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Time for Lebeau to go.....
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The Curtain


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 522
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunday showed that when LeBeau actually brings the blitzes (at least against a dumb QB) our scheme and talent can still work. Don't know why he played it so safe before the bye week.
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Curtain wrote:
Sunday showed that when LeBeau actually brings the blitzes (at least against a dumb QB) our scheme and talent can still work. Don't know why he played it so safe before the bye week.


Also that he blitzed Timmons more which utilizes he speed a lot more.
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jebrick


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillersenat wrote:
The Curtain wrote:
Sunday showed that when LeBeau actually brings the blitzes (at least against a dumb QB) our scheme and talent can still work. Don't know why he played it so safe before the bye week.


Also that he blitzed Timmons more which utilizes he speed a lot more.


And lessens the chance of using Timmon's instincts or his head. That is some smart planning.
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SMashMouthMike


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My concerns going forward go beyond personnel/injuries...which obviously is the most immediate cause for our recent malaise. Teams are passing the ball at a higher rate than before and will be getting more athletic on the offensive line and we should see complementary running games that emphasize zone blocking. I think we are already. I just think the 2 gap base 3-4 is not a good fit, if this change is indeed the case. Then again, philly runs the zone blocking scheme and we bottled it up pretty well.
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Last edited by SMashMouthMike on Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3249
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Man didn't forget how to coach. His schemes are outdated? Then explain to me how in this Offensive friendly Pass oriented league the Steelers were #1 in Pass Defense last year? In fact, in last year's playoff game against the Broncos he strayed from the formula and payed the price. #1 Defense last year. In the top 5 year after year after year.... What more do you want?
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49848
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
The Man didn't forget how to coach. His schemes are outdated? Then explain to me how in this Offensive friendly Pass oriented league the Steelers were #1 in Pass Defense last year? In fact, in last year's playoff game against the Broncos he strayed from the formula and payed the price. #1 Defense last year. In the top 5 year after year after year.... What more do you want?


Try looking beyond ESPN stats...

Tavaris Jackson
Curtis Paiter
Matt Hasslebeck
Blaine Gabbert
Kevin Kolb
Andy Dalton x2 (rookie)
Tyler Palko
Colt McCoy/Seneca Wallace x 2
Kellen Clemens

Thats 11 games vs QBs that are bottom 10, backups or rookies.

THATS why we had a top pass defense last year. The ONLY reason.

This isnt even meant to argue against LeBeau. But please dont bring up last years defense when it was clear they werent that good, and please dont bring up years past as they hold little relevancy to whats going on now.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
The Man didn't forget how to coach. His schemes are outdated? Then explain to me how in this Offensive friendly Pass oriented league the Steelers were #1 in Pass Defense last year? In fact, in last year's playoff game against the Broncos he strayed from the formula and payed the price. #1 Defense last year. In the top 5 year after year after year.... What more do you want?


Did you ever look at who we played last year? We are more interested in the scheme vs good passing teams . #1 pass D just means yards that is it and a crappy stat as well. Int's , TD's 3rd down pass conversions would be more suitable and factor in the opponent strength as well.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
The Man didn't forget how to coach. His schemes are outdated? Then explain to me how in this Offensive friendly Pass oriented league the Steelers were #1 in Pass Defense last year? In fact, in last year's playoff game against the Broncos he strayed from the formula and payed the price. #1 Defense last year. In the top 5 year after year after year.... What more do you want?


Try looking beyond ESPN stats...

Tavaris Jackson
Curtis Paiter
Matt Hasslebeck
Blaine Gabbert
Kevin Kolb
Andy Dalton x2 (rookie)
Tyler Palko
Colt McCoy/Seneca Wallace x 2
Kellen Clemens

Thats 11 games vs QBs that are bottom 10, backups or rookies.

THATS why we had a top pass defense last year. The ONLY reason.

This isnt even meant to argue against LeBeau. But please dont bring up last years defense when it was clear they werent that good, and please dont bring up years past as they hold little relevancy to whats going on now.

How do we know what they would have done against QBs we didn't face? It's both arrogant and ignorant to assume you do. LAST YEAR IS RELEVANT! Same coach. Same scheme. How can it not be. #1 Defense. I don't care what website/game you look at. It matters. I'm sure if they were ranked 32nd you'd be complaining. It can't matter at 32 and not matter at #1. Can't have it both ways. So if you want if can play the "what if we played......" game that's fine but I deal with facts. No matter where I read them.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
The Man didn't forget how to coach. His schemes are outdated? Then explain to me how in this Offensive friendly Pass oriented league the Steelers were #1 in Pass Defense last year? In fact, in last year's playoff game against the Broncos he strayed from the formula and payed the price. #1 Defense last year. In the top 5 year after year after year.... What more do you want?


