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Time for Lebeau to go.....
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3173
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
Why is this so hard to understand? The whole bases of your argument against the significance of the #1 ranking is who we played. This HAS TO assume that the ranking would be different if we played someone else. Why else would you say it? This is hypothetical.


Because I dont understand nonsense. THATS why.

Bottom line is...I presented facts...who we ACTUALLY played, and talked about why their ranking looked so great.

Thats NOT hypothtical. Thats a VALID OPINION based on FACTS.


Chieferific wrote:
Where? Again. Where?


When you started bringing up things that didnt happen (QBs we never played) and talking about how they COULDVE been had we played different teams.

I only raised facts based on who we played, and the part about our weaknesses being masked by playing crappy QBs all year was an opinion based on facts. Nothing hypothetical about it.

Chieferific wrote:
Does it not stress the point that QBs aren't having they're best games against the Steelers.


Even if it does, no one ever even began to stress that QBs WERE having theyre best games against us.

So how exactly is this point relevant?

Chieferific wrote:
If it is my argument that the Steeler D does NOT struggle anymore against the top QBs than any other team, and that even below average QBs have good games against top defenses does it not fit? In this case (Sanchez), we played him better (at least at the time of the post). Is this not relevant?


Except we have struggled more over the past few years against top QBs (thats not saying QBs had their best games against us, either) than many other teams....especially in key game situations, which you conveniently ignored. You do realize that stats arent everything, right?

And the mere fact that you were trying to cherry pick an instance from one half of Sanchez vs the Texans, compare it to the Steelers game this year and apply it to the argument of how our pass defense was last year is hilarious in and of itself.

Chieferific wrote:
You need to take your own advice. Nor did I. I made an assumption that IF the Steelers were ranked 32 my guess is you'd complain about that. Rightfully so. The point being made is that you can't say the #1 ranking doesn't matter or mean anything but the 32nd ranking does. Does this make sense? Again, based on the assumption you would care if they were #32. I thought I had made that clear. Perhaps not.


Once again...THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL.

You keep claiming you dont use them and ask me to point out where you did....here is one for you in advance.

And I never once claimed the number 1 overall rank didnt matter. Id ask you to point out where I did but we both know you cant.

I said that we werent as good as the number 1 overall STATISTICAL ranking says we were, and that we were aided by the fact that we played crap QBs all year.

Just like back in 2008 when Ben didnt have good stats, but I said he played better than his stats implied.

If we had the 32nd ranked defense, and looked better, I would say the same thing. If we had the 32nd ranked defense and looked that bad...yes, Id be mad.

If we had the 1st ranked defense and actually looked like it...I would be thrilled. Thats my point though,...we didnt look like the best pass defense or anywhere close to it. And even when we did, it was when we were playing the worst QBsd in the league.

They didnt look or play like a top defense most of last year....and Im sure most knowledgable and unbias Steeler fans would agree with that.


Chieferific wrote:
Where? (in regards to cherry picking)


The Sanchez example from THIS year.

How exactly does that apply to last year, again?

Chieferific wrote:
I'm confused. It seems like you're arguing in favor of my overall point here.


So I make a point against yours and you claim it was in favor of yours without even pointing out how?

Desperation at its finest.

Chieferific wrote:
And here lies the problem. You do not have the ability to see it any other way.


LMAO....youre just crying because you want me to admit Im wrong yet you havent even begun to prove how.

Sorry guy...not gonna happen.

And quick question....WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU EVEN CLAIMING I AM WRONG ABOUT?

My assessment of why we were ranked number 1? Thats an opinion....but its a valid one based of credible facts and history that many share. How exactly is that wrong?

Please clarify.

My god your opinions make you blind. I mean they really affect your reading comprehension. A summary because this is getting boring....

1: Again, who we played is a fact (duh). Using that information to lead you to another conclusion IS NOT. If you claim the ranking is only good because of the crap QBs we played then IT HAS to mean it would be different if we played someone different. IT HAS TO. This is hypothetical. Look it up. If you can't understand this, stop reading the rest cause will be pointless.

