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Hood's injury and the play
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3rivers


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 2226
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Hood's injury and the play Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4E8xpOrQLM

This looks like a cheap shot from smith. Is this legal? If it is, then what ever happened to player safety? I can't believe this. NFL is getting quite pathetic these days.

I can't seem to find anything out about Hood's injury or Gilbert's, and it doesn't seem like anyone cares either.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's legal

on run plays, the OL can chop you while you're engaged with another blocker if the OL lined up across from you or lined up next to the guy who was lined up across from you
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is one of the reasons LeBeaus scheme will no longer play in today's game.

Unfortunately 100% legal, as keth noted.

And yet another reason to understand Gooddell and the owners safety mantra is a complete farce.
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
it's legal

on run plays, the OL can chop you while you're engaged with another blocker if the OL lined up across from you or lined up next to the guy who was lined up across from you


Why do I keep reading people saying this was an illegal chop block? Looks like it was the center blocking Hood high, and guard coming low.
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SMashMouthMike


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is 100% legal and perfectly illustrates(along with all the passing) why 2 gap control technique on the d line is becoming a scheme of the past. 2 gap is a great scheme. So much so, that the NFL and its lawyers had to cook the rule book in order to stifle it. Seriously, read the excerpt in the NFL rule book about Chop Blocks. It's utter BS.

That is what zone blocking schemes do - they stretch out the holes in 2 gap defenses and create double teams on d linemen. There is a way to beat it - penetration destroys it, but you got to beat your guy to a spot. Our d linemen are slow off the snap.

I can't find anything about Hood's injury. I assume he's fine because we had the press conference already right? The safety issue is about dollars, not about safety, hypocrisy at its finest. I don;t know why the players union didn't bring this rule to the table. The effectiveness of this block is the only reason the NFL lets this rule exist, when it is illegal(as far as I know) at any other level of football because it is inherently unsafe.
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
it's legal

on run plays, the OL can chop you while you're engaged with another blocker if the OL lined up across from you or lined up next to the guy who was lined up across from you


Why do I keep reading people saying this was an illegal chop block? Looks like it was the center blocking Hood high, and guard coming low.


Because it's traditionally been considered cheap and dangerous and, I believe, illegal.

I'm unclear is a rule change recently took effect legalizing it, but it came into vogue early last season and has been used extensively against 2 gap players since that point.
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
it's legal

on run plays, the OL can chop you while you're engaged with another blocker if the OL lined up across from you or lined up next to the guy who was lined up across from you


Why do I keep reading people saying this was an illegal chop block? Looks like it was the center blocking Hood high, and guard coming low.


Because it's traditionally been considered cheap and dangerous and, I believe, illegal.

I'm unclear is a rule change recently took effect legalizing it, but it came into vogue early last season and has been used extensively against 2 gap players since that point.


Center is lined up across from Hood and Guard is diving at Hood's feet. Not the tackle, which would be illegal, but the player next to the center. Good no call by the refs.
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SMashMouthMike


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Center is lined up across from Hood and Guard is diving at Hood's feet. Not the tackle, which would be illegal, but the player next to the center. Good no call by the refs.


I wouldn't go that far. Although legal, it's a bushleague, pusillanimous, goatphuk tactic.
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
at23steelers wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
it's legal

on run plays, the OL can chop you while you're engaged with another blocker if the OL lined up across from you or lined up next to the guy who was lined up across from you


Why do I keep reading people saying this was an illegal chop block? Looks like it was the center blocking Hood high, and guard coming low.


Because it's traditionally been considered cheap and dangerous and, I believe, illegal.

I'm unclear is a rule change recently took effect legalizing it, but it came into vogue early last season and has been used extensively against 2 gap players since that point.


Center is lined up across from Hood and Guard is diving at Hood's feet. Not the tackle, which would be illegal, but the player next to the center. Good no call by the refs.
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMashMouthMike wrote:
Quote:
Center is lined up across from Hood and Guard is diving at Hood's feet. Not the tackle, which would be illegal, but the player next to the center. Good no call by the refs.


I wouldn't go that far. Although legal, it's a bushleague, pusillanimous,
goatphuk tactic.


So legal.
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SMashMouthMike


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That block is legal, only on a backside of a run when executed by 2 olineman lined up side by side and when it occurs in the NFL.

At any other times, during a pass, in any other league, at any other level = illegal.

In context of player safety, this play is bushleague, pusillanimous and unsafe.

A 'good no call'
- I'd take issue with that characterization. Legal it is.
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMashMouthMike wrote:
That block is legal, only on a backside of a run when executed by 2 olineman lined up side by side and when it occurs in the NFL.

At any other times, during a pass, in any other league, at any other level = illegal.

In context of player safety, this play is bushleague, pusillanimous and unsafe.

A 'good no call'
- I'd take issue with that characterization. Legal it is.


No idea what you mean. So, a play can be legal, yet cause a flag? Makes no sense. Btw, is it me, or does this site take forever to load. Only site that does it for me.
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
at23steelers wrote:


Why do I keep reading people saying this was an illegal chop block? Looks like it was the center blocking Hood high, and guard coming low.


Because it's traditionally been considered cheap and dangerous and, I believe, illegal.

I'm unclear is a rule change recently took effect legalizing it, but it came into vogue early last season and has been used extensively against 2 gap players since that point.


1. It used to be illegal. couldnt' block a dude below the waist who was already engaged

2. it was changed right before 2011, and the Ravens took advantage of that, especially against Casey
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SMashMouthMike


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a bad rule, that is exactly what I mean.

'Good no call' implies that there was no intentional harm, no foul, no unfair advantage gained. Tell that to Ziggy. The special circumstances that were introduced into the rule book by a biased rules committee to make this play legal here, and illegal everywhere else is what I take issue with. Moreover, regardless of what the rulebook says, that play is inherently dangerous. THAT is why it illegal everywhere else. So, it's legal just because of who performed the combo block, not that this kind of block is dangerous because of its nature? Only a lawyer and biased rules committee could invent such a rule. Ill try to dig it up.

I don't have a problem with there not being a flag thrown here. I wouldn't characterize as a "good No call" because it is an agenda driven rule, dangerous, and silly in the context of the player safety drivel the league is throwing at us.
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Last edited by SMashMouthMike on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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3rivers


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hypocrisy: the nfl rules and safety. Only a spectator that disregards player safety would think otherwise after watching such a play and agreeing with nfl rules to allow such a play.

Good point about the nfl and it's lawyers finding a way to kill 2 gap schemes. Too bad they are going to seriously injure a few along the way Idea Isn't the game dangerous enough?

What will be next? We know they don't want good run D and they want more passing. Maybe they will make the field a bit wider and make the endzones larger? Wait, that will interfere with revenues, so forget that Embarassed Best thing to do is just ruin defenses and that they are Embarassed

What will it take for them to change this rule though? I can't believe defenders haven't petitioned against this rule, citing player safety the league claims as a reason. Even an uneducated fan with absolutely nop interest could view the play and say " why did the OL dive at the DL knee"? Announcers kept quiet on the replay as well, they never really went into details about how and why it is legal as if they are told not to speak out about certain things. Then of course, they could cbe just waiting to go for a commercial break Rolling Eyes
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