Try looking beyond ESPN stats...

Tavaris Jackson
Curtis Paiter
Matt Hasslebeck
Blaine Gabbert
Kevin Kolb
Andy Dalton x2 (rookie)
Tyler Palko
Colt McCoy/Seneca Wallace x 2
Kellen Clemens

Thats 11 games vs QBs that are bottom 10, backups or rookies.

THATS why we had a top pass defense last year. The ONLY reason.

This isnt even meant to argue against LeBeau. But please dont bring up last years defense when it was clear they werent that good, and please dont bring up years past as they hold little relevancy to whats going on now.

How do we know what they would have done against QBs we didn't face? It's both arrogant and ignorant to assume you do. LAST YEAR IS RELEVANT! Same coach. Same scheme. How can it not be. #1 Defense. I don't care what website/game you look at. It matters. I'm sure if they were ranked 32nd you'd be complaining. It can't matter at 32 and not matter at #1. Can't have it both ways. So if you want if can play the "what if we played......" game that's fine but I deal with facts. No matter where I read them.


LMAO...this has to be one of the most contradictory posts Ive ever read.

You tell me you "deal with facts" yet I post the list of QBs we faced last year that clearly had a big part to do with why we had a top ranked pass D, and you present some hypothetical argument about QBs we didnt even face and whine about things I never even began to claim.

If you want to deal in facts, its best not to start strawman arguments and argue points I never made. Just a thought.

And when I said past years arent relevant, I meant that bringing up past succuess doesnt excuse current failures.

And alot of the same issues we are having this year, we had last year too....they were just masked by us playing crap QBs all last year. If you dont think us playing bottom 10 QBs, backiups and rookies all year didnt completely sway that ranking, I dont know what to tell you.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3249
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
The Man didn't forget how to coach. His schemes are outdated? Then explain to me how in this Offensive friendly Pass oriented league the Steelers were #1 in Pass Defense last year? In fact, in last year's playoff game against the Broncos he strayed from the formula and payed the price. #1 Defense last year. In the top 5 year after year after year.... What more do you want?


Try looking beyond ESPN stats...

Tavaris Jackson
Curtis Paiter
Matt Hasslebeck
Blaine Gabbert
Kevin Kolb
Andy Dalton x2 (rookie)
Tyler Palko
Colt McCoy/Seneca Wallace x 2
Kellen Clemens

Thats 11 games vs QBs that are bottom 10, backups or rookies.

THATS why we had a top pass defense last year. The ONLY reason.

This isnt even meant to argue against LeBeau. But please dont bring up last years defense when it was clear they werent that good, and please dont bring up years past as they hold little relevancy to whats going on now.

How do we know what they would have done against QBs we didn't face? It's both arrogant and ignorant to assume you do. LAST YEAR IS RELEVANT! Same coach. Same scheme. How can it not be. #1 Defense. I don't care what website/game you look at. It matters. I'm sure if they were ranked 32nd you'd be complaining. It can't matter at 32 and not matter at #1. Can't have it both ways. So if you want if can play the "what if we played......" game that's fine but I deal with facts. No matter where I read them.


LMAO...this has to be one of the most contradictory posts Ive ever read.

You tell me you "deal with facts" yet I post the list of QBs we faced last year that clearly had a big part to do with why we had a top ranked pass D, and you present some hypothetical argument about QBs we didnt even face and whine about things I never even began to claim.

If you want to deal in facts, its best not to start strawman arguments and argue points I never made. Just a thought.

And when I said past years arent relevant, I meant that bringing up past succuess doesnt excuse current failures.

And alot of the same issues we are having this year, we had last year too....they were just masked by us playing crap QBs all last year. If you dont think us playing bottom 10 QBs, backiups and rookies all year didnt completely sway that ranking, I dont know what to tell you.

