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Discuss: Are we better off switching to a 3-4 Next year?
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Discuss: Are we better off switching to a 3-4 Next year? Reply with quote

Before many will criticize me for this analysis,

When you look at our roster, we have a bunch of big bodies right now.

DT: Gerald McCoy, Roy Miller, Gary Gibson
DE: Michael Bennett, Adrian Clayborn, Deqwan Bowers, Neo Teosheim.

I really cannot find one pure pass rusher on this squad right now and we've invested 3 high picks on McCoy, Bowers, and Clayborn.

From my perspective, Clayborn is a powerful DE that is a great run defender and can push the pocket, but lacks a pass rush technique to consistantly get to the QB. McCoy does a great job of taking on blockers and collapsing the middle, but no one else has given much help.

Bowers is still a complete mystery and in my opinion, needs to drop about 15 lbs as he looks heavier than last year.

From my prospective, why not implement a 3-4 defense? Line up Clayborn at RDE and McCoy at LDE. Have David and Foster on the inside LB positions. Both are very good in the nickel and are gaining experience. Then, with this draft class, go out and get a dynamic pass rusher. (Werner, Jordan, ) and pick up a NT in FA (Knighton).

This is very hypothetical I know, but think about this:

Think of a big NT plugging the Holes. With McCoy and Clayborn collapsing the outside, freeing up our LBs.

DLE: McCoy
NT: FA Option
RDE: Clayborn

SOLB: Bowers-if he can cut some weight/FA Addition or Draft Pick/ Watson
ILB: Foster
ILB: David
WOLB: Draft pick (Jordan, Werner, Mingo, Moore)?

I feel that Clayborn's strength is in a 3-4 defense and McCoy can excell in any defense, same with Foster and David.

Discuss.
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted something like this awhile ago and it wasn't well received, but I don't think it's the craziest idea.

That being said it's not where the majority of our players have experience, and we're putting some round pegs into oval holes, if that makes sense. Some guys could probably make it work, but aren't the best fits. McCoy could definitely be a 5 tech, but it's not the best use of his talent. We really don't have any good OLBs, either.

I do think it's the superior defensive base, though, at least with the way the league has gone.

EDIT - I especially wouldn't be opposed to switching with our lack of ability to rush the passer.
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bucsfan333


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We don't have the LBs for a 3/4, and considering how important that position is to the scheme I can't support a switch. Our LBs would have to be big guys that can constantly take on OL. We don't have that. Hell, we don't even have consistant pass rushers.

We don't have the personnel for a 3/4 defensive line either. We've got the size, but we don't have guys that can eat up blockers.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm saying with this up-coming off-season, this draft is loaded with pass rushing talent.

Really, in hind-sight, we'd only need to add a NT and ROLB pass rusher.
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RoeKG


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
I'm saying with this up-coming off-season, this draft is loaded with pass rushing talent.

Really, in hind-sight, we'd only need to add a NT and ROLB pass rusher.


I think we would need both pass rushers unless you are really banking on Watson being the other rusher, but I think if he were good enough to start in a 3-4 he would be seeing the field more now. I don't think Bowers or any of our other DEs - well, maybe Bennett - can cover people well enough to play that position.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Switching to a 3-4 isn't going to fix our pass rush. Our DEs aren't producing and our LBs have been terrible blitzers this season. That isn't going to change in a new scheme, they will still have the same issues.

We need more pass-rushing talent. Not a change in scheme.
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
Switching to a 3-4 isn't going to fix our pass rush. Our DEs aren't producing and our LBs have been terrible blitzers this season. That isn't going to change in a new scheme, they will still have the same issues.

We need more pass-rushing talent. Not a change in scheme.


While I also think the 3-4 is better than the 4-3, I agree with DRD here. We just don't have the guys.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
DaRealdeal wrote:
Switching to a 3-4 isn't going to fix our pass rush. Our DEs aren't producing and our LBs have been terrible blitzers this season. That isn't going to change in a new scheme, they will still have the same issues.

