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GDT Wk 4: (1-2) Oakland Raiders @ (1-2) Denver Broncos
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 17447
Location: Denver
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
I wonder what makes rivalries like these sustainable? I mean, the players change over and over and over and over and over again. And, several of the players have probably played together and are friends, yet the Raiders v. Broncos has always maintained some kind of turmoil between them.

Is it the fans that keep the hatred between the two teams alive?
Yes, very few of the players would even remember the birth of the rivalry and probably more than half the players on each team weren't even born yet when Raiders last won a SB. Fans drive rivalries and players thrive off it.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rivalry had to be instigated by two events 1) The fifth down the Broncos got in the AFC Championship game to get into the Super Bowl, and 2) Shanahan getting axed by the Raiders and then later becoming the Broncos HC.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
This is not a good spot for the Raiders. The secondary is simply destroyed. Huff will play CB most likely with Lee opposite.

Lee was destroyed by Hartline in week 2. Makes tackles, but gives up easy catches.

Huff is a FS getting a second start at CB. He spend most of last week giving the Steelers WRs 10-12 yard cushions at the line.

Ross could factor as well. He was taken off GB's practice squad. He's unknown at this point.

The Raiders seem intent on letting teams take what they are giving away underneath and hoping to force a turnover or mistake. Worked against the Steelers last week as they forced 2 fumbles.

That said, this is a road game and the Raiders IMO can't matchup defensively. They need to generate pass rush, but simply haven't been able to do so.

The key seems to be pushing the pocket up the middle so Manning can't step up. Seymour and Kelly a year ago would abuse the interior line of Denver's, now it'd be a surprise. Both these guys play has dropped off significantly. Be age or scheme, they are simply not as effective as they once were.

Manning sees the rush off the edge well and steps away from pressure. But the Raiders lack the edge rusher anyhow (unless Carter returns to midseason form this week, which I doubt).

Not really focusing on the Raiders offense, because it will come down to their defense to make a game out of this. I don't think they are up to the task and Denver will win this by 14 easily. A lot would have to go right for the Raiders defensively and can you really expect that 2 weeks in a row?


Pretty good analysis BP.

I don't know much about your team this year, but if your secondaries banged up you've got problems. You can solve some of them by either:

Loading up on the OL right (neither Ramirez or Franklin can move laterally)

or: run stunts on the OL left. Beadles has the same problem with lateral movement.

Outside of Clady and Walton, no one on our OL has been able to consistently win match ups.

PM's about to break out I think. Showed a lot of zip on the ball in the 4th last week and one day he and our WR's will get on the same page. (this week?)

"O" wise I think you'll struggle. Our young DL and LB's are learning weekly and we finally have some talent on the DL. I think this week, Malik Jackson has an impact. Hopefully Wolfe and Unrein too. Those are three young, large, quick and strong guys. How's your OL?

We're stronger and deeper in the secondary than we've been in 20+ years. it'll be tough if you've got to throw.

Should be interesting. I'm guessing we slant to the gaps (keep you guessing) and focus on stuffing your running game. If you can't run this weekend, you lose.

Anyway, should be a lot of fun. This'll be about my 80th + Raiders/Bronco's matchup and I'll do my best to watch it.

I'm driving back to Alaska right now, in Fort Nelson BC, and may find it difficult to find a place to watch the game Sunday. Oh well. Between all the great posters here and lomaxgr's analysis after the "all 22" I'll know about as much as if I'd seen it.
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Twizlers


Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason, we will find a way to lose this game. I mean we haven't beaten the Raiders in Mile High in 5, yes FIVE years. Why should this year be any different?

It's funny but I feel more optimistic playing the Raiders at the Coliseum than in Denver. Seeing how recent years have played out, I wouldn't be surprised to see Oakland fans feeling the same way.

That being said I'll still be at the game. Here's hoping that history will be changed.
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AussieBronco66


Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 437
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where were you September 16 2007 when a 23yd Jason Elam OT FG gave Denver a 23-20 win over Oakland at Mile High? Can't remember? Well 5 years ago was the last time Denver natives witnessed a victory over the Faiders and its about time they got renewed with the feeling.

