’5Ό” – 308 lb.
10. Chris Faulk, LSU, 6’5″ – 331 lb.
11. Jordan Mills, Louisiana Tech, 6’5″ – 316 lb.

Fourth tier
12. Xavier Nixon, Florida, 6’5½” – 321 lb.
13. Reid Fragel, Ohio State, 6’7⅝” – 308 lb.

Fifth tier
14. David Quessenberry, San Jose State, 6’4⅞” – 302 lb.
15. David Bakhtiari, Colorado, 6’4Ό” – 299 lb.
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orangetiktac


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 378
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quessinberry will be an excellent guard, and I believe he'll be there in the 4th round when we have a selection. I'd take him in the 3rd. I also love Schwenke.
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DavisIsland


Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 233
Location: Miami
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan4life wrote:
I think Menelik Watson can be added and play zone scheme and reid fragel from Ohio St is a zone tackle on day 3


The more I watch tape of Fragel, the more I like him. He moves pretty well for his size. He needs to add more bulk and get stronger, but he has the size to easily do it.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6631
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post & a list we (Mia) fans might want to get familiar with.

I say that knowing my proposal to trade up for Fischer was less than popular so ... Crying or Very sad
But I whole heartedly agree with putting the emphasis on Oline vs RBs.
Where I vehemently dissagree with some here is the notion that you can build a quality ZB Oline with a bunch of 3rd & 4th rnd draft pks.
Those guys dont just fall off trees like some behemoth trading swats with a DT over a 3 -5 yd radius moving forward in 1st gear.

sug
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Last edited by SUG on Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3724
Location: Don Shula's front porch
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
Excellent post & a list we (Mia) fans might want to get familiar with.

I say that knowing my proposal to trade up for Fischer was less than popular so ... Crying or Very sad
But I whole geartedly agree with putting the emphasis on Oline vs RBs.
Where I vehemently dissagree with some here is the notion that you can build a quality ZB Oline with a bunch of 3rd & 4th rnd draft pks.
Those guys dont just fall off trees like some behemoth trading swats with a DT over a 3 -5 yd radius moving forward in 1st gear.

sug


Its not that it is not popular....I just think it is not feasible....Fisher will most likely not make it past the 5th pick and could go number 1 overall (should) the Dolphins would most likely need to give up a 2nd and possibly a 1st next year to move up that far....
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6631
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
SUG wrote:
Excellent post & a list we (Mia) fans might want to get familiar with.

I say that knowing my proposal to trade up for Fischer was less than popular so ... Crying or Very sad
But I whole geartedly agree with putting the emphasis on Oline vs RBs.
Where I vehemently dissagree with some here is the notion that you can build a quality ZB Oline with a bunch of 3rd & 4th rnd draft pks.
Those guys dont just fall off trees like some behemoth trading swats with a DT over a 3 -5 yd radius moving forward in 1st gear.

sug


Its not that it is not popular....I just think it is not feasible....Fisher will most likely not make it past the 5th pick and could go number 1 overall (should) the Dolphins would most likely need to give up a 2nd and possibly a 1st next year to move up that far....


Tell ya what, the talk on the other side of the bridge from me (Oakland) is that they have hemorrhaged
players & could very well trade down at #3.

There might be a possibility that Cle trades down at #6 with a new HC & such.

just sayin, if Fischer is there at #6 & the ph rings do you give up pks 2B & 3B ...?

curious
sug
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ViolentMonk71


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 3724
Location: Don Shula's front porch
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
ViolentMonk71 wrote:
SUG wrote:
Excellent post & a list we (Mia) fans might want to get familiar with.

I say that knowing my proposal to trade up for Fischer was less than popular so ... Crying or Very sad
But I whole geartedly agree with putting the emphasis on Oline vs RBs.
Where I vehemently dissagree with some here is the notion that you can build a quality ZB Oline with a bunch of 3rd & 4th rnd draft pks.
Those guys dont just fall off trees like some behemoth trading swats with a DT over a 3 -5 yd radius moving forward in 1st gear.

sug


Its not that it is not popular....I just think it is not feasible....Fisher will most likely not make it past the 5th pick and could go number 1 overall (should) the Dolphins would most likely need to give up a 2nd and possibly a 1st next year to move up that far....


Tell ya what, the talk on the other side of the bridge from me (Oakland) is that they have hemorrhaged
players & could very well trade down at #3.

There might be a possibility that Cle trades down at #6 with a new HC & such.

just sayin, if Fischer is there at #6 & the ph rings do you give up pks 2B & 3B ...?

curious
sug


I think the second is all that would be needed to trade up to 6 and if Fisher is there.....I couldn't make that call fast enough...
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bpastermack


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 12936
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert in O-lineman form and all, but I have watched a full game of each of the top 3 OT prospects against their toughest competition, as well as the 2 seniors in the senior bowl, and these are my thoughts...

1. None of them are worthy of a top 5 pick. They all have things to work on and none of them are as good as Long was before all the injuries. Not one of them!

2. Of the three my favorite for our team is.... Lane Johnson. In their game against Florida, I think I saw one negative play. He is not a power scheme blocker so he isn't as versatile as the other two, but he is VERY good blocking the run in a zone and I even saw him run down a DB after an interception. I also saw him 30 yards downfield on a screen play running almost stride for stride with the RB.

Joeckel - Solid all around LT prospect. Does everything really well. Doesn't do anything elite, but if he stays healthy, then he will give you an above average starting LT for years to come.

Fisher - Has the potential to be better than Joeckel, but he needs to get more core strength in the passing game. He is probably the strongest mauler in the run game of the group, but maybe it's technique? He is susceptible to the Bull rush, and it wasn't just the senior bowl game that I saw it. It gets driven back into the pocket pretty consistently in the game I saw. Not so much that it gave up a sack, but it did give up some hurries, and gave the QB less space to work with.

Johnson - More potential than any of these guys in our scheme. He is susceptible to the bull rush at times if he is set up a few times, but he recovers well, and if he gets a stronger punch, then that won't be a problem. He reaches ocasionally and gets bad footwork. But his speed helps him recover. Against elite speed rushers in the NFL he will need to get better footwork, but given he has only been an OT for 2 years of his life, I think he has tons of room to grow if he has the right attitude.

He had no problem blocking the Florida speed rushers or Bartavious Mingo in LSU though. He is the only OT in this class that I see Hall of Fame potential in. But I also see his floor being the lowest. If he never gets better, then he will be a below average LT in the NFL, and only is his best in a ZBS, on a team that prefers to pass in order to set up the run.
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