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Are we being to hard on Freeman?
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
For all the reasons we have for Freeman not doing well, honestly I don't think they should really apply, especially with the scheme. I watched Brandon Weeden move the ball pretty well and make some really great throws last night against the Ravens. Why can't Freeman do that?


Yeah that's why I see us moving on from him next offseason. Many of us forget that freeman was considered by many a huge risk to take in the first round back in 2009. I personally thought we could reap the rewards but he never picked up the speed of the nfl it seems.

Unfortunately this also could cost mark dominik his job as well. For I think he's improved with better decision making recently he missed on some big free agents that were busts ( A Bryant, kellen Winslow, Michael Clayton, Derrick Ward). But he missed on the most important position and I blame Raheem for it as well.


Clayton and Ward were terrible moves but Winslow and Bryant?

Ya Kellen was different but he produced. His first season in he broke the frachise receptions record AND setting the bar for the most yards ever by a Buc te. What did he do the following two seasons... led the team in receptions.

Bryant after signing for the minimum posted a 1,200 - 7td season and led the team in receptions with 83. Those numbers were posted with Mr. Noodle arm himself Jeff Garcia, Bryant should of probably had another 2-3 tds that season if his qb had half an arm. Mark didn't give him a long term deal but did offer the franchise tag which I would say at the time was a smart move.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
For all the reasons we have for Freeman not doing well, honestly I don't think they should really apply, especially with the scheme. I watched Brandon Weeden move the ball pretty well and make some really great throws last night against the Ravens. Why can't Freeman do that?

I'm not sure I understand that. The scheme does play a big part of it. We play almost exclusively 2 wide out of the I-form and the Browns, despite having little to no talent at WR, went 3 and 4 wide most of the game last night. I mean, Richardson only got 18 touches (and only 14 rushing attempts) - they let Weeden air it out 50 plus times. Has Freeman even attempted 30 throws in a game this season?

This isn't to excuse Freeman because he definitely has a lot to work on, but historically when we have spread it out Freeman has been very good.
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Freeman is out of the shotgun with at least 3 wideouts, he has actually looked pretty solid usually. I think he is just more confident out of the gun and sees the field a lot better.

Naturally this means we will continue to see I-form play actions all game.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
For all the reasons we have for Freeman not doing well, honestly I don't think they should really apply, especially with the scheme. I watched Brandon Weeden move the ball pretty well and make some really great throws last night against the Ravens. Why can't Freeman do that?

I'm not sure I understand that. The scheme does play a big part of it. We play almost exclusively 2 wide out of the I-form and the Browns, despite having little to no talent at WR, went 3 and 4 wide most of the game last night. I mean, Richardson only got 18 touches (and only 14 rushing attempts) - they let Weeden air it out 50 plus times. Has Freeman even attempted 30 throws in a game this season?

This isn't to excuse Freeman because he definitely has a lot to work on, but historically when we have spread it out Freeman has been very good.


DRD the scheme has nothing to do with the following that I've stated.

Quote:
It's not that he's learning a new offense but his flaws out there make him look like a rookie who hasn't played in the nfl before. Holds the ball still has a long release his footwork has been a work in progress and still hasn't improved. He stares down his Wrs and doesn't go through his progressions leaving possible big plays on the field by not seeing guys open. He waits too long for his Wrs to get open and does not throw on anticipation. Cannot throw his Wrs open ever. I question his ability in reading the defense recognizing the coverage. Horrible pocket awareness.


No matter the formations he's still going to stare down his Wrs. Check out Steve Whites film break down. His poor vision and awareness and inability to throw on time and anticipation and even not reading the coverages presnap cost us big plays.

So many are looking at the scheme but these are aspects in his game that have nothing to do with it.
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RoeKG


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
For all the reasons we have for Freeman not doing well, honestly I don't think they should really apply, especially with the scheme. I watched Brandon Weeden move the ball pretty well and make some really great throws last night against the Ravens. Why can't Freeman do that?

I'm not sure I understand that. The scheme does play a big part of it. We play almost exclusively 2 wide out of the I-form and the Browns, despite having little to no talent at WR, went 3 and 4 wide most of the game last night. I mean, Richardson only got 18 touches (and only 14 rushing attempts) - they let Weeden air it out 50 plus times. Has Freeman even attempted 30 throws in a game this season?

This isn't to excuse Freeman because he definitely has a lot to work on, but historically when we have spread it out Freeman has been very good.


My main point is that if a rookie can come in and produce in his scheme, why can't Freeman do it? I know the scheme is important, but the fact that it's new shouldn't really be an excuse if you can have RG3, Luck and Weeden all stepping in and frankly outperforming him. They have had just as much time with their OC and gameplan as Freeman has.

For the record, I wasn't trying to compare Weeden's stats to Freeman's. But Weeden had pocket presence, he made the right reads, he threw the ball on the run, he was accurate... really haven't seen Free do those things this year.

Yes, the WRs need to play better. Yes, the gameplan needs to improve. But almost any other reason to justify his poor play is just an excuse.
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
DaRealdeal wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
For all the reasons we have for Freeman not doing well, honestly I don't think they should really apply, especially with the scheme. I watched Brandon Weeden move the ball pretty well and make some really great throws last night against the Ravens. Why can't Freeman do that?