Does it not make sense that if you show a list of QBs that are THE reason for the #1 rank you presume a different outcome IF they played others? Are you saying that wasn't the intent. If so, you need to communicate more effectively. Are the elite QBs outplaying they're averages against the Steelers? Did Manning, Palmer and Sanchez have they're best games of the year against the Steelers? As we speak, Sanchez is having a nice game against your vaunted Texans Defense. How did he do against the Steelers WITH a full roster? You can LYAO all you want. You're wrong on this one
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
The Man didn't forget how to coach. His schemes are outdated? Then explain to me how in this Offensive friendly Pass oriented league the Steelers were #1 in Pass Defense last year?


out of the 16 games we played during the regular season, only 5 of them were against QBs who are starting this season and weren't rookies last year.

In those 5 games against non-rookie starting QBs, we were 1-4.

We lost to Flacco twice, Schaub, and Alex Smith, and we beat Tom Brady

all the other games were against QBs who either were rookies or who aren't starting this season

so

11-0 against rookies/scrubs
1-4 against non-rookie NFL QBs
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
The Man didn't forget how to coach. His schemes are outdated? Then explain to me how in this Offensive friendly Pass oriented league the Steelers were #1 in Pass Defense last year? In fact, in last year's playoff game against the Broncos he strayed from the formula and payed the price. #1 Defense last year. In the top 5 year after year after year.... What more do you want?


Try looking beyond ESPN stats...

Tavaris Jackson
Curtis Paiter
Matt Hasslebeck
Blaine Gabbert
Kevin Kolb
Andy Dalton x2 (rookie)
Tyler Palko
Colt McCoy/Seneca Wallace x 2
Kellen Clemens

Thats 11 games vs QBs that are bottom 10, backups or rookies.

THATS why we had a top pass defense last year. The ONLY reason.

This isnt even meant to argue against LeBeau. But please dont bring up last years defense when it was clear they werent that good, and please dont bring up years past as they hold little relevancy to whats going on now.


oh crap. beat me to it.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still haven't seen anything about how the elite QBs play better against the Steelers. Flacco, Smith, .... beat lots of teams. So did Brady. You can't pick and choose when your side is right. It's simple.....the Steelers have one of the best Defenses in the league every year. Again, what more do you want?
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chieferific wrote:
Does it not make sense that if you show a list of QBs that are THE reason for the #1 rank you presume a different outcome IF they played others?


I showed you a fact. Thats what I did.

QBs we actually played.

YOU are the one bringing up the hypotheticals.

But okay...lets say I am presuming that. Its an extremely fair and valid assumption BASED on facts.

Chieferific wrote:
Are you saying that wasn't the intent. If so, you need to communicate more effectively.


Says the guy who says he deals with facts and then goes the complete opposite way. Yeah.

Chieferific wrote:
Are the elite QBs outplaying they're averages against the Steelers? Did Manning, Palmer and Sanchez have they're best games of the year against the Steelers? As we speak, Sanchez is having a nice game against your vaunted Texans Defense.


Thats your argument? Really?

For one, you need to try reading better because I never claimed we had the worst defense in the league or anything like that. I just said its no where near the best, and any objective Steeler fan that watched the Steelers last year knows that, and knows that playing crappy QBs most of the year masked our weaknesses most of last year.

Secondly, its hilarious how you cherry pick in an effort to make an argument. Even if you consider Sanchez game last night vs the Texans better than his game vs the Steelers, that doesnt prove a thing in terms of whose better...especiallly when you consdier Sanchez is one of the most inconsistent QBs in the league.

Third....Manning had a great day vs us and tore us up in the 2nd half. So did Palmer. And it all goes back to my main complaint about LeBeau...lack of adjustments. Same with last year...in the playoffs vs Tebow, and even in some games during the season vs crappy QBs like Gabbert and Palko.

Chieferific wrote:
How did he do against the Steelers WITH a full roster? You can LYAO all you want. You're wrong on this one


You literally proved nothing, so no...Im not wrong.
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 2625
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
Chieferific wrote:
The Man didn't forget how to coach. His schemes are outdated? Then explain to me how in this Offensive friendly Pass oriented league the Steelers were #1 in Pass Defense last year?


out of the 16 games we played during the regular season, only 5 of them were against QBs who are starting this season and weren't rookies last year.

In those 5 games against non-rookie starting QBs, we were 1-4.

We lost to Flacco twice, Schaub, and Alex Smith, and we beat Tom Brady

all the other games were against QBs who either were rookies or who aren't starting this season

so

11-0 against rookies/scrubs
1-4 against non-rookie NFL QBs


We beat brady with non lebeau D as well, so essentially 0-5 IMO because if it was traditional lebeau D vs brady, the results would have been the same as in years past

the word scrubs surfaces Laughing been a while - thank you
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