We need more pass-rushing talent. Not a change in scheme.


While I also think the 3-4 is better than the 4-3, I agree with DRD here. We just don't have the guys.


Why I'm saying is why not utilize guys that we have right now that can excel in a 3-4 and add pass rushers this offseason? The draft is loaded with them and a nt. read my original post.

Obviously we would not retain Bennett and use the money in FA for a cb nt or pass rush olb.

It's probably a long shot but I really think its be interesting.
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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think David gets swallowed up playing inside LB in a 3-4 unfortunately.
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bucsfan333


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather retain Bennett, to be honest. He's got some hustle when he's on a snap count.
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
DaRealdeal wrote:
Switching to a 3-4 isn't going to fix our pass rush. Our DEs aren't producing and our LBs have been terrible blitzers this season. That isn't going to change in a new scheme, they will still have the same issues.

We need more pass-rushing talent. Not a change in scheme.


While I also think the 3-4 is better than the 4-3, I agree with DRD here. We just don't have the guys.


Why I'm saying is why not utilize guys that we have right now that can excel in a 3-4 and add pass rushers this offseason? The draft is loaded with them and a nt. read my original post.

Obviously we would not retain Bennett and use the money in FA for a cb nt or pass rush olb.

It's probably a long shot but I really think its be interesting.


I read the original post.

DLE: McCoy Not really a good fit, he's more of a penetrator, won't really eat up blocks
NT: FA Option Hopefully
RDE: Clayborn This could possibly work

SOLB: Bowers-if he can cut some weight/FA Addition or Draft Pick/ Watson Again, a huge if. I don't see Bowers being fluid enough. Watson might work, but he's a bit small and we have no idea if he can consistently get to the quarterback
ILB: Foster Might have trouble getting off blocks
ILB: David Will get swallowed up inside
WOLB: Draft pick (Jordan, Werner, Mingo, Moore)? Hopefully..

Like I said, I love the 3-4 and find it to be the defense with the most upside in football. That being said, I think we need more than a NT and pass rusher. We would probably need a DE, NT, 2 pass rushers, and 2 ILB's (1 for depth). That's 6 possible new players, along with our existing players learning completely new positions, and acquiring even more depth players for all of these new positions. I just don't see that happening.
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indifference


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Won't happen. I'm all over for innovation but our head coach is a 4-3 guy all the way. Clayborn isn't getting much love here but he is most definitely a pass rush threat off the edge. You seen how much our defensive line masked our porous secondary when we dominated the Cowboys in the trenches. We need to get AC back 100% and this defense will be much better. How much, I dunno but it won't be as problematic as it is now. Tampa just needs to get more threats. Guys like DTG don't cut it. When FA starts we gotta go after Michael Johnson. Some LENGTH and speed off the edge is what we need.
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Soul Glo


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No no no. Our pass rush wouldn't change and it would just hurt our DEs and guys like David.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright cool. Thanks for te insight.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
Won't happen. I'm all over for innovation but our head coach is a 4-3 guy all the way. Clayborn isn't getting much love here but he is most definitely a pass rush threat off the edge. You seen how much our defensive line masked our porous secondary when we dominated the Cowboys in the trenches. We need to get AC back 100% and this defense will be much better. How much, I dunno but it won't be as problematic as it is now. Tampa just needs to get more threats. Guys like DTG don't cut it. When FA starts we gotta go after Michael Johnson. Some LENGTH and speed off the edge is what we need.

So true. We dominated the Panthers OLine in week 1 too. Pretty interesting when you consider that both Cam and Romo are two of the more mobile QBs in the league...

I definitely think that people are forgetting how good Clayborn is. Just his ability to put pressure on the edge keeps QBs confined to the pocket. I can't even imagine how many more sacks McCoy would have this season with a healthy Clayborn. McCoy hasn't notched a single sack since Clayborn went down. I don't think that's a coincidence.
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