I'm not sure I understand that. The scheme does play a big part of it. We play almost exclusively 2 wide out of the I-form and the Browns, despite having little to no talent at WR, went 3 and 4 wide most of the game last night. I mean, Richardson only got 18 touches (and only 14 rushing attempts) - they let Weeden air it out 50 plus times. Has Freeman even attempted 30 throws in a game this season?

This isn't to excuse Freeman because he definitely has a lot to work on, but historically when we have spread it out Freeman has been very good.


DRD the scheme has nothing to do with the following that I've stated.

OK...that's fine. I wasn't responding to your point. though.

RoeKG wrote:
My main point is that if a rookie can come in and produce in his scheme, why can't Freeman do it? I know the scheme is important, but the fact that it's new shouldn't really be an excuse if you can have RG3, Luck and Weeden all stepping in and frankly outperforming him. They have had just as much time with their OC and gameplan as Freeman has.

For the record, I wasn't trying to compare Weeden's stats to Freeman's. But Weeden had pocket presence, he made the right reads, he threw the ball on the run, he was accurate... really haven't seen Free do those things this year.

Yes, the WRs need to play better. Yes, the gameplan needs to improve. But almost any other reason to justify his poor play is just an excuse.

And I hear you, but these OCs are building their schemes around their QBs. RGIII played in a spread-option attack at Baylor and now that's what he is playing in Washington. Weeden played out of the spread at Oklahoma State and as we saw last night, the Browns are utilizing the spread quite a bit. Even with Cam last year, Chud made Cam comfortable with the spread-option which is what he did at Auburn.

What are Freeman's strengths? His arm and his mobility. When has he looked his best? When he is moving around in the pocket, taking shots down field in a spread attack out of the shotgun. What does our offense look like now? A run based attack out of the I formation where Freeman plays second fiddle to a struggling rushing attack.

Now maybe our offense will evolve as the season goes on, but our base offense is not conducive to Freeman's strengths.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thing is you look at Cam Newton and teams are figuring out taking away your athleticism and see how you respond. It's good to be an athletic. Qb. But you can't always rely on it and need to become a pure qb. Look at reothlisbuerger. Only uses it when he needs it but he's become a pocket passer. RG III is a rookie and that offense is eventually going to have to be scrapped.

Freeman has been figured out. Te reason he's not running isn't schiano it's just he doesn't see the field well. You can't be successful beig a running qb constantly. I wish he used it when it's available but that's totally not the point with freeman nor the issue.
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epicMustache


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just kinda funny about how last week we were talking about Freeman playing his best ball ever, and the first two weeks Lorig was an absolute beast. He was hammering Kuechly almost every play in week 1. People have such a short memory.

I remember hearing people saying "I'll be happy just being competitive," which is what we've done. Those same people are now having a meltdown.

Confused
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

epicMustache wrote:
It's just kinda funny about how last week we were talking about Freeman playing his best ball ever, and the first two weeks Lorig was an absolute beast. He was hammering Kuechly almost every play in week 1. People have such a short memory.

I remember hearing people saying "I'll be happy just being competitive," which is what we've done. Those same people are now having a meltdown.

Confused


Game planning. Rob Ryan pointed out in Pregame look where freeman looks first then blanket that side of te field bc he never goes throug progressions nor looks off Wrs. If he can begin doing that awesome but that's easier said than done.
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bucsfan333


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Thing is you look at Cam Newton and teams are figuring out taking away your athleticism and see how you respond. It's good to be an athletic. Qb. But you can't always rely on it and need to become a pure qb. Look at reothlisbuerger. Only uses it when he needs it but he's become a pocket passer. RG III is a rookie and that offense is eventually going to have to be scrapped.

Freeman has been figured out. Te reason he's not running isn't schiano it's just he doesn't see the field well. You can't be successful beig a running qb constantly. I wish he used it when it's available but that's totally not the point with freeman nor the issue.

Freeman has never been considered a running QB. He's been pass first as long as I've heard of him.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freaking Brandon Weeden throws over 300 yards against the ravens defense on the road and my buddy who was watching the game said his Wrs hurt him with some bad drops. Like come on. He improved that quickly in 3 weeks.

Freeman has no excuses.
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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another Freeman thread on how he can't be a starting caliber QB in the NFL. Yawn!!!
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bucsEST96


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definately need more than 2 300 yard games(2yrs ago) to Be satisfied, in fact if he don't hit 300 & 2 TD's this week I'm officially done with him and I started the Freeman bandwagon . When Eli was in this phase he was STILL posting big #'s
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't need 300 yd games exactly. I want to see him basically carve up defenses move the ball down fields make quicker decisions go through progressions and recognize the defensive scheme and give his guys a chance to make a play.

Good qbs Atleast throw on anticipation and go through progressions. Josh does neither.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it's saddening to say unless we have the #1 pick we haw no shot at Geno Smith. Wow. Dude has made every throw and his release is Aaron Rodgers like quick
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