2. I didn't bring up QBs we never played. It was a response to YOUR bringing them up in your point. I never said "Well if we played ...." YOU are the one who made that assumption (see above).

3. You admit that QBS aren't having they're best games which only strengthens my argument that LeBeau's Defense isn't outdated and he doesn't need to go. In other words...the sky isn't falling.

4. I "cherry picked" Sanchez in an effort to stress my point that the Steelers play all QBs either well or above average. It was also a point that you can't assume what would happen (this relates to #1 on the list). Even crappy QBs (your opinion) can have good games on Defenses you feel our better than the Steelers.

5. There is a difference between an assumption and being hypothetical. Again, look it up. Saying you'd be unhappy with a 32nd ranked Defense is an assumption. Not being Hypothetical. You diluted the importance of the #1 ranking. I'm not gonna look for it. If you can't remember saying it. You look it up.

6. You point out that Sanchez's game doesn't prove which Defense is better. I agree. This was my point. You missed that. Since you cannot connect the dots I'll do it for you.....If your point on the #1 Defense is based on who we didn't play and my point is you can't do that because you don't know what would happen. Sometimes Crappy QBs play great and sometimes Great QBs play crappy. This is MY point. Not yours.

7. No, I do not expect you to admit you're wrong. I know that ain't happening.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9812
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:


1: Again, who we played is a fact (duh). Using that information to lead you to another conclusion IS NOT. If you claim the ranking is only good because of the crap QBs we played then IT HAS to mean it would be different if we played someone different. IT HAS TO. This is hypothetical. Look it up. If you can't understand this, stop reading the rest cause will be pointless.


are you arguing this point for a reason?

we played a woefully inept schedule of QBs last season. Do you think our "#1 ranking" would've persisted if we didn't get to play 11 QBs who were rookies, or aren't good enough to start?


Chieferific wrote:

4. the Steelers play all QBs either well or above average.


no, we don't

Chieferific wrote:

It was also a point that you can't assume what would happen (this relates to #1 on the list). Even crappy QBs (your opinion) can have good games on Defenses you feel our better than the Steelers.


we were 1-4 agaiinst non-rookie QBs who still have starting jobs this season.

11 of our 12 wins came against rookies, or QBs who AREN'T starting this season.

Chieferific wrote:

5. There is a difference between an assumption and being hypothetical.


1-4 isn't an assumption, nor is it hypothetical. It's a fact.

Chieferific wrote:

my point is you can't do that because you don't know what would happen.


we saw what would happen.

1-4.

Chieferific wrote:

7. No, I do not expect you to admit you're wrong. I know that ain't happening.


he's not wrong.

you are.

why would he admit anything?
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49500
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
My god your opinions make you blind. I mean they really affect your reading comprehension. A summary because this is getting boring....


All I can do is laugh at this.

Your posts reek of desperation.


Chieferific wrote:
1: Again, who we played is a fact (duh). Using that information to lead you to another conclusion IS NOT. If you claim the ranking is only good because of the crap QBs we played then IT HAS to mean it would be different if we played someone different. IT HAS TO. This is hypothetical. Look it up. If you can't understand this, stop reading the rest cause will be pointless.


Just because you keep spewing off nonsense and you happen to believe your own nonsense doesnt mean I dont understand.

Who we played is a fact....yes. Glad you finally got that. Thats what I brought up.

No...its not hypothetical, because I never said anything about how we WOULD do against better QBs. I stated that playing crappy QBs masked our weaknesses. An opinion...yes....but dont tell me to "look it up" when youve proven you dont even really know what the word means or how to use it.

Hypotheticals are based on "WHAT IF". YOU, and you alone are the one who brought the "what if" into it. My statement was based purely on what actually happened. You are the one who started talking about QBs we never played, and then started making blind assumptions about my point, which you clearly either didnt understand or didnt have a valid point to address it, so you just made up an argument out of thin air.



Chieferific wrote:
2. I didn't bring up QBs we never played. It was a response to YOUR bringing them up in your point. I never said "Well if we played ...." YOU are the one who made that assumption (see above).


Actually, you did.