Denver have a clear advantage in this game and they counter Oakland's one advantage, their running game. Sure Arian Foster busted out 105 big ones against us, but that was after the week before we handcuffed Michael Turner. I think our DL and LB core absolutely stuff Run DMC all day and force Oakland to pass and Bailey and Harris will have a field day against Palmer.

O wise I reckon Peyton will light up the field all day. From the first drive to the last there will be beautiful attacking football all day. McGahee torched them last year in Oakland and it wouldn't surprise me if he does it again, he seems to have adopted the rivalry as a personal vendetta. Watch for Peyton to use Tamme and Dreesen a bit more to keep the secondary guessing.

Denver 38
Oakland 17
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:

Pretty good analysis BP.

I don't know much about your team this year, but if your secondaries banged up you've got problems. You can solve some of them by either:

Loading up on the OL right (neither Ramirez or Franklin can move laterally)

or: run stunts on the OL left. Beadles has the same problem with lateral movement.

Outside of Clady and Walton, no one on our OL has been able to consistently win match ups.


Looks good on paper. But Oakland's pass rush hasn't proven to solid. Will be interesting to see the roles Seymour and Kelly play this week. Seems they are more committed to the run now than shooting the gaps.

AKRNA wrote:
PM's about to break out I think. Showed a lot of zip on the ball in the 4th last week and one day he and our WR's will get on the same page. (this week?)


The Raiders secondary is in shambles, so Manning should have success. There could be an overreaction 'breakout' commentary behind it.

AKRNA wrote:
"O" wise I think you'll struggle. Our young DL and LB's are learning weekly and we finally have some talent on the DL. I think this week, Malik Jackson has an impact. Hopefully Wolfe and Unrein too. Those are three young, large, quick and strong guys. How's your OL?


The Raiders have faced 3 better run D's the first 3 weeks. The Oline is a work in progress. Wiz is back healthy w/ 2 starts under him now. Smith is playing RT as a backup. The weak link has been Brisel who was signed in FA. On the whole, they get better each week in the ZBS.

AKRNA wrote:
We're stronger and deeper in the secondary than we've been in 20+ years. it'll be tough if you've got to throw.


Don't see that. Not after watching the Falcons and Texans dismantle that secondary. Adams and Moore as suspect. Porter was beaten up last week (how's his knee) and Bailey is Bailey. If this is the best secondary in 20+ years, then that last 20 years was awful.

AKRNA wrote:
Should be interesting. I'm guessing we slant to the gaps (keep you guessing) and focus on stuffing your running game. If you can't run this weekend, you lose.


Denver isn't a strong run defense but, not sure if McFadden's success will continue or not. 2 poor weeks run blocking and last week. What Raiders play caller and Oline show up this week?

AKRNA wrote:
Anyway, should be a lot of fun. This'll be about my 80th + Raiders/Bronco's matchup and I'll do my best to watch it.

I'm driving back to Alaska right now, in Fort Nelson BC, and may find it difficult to find a place to watch the game Sunday. Oh well. Between all the great posters here and lomaxgr's analysis after the "all 22" I'll know about as much as if I'd seen it.


Safe travels man. Enjoy the game.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AussieBronco66 wrote:

Denver have a clear advantage in this game and they counter Oakland's one advantage, their running game. Sure Arian Foster busted out 105 big ones against us, but that was after the week before we handcuffed Michael Turner. I think our DL and LB core absolutely stuff Run DMC all day and force Oakland to pass and Bailey and Harris will have a field day against Palmer.


Shutting down Turner isn't a feat. The guy isn't the same back and the Falcon's are a pure passing team now. The Raiders are closer to the Texans on the ground then the Falcons.

Also, 2 weeks in a row the Denver secondary has been worked over. So why all of a sudden should they have a field day?
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oakdb36


Joined: 01 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
I wonder what makes rivalries like these sustainable? I mean, the players change over and over and over and over and over again. And, several of the players have probably played together and are friends, yet the Raiders v. Broncos has always maintained some kind of turmoil between them.

Is it the fans that keep the hatred between the two teams alive?


I think it's the fans. And the fact it's a division rivalry. These 2 teams also are the most historically successful in the AFC West.