Quote:
How do we know what they would have done against QBs we didn't face?


Pretty sad I know what you said more than you do.

You can backpedal and make stuff up all you want, but thats the only time anyone mentioned QBs we never played.

My comment was based strictly on the QBs we did play....whether you see that or not.


Chieferific wrote:
3. You admit that QBS aren't having they're best games which only strengthens my argument that LeBeau's Defense isn't outdated and he doesn't need to go. In other words...the sky isn't falling.


More desperation on your part.

Youre AGAIN trying to make points against points I never actually made.

Just because QBs arent having their BEST days doesnt mean they arent have good days.

And for the umpteenth time...my points against LeBeau's scheme being outdated cant be disputed by simply pointing out statistical performances or rankings. My comments against LeBeau have been lack of adjustments and poor situational playcalling.

But no...you keep pointing at the ESPN rankings and acting like its the be all, end all. As for me...Ill actually watch the games and make my own assessment.

And I never claimed the sky was falling either. Nice drama, though.


Chieferific wrote:
4. I "cherry picked" Sanchez in an effort to stress my point that the Steelers play all QBs either well or above average. It was also a point that you can't assume what would happen (this relates to #1 on the list). Even crappy QBs (your opinion) can have good games on Defenses you feel our better than the Steelers.


And the point you are attempting to stress is wrong anyway.

And once again....just looking right at a stat sheet doesnt really mean anything. Thats what amateurs do. They look simply at the face of a stat sheet and say "oh hey...they were damn good" but dont take in game situations or other variables....such as playing poor teams or games where we gave up huge, late game drives.

My points against LeBeau arent based on statistics, so continuing to point out our number 1 ranking on paper last year proves nothing.

Chieferific wrote:
5. There is a difference between an assumption and being hypothetical. Again, look it up. Saying you'd be unhappy with a 32nd ranked Defense is an assumption. Not being Hypothetical. You diluted the importance of the #1 ranking. I'm not gonna look for it. If you can't remember saying it. You look it up.


You keep saying look it up because you cant prove anything. The only thing you HAVE successfully proven is that you dont have a clue what you are talking about and that youll make stuff up in a lame effort to make a point.

I didnt ONCE dilute the importance of the number 1 ranking ITSELF. Thats why you cant show it....because I never said it.

I said WE werent as good as that top ranking implied.

And how is saying that Id be unhappy with the worst defense in the league an "assumption"? No...I KNOW FOR A FACT Id be mad if we ACTUALLY had the worst defense in the league. And if we ACTUALLY had the best defense last year, Id be happy too. We were the number 1 overall defense in 2008. That year it was more than deserved....a historically good defense. In 2011....we were great ON PAPER. The vast majority of people, Steeler fan or not....could plainly see that our defense was not that good last year.

And again, if you dont think playing garbage QBs all year didnt help how we looked "on paper"...you are the one who is delusional here.

Chieferific wrote:
6. You point out that Sanchez's game doesn't prove which Defense is better. I agree. This was my point. You missed that. Since you cannot connect the dots I'll do it for you.....If your point on the #1 Defense is based on who we didn't play and my point is you can't do that because you don't know what would happen. Sometimes Crappy QBs play great and sometimes Great QBs play crappy. This is MY point. Not yours.


This is a perfect example of when someone tries to be a smart a$$ but just completely humiliates themselves.

I know what point you were trying to make.....I never once disputed any of that. My point is you clearly cherry picked one QB and how they played against both teams...and you were CLEARLY just looking straight at the stat sheet and not considering all the other factors. None of that proves anything against the points I made.

And no...Im not talking about the points you CLAIMED I made that I never did. Im talking about points I actually DID make, Mr. "I deal with Facts, but hardly ever use them"


Chieferific wrote:
7. No, I do not expect you to admit you're wrong. I know that ain't happening.



Again...what am I wrong about? What have you proven me wrong on?

You just keep SAYING Im wrong,.

If that makes you feel better, great.

Doesnt make it so.

Anyway, this isnt going anywhere. Keep chasing your tail and claiming Im wrong without proving a damn thing. Ive said my peace.
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Last edited by FourThreeMafia on Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49500
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
he's not wrong.

you are.

why would he admit anything?


This about sums it up.


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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3173
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="FourThreeMafia"]
Chieferific wrote:
1: Again, who we played is a fact (duh). Using that information to lead you to another conclusion IS NOT. If you claim the ranking is only good because of the crap QBs we played then IT HAS to mean it would be different if we played someone different. IT HAS TO. This is hypothetical. Look it up. If you can't understand this, stop reading the rest cause will be pointless.


Just because you keep spewing off nonsense and you happen to believe your own nonsense doesnt mean I dont understand.

Who we played is a fact....yes. Glad you finally got that. Thats what I brought up.

No...its not hypothetical, because I never said anything about how we WOULD do against better QBs. I stated that playing crappy QBs masked our weaknesses. An opinion...yes....but dont tell me to "look it up" when youve proven you dont even really know what the word means or how to use it.

Hypotheticals are based on "WHAT IF". YOU, and you alone are the one who brought the "what if" into it. My statement was based purely on what actually happened. You are the one who started talking about QBs we never played, and then started making blind assumptions about my point, which you clearly either didnt understand or didnt have a valid point to address it, so you just made up an argument out of thin air.



Chieferific wrote:
2. I didn't bring up QBs we never played. It was a response to YOUR bringing them up in your point. I never said "Well if we played ...." YOU are the one who made that assumption (see above).


Actually, you did.

[img]How do we know what they would have done against QBs we didn't face?[/img]Pretty sad I know what you said more than you do.

You can backpedal and make stuff up all you want, but thats the only time anyone mentioned QBs we never played.

My comment was based strictly on the QBs we did play....whether you see that or not.


Chieferific wrote:
3. You admit that QBS aren't having they're best games which only strengthens my argument that LeBeau's Defense isn't outdated and he doesn't need to go. In other words...the sky isn't falling.


More desperation on your part.

Youre AGAIN trying to make points against points I never actually made.

Just because QBs arent having their BEST days doesnt mean they arent have good days.

And for the umpteenth time...my points against LeBeau's scheme being outdated cant be disputed by simply pointing out statistical performances or rankings. My comments against LeBeau have been lack of adjustments and poor situational playcalling.

But no...you keep pointing at the ESPN rankings and acting like its the be all, end all. As for me...Ill actually watch the games and make my own assessment.

And I never claimed the sky was falling either. Nice drama, though.


[quote="Chieferific"]4. I "cherry picked" Sanchez in an effort to stress my point that the Steelers play all QBs either well or above average. It was also a point that you can't assume what would happen (this relates to #1 on the list). Even crappy QBs (your opinion) can have good games on Defenses you feel our better than the Steelers.
Chieferific wrote:
ked.

And the point you are attempting to stress is wrong anyway.

And once again....just looking right at a stat sheet doesnt really mean anything. Thats what amateurs do. They look simply at the face of a stat sheet and say "oh hey...they were damn good" but dont take in game situations or other variables....such as playing poor teams or games where we gave up huge, late game drives.






Chieferific wrote:
5. There is a difference between an assumption and being hypothetical. Again, look it up. Saying you'd be unhappy with a 32nd ranked Defense is an assumption. Not being Hypothetical. You diluted the importance of the #1 ranking. I'm not gonna look for it. If you can't remember saying it. You look it up.


You keep saying look it up because you cant prove anything. The only thing you HAVE successfully proven is that you dont have a clue what you are talking about and that youll make stuff up in a lame effort to make a point.

I didnt ONCE dilute the importance of the number 1 ranking ITSELF. Thats why you cant show it....because I never said it.

I said WE werent as good as that top ranking implied.

And how is saying that Id be unhappy with the worst defense in the league an "assumption"? No...I KNOW FOR A FACT Id be mad if we ACTUALLY had the worst defense in the league. And if we ACTUALLY had the best defense last year, Id be happy too. We were the number 1 overall defense in 2008. That year it was more than deserved....a historically good defense. In 2011....we were great ON PAPER. The vast majority of people, Steeler fan or not....could plainly see that our defense was not that good last year.