On a side note, this year both HCs used to be D-coordinator for the opposing team.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it just me Bronco fans or does Peyton's arm look a lot weaker? I was watching some of his highlights from previous weeks, and the zip isn't there. Not like it's going to matter against our terrible pass D, but just something I noticed.

Do you think he's still getting healthier, and it will improve? Or do you think this is as good as it gets and it will continue to regress?
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JerseysFinest27


Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 8400
Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
jsthomp2007 wrote:
I hate predicting these games and I am not gonna. Go State University of New Jersey.

Rutgers?

He's got to be talking about TCNJ (The College of New Jersey).
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Donut


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Is it just me Bronco fans or does Peyton's arm look a lot weaker? I was watching some of his highlights from previous weeks, and the zip isn't there. Not like it's going to matter against our terrible pass D, but just something I noticed.

Do you think he's still getting healthier, and it will improve? Or do you think this is as good as it gets and it will continue to regress?

It was getting weaker before the injury.
I think he'll get better. I think he still is shaking some rust of not playing for a year.
big_palooka wrote:
AussieBronco66 wrote:

Denver have a clear advantage in this game and they counter Oakland's one advantage, their running game. Sure Arian Foster busted out 105 big ones against us, but that was after the week before we handcuffed Michael Turner. I think our DL and LB core absolutely stuff Run DMC all day and force Oakland to pass and Bailey and Harris will have a field day against Palmer.


Shutting down Turner isn't a feat. The guy isn't the same back and the Falcon's are a pure passing team now. The Raiders are closer to the Texans on the ground then the Falcons.

Also, 2 weeks in a row the Denver secondary has been worked over. So why all of a sudden should they have a field day?

Turner looks cooked saddly. I dont think Palmer is a good QB but he'll have success. I think the Raiders will have a significant impact from run game.
big_palooka wrote:
Care to explain how the Raiders are going to stop Manning from marching up and down the field on their defense? I'm all ears.
They'll need to run the ball on offense and keep denver off the field. Then hopefully have big game from Seymour and have some blitzs attacking the right side.
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jsthomp2007


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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Location: USA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
jsthomp2007 wrote:
I wonder what makes rivalries like these sustainable? I mean, the players change over and over and over and over and over again. And, several of the players have probably played together and are friends, yet the Raiders v. Broncos has always maintained some kind of turmoil between them.

Is it the fans that keep the hatred between the two teams alive?


I think it's the fans. And the fact it's a division rivalry. These 2 teams also are the most historically successful in the AFC West.

On a side note, this year both HCs used to be D-coordinator for the opposing team.


Well...in terms of Super Bowls wins and appearances, they are the most successful...but the Raiders Commitment to Mediocrity wouldn't really make them successful, now would it?
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sandiegoraider1


Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AussieBronco66 wrote:
Where were you September 16 2007 when a 23yd Jason Elam OT FG gave Denver a 23-20 win over Oakland at Mile High? Can't remember? Well 5 years ago was the last time Denver natives witnessed a victory over the Faiders and its about time they got renewed with the feeling.

Denver have a clear advantage in this game and they counter Oakland's one advantage, their running game. Sure Arian Foster busted out 105 big ones against us, but that was after the week before we handcuffed Michael Turner. I think our DL and LB core absolutely stuff Run DMC all day and force Oakland to pass and Bailey and Harris will have a field day against Palmer.

O wise I reckon Peyton will light up the field all day. From the first drive to the last there will be beautiful attacking football all day. McGahee torched them last year in Oakland and it wouldn't surprise me if he does it again, he seems to have adopted the rivalry as a personal vendetta. Watch for Peyton to use Tamme and Dreesen a bit more to keep the secondary guessing.

Denver 38
Oakland 17


Michael Turner has a 3.7 ypc on the season and really hasnt done much of anything spectacular all year.
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JRebar913


Joined: 11 Mar 2012
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Location: Kansas City
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew it, its all my fault. 5 years ago started dating a raiders fan, after the broncos beat them at home. denver hasnt beat oakland at home since Sad
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Cutler06


Joined: 27 Aug 2006
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Location: Westminster
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JRebar913 wrote:
I knew it, its all my fault. 5 years ago started dating a raiders fan, after the broncos beat them at home. denver hasnt beat oakland at home since Sad


Are you still dating her ??
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