And again, if you dont think playing garbage QBs all year didnt help how we looked "on paper"...you are the one who is delusional here.

Chieferific wrote:
6. You point out that Sanchez's game doesn't prove which Defense is better. I agree. This was my point. You missed that. Since you cannot connect the dots I'll do it for you.....If your point on the #1 Defense is based on who we didn't play and my point is you can't do that because you don't know what would happen. Sometimes Crappy QBs play great and sometimes Great QBs play crappy. This is MY point. Not yours.


This is a perfect example of when someone tries to be a smart a$$ but just completely humiliates themselves.

I know what point you were trying to make.....I never once disputed any of that. My point is you clearly cherry picked one QB and how they played against both teams...and you were CLEARLY just looking straight at the stat sheet and not considering all the other factors. None of that proves anything against the points I made.

And no...Im not talking about the points you CLAIMED I made that I never did. Im talking about points I actually DID make, Mr. "I deal with Facts, but hardly ever use them"


Chieferific wrote:
7. No, I do not expect you to admit you're wrong. I know that ain't happening.



Again...what am I wrong about? What have you proven me wrong on?

You just keep SAYING Im wrong,.

If that makes you feel better, great.

Doesnt make it so.

Anyway, this isnt going anywhere. Keep chasing your tail and claiming Im wrong without proving a damn thing. Ive said my peace.

Way to gloss over the context. This was a statement refering to your point that we played crappy QBs and not elite ones. This opinion is based on who we didn't play (I know you don't understand this). This was pointing that out. An effort to show you your thinking error. One i guess you missed, again. The disagreement is simple....I think Lebeau is STILL a great DC. You don't. I show reasons for my opinion. Mine our based on the Defense year in and year out ranks at the top. Year and year out playing the top QBs no worse than anyone else and usually better. You show yours. One based on who be played and didn't play. Misread/misunderstand and take posts out of context. I debate your side. You become offended that anyone would challenge your thinking. Throw in some subtle insults and add some arrogance and you got Classic 43
Agree it isn't going anywhere. We'll see if they are still ranked near the top after playing 9 games against top end QBs. My bet is that they will be.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
We'll see if they are still ranked near the top after playing 9 games against top end QBs. My bet is that they will be.


i would love it if you're right.

if we see more aggression and more chances taken like we did against Philly, we just might.
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norg


Joined: 13 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here in houston we acctually run a 5-2 sometimes
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9812
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

norg wrote:
here in houston we acctually run a 5-2 sometimes


there in Houston, you actually run an aggressive defense, almost always

*sigh*
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9812
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
We'll see if they are still ranked near the top after playing 9 games against top end QBs. My bet is that they will be.


i would love it if you're right.

if we see more aggression and more chances taken like we did against Philly, we just might.


well, matt Hasselbeck just led an 80-yard game tying TD drive against the Steelers. The Titans haven't had a single 80-yard TD the whole season prior to this.

then the defense gives up 33 yards in 49 seconds for the Titans to get a game-winning field goal.

game winning.

first time that happened this season.

Chief, I really hope you're right. Unfortunately, sad as it is to say this, I'm not real confident that you are correct.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
We'll see if they are still ranked near the top after playing 9 games against top end QBs. My bet is that they will be.


i would love it if you're right.

if we see more aggression and more chances taken like we did against Philly, we just might.


Chieferific I can't believe what you wrote. I don't see this team stopping good QB's at all unless the passrush gets to where it was 4 years ago. Even then, taylor sucks now , Troy is not the same if on the field. Cortez Allen is better than bmac or willieG was, but it don't save the day.

This teams decline now is the result of the D. Injuries, age related decline and scheme are the problems. Last year they played weak qb's most of the year. The schedule isn't so easy this year, and the D has declined. Enjoy watching, not sure if I will.

Penalties are another issue, because these are mostly from lack of skill, like holding or pass interference . Colon and taylor have this problem to take care of, but will they? Colon never had penalties last night, but taylor made up for the difference and should have had a few more penalties.
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