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McFadden's 64-yard TD run
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:08 pm    Post subject: McFadden's 64-yard TD run Reply with quote

My all-22 notes from yesterday (finished 1st quarter, started on 2nd quarter)

10:44 -

1. LOLB - Woodley - contained outside zone stretch
2. LDE - Ziggy - contained outside zone stretch
3. LILB - Foote - read zone stretch, pursued, filled outside gap
4. NT - Snack - punked 1v1 by Wisniewski, put on skates and ran completely out of play, cutback lane created by his vacated gap (-2.0)
5. RILB - Timmons - cutback was right down his alley, misread zone stretch and attempted to pursue from backside, got caught behind Keisel, completely out of position (-1.0)
6. RDE - Keisel - owned 1v1 by Cooper Carlisle (-1.0)
7. ROLB - Carter - stuck behind Veldheer and Timmons' corpse

see the below pictures

PICTURE 1:


picture 1 is just after the snap. Obvious zone stretch. Timmons has already, somehow, been fooled by some nonexistent misdirection. That's Timmons BEHIND Keisel. See that big fat gap there between #1 (Timmons/Keisel) and #2 (Casey Hampton)? that is supposed to be filled by the ILB.

#2 is Snack. He is going 1v1 vs. Stefan Wisniewski, and a 400-lb oaf on skates is an ugly thing indeed. Wisniewski absolutely owns him.

#3 is another enormous gap. Notice that 3 gap is wide open? Ziggy is about to take on Brisiel and Woodley has to contain. You NEVER EVER EVER allow fast RBs to get outside. You MUST fill that gap, especially since there is an offensive guard that is ready to open it further. Yet another reason why zone blocking is so tough for a 2-gap team. The gaps cannot really be controlled because the gaps are mobile due to the stretch that the zone forces


PICTURE 2:



Ok, so here's #2 picture, about 1 second later. Notice that Woodley and Foote are 1v1 on their guys and are standing them up fairly well. Foote has closed that gap down nicely, and Ziggy is doing exactly what he's supposed to do, get past the RG (Brisiel and help fill that gap.

Now, notice the trainwreck on the other side.

#2 is Casey Hampton, getting owned 1v1 vs. Wisniewski
#1 is Timmons, who is BEHIND KEISEL...please note, there is a LG and a LT there. Their normal responsibilities are to take out the RDE (Keisel) and the ROLB (Carter). That SHOULD leave a 3rd guy open on defense...the RILB....Timmons.
Note that 2 guys (LT, LG) are "blocking" 3 guys (RDE, ROLB, and RILB). Carter has backside contain, and kinda does what he's supposed to do.

ok, now the 3rd pic:

PICTURE 3:





Huge gap, McFadden busts through it. Of note:

1. Lawrence Timmons and Chris Carter are being blocked by Veldheer. Timmons should be meeting DMac at the 40. Instead, he went the long way around and is toast.

2. Casey Hampton is watching Darren McFadden run up his inside gap because Stefan Wisniewski owned him 1v1

3. Note how there is ZERO gap on the right side? The stretch was contained. Woodley, Ziggy, and Foote took on their 3 blockers and completely shut that gap.

1. Again, back to #1. Note how 2 guys (LG, LT) are blocking 3 guys (RDE, ROLB, and RILB)?

Not that I am worth anything more than anybody else, but this play rests on 3 huge issues

1. Snack got owned 1v1. He provides no pass rush. He's a space eater who is supposed to absorb 2 blockers. He got OWNED 1v1. He will continue to get owned 1v1 vs. a smart ZBS.
2. Timmons was inexplicably so far out of position. The gap that McFadden ran through was SUPPOSED to be filled by the RILB, aka Timmons.
3. Keisel getting sealed so effectively. That's Cooper Carlisle erasing Keisel. Cooper. Carlisle.
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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then Mundy missed the open field tackle.

We didn't lose that game because of one successful run play. Our defense did not defend against the pass well at all.

One of the rumored knocks on Timmons in the draft was that he was not smart enough to make the move from OLB to ILB but after he got the starting job he did pretty darned well.

Now, I think it's just that he doesn't really care whether we win or lose since he already has the money. It's like he's trying to make it look like he's trying as he runs by and just reaches out for the RB or QB or whoever instead of dropping his hips down and shifting his direction to make the tackle.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing annoys me more than big runs, especially when they are as preventable as that one seems to be.

Nice breakdown.

That third picture makes me laugh. Mundy, even in that one frame, looks completely and utterly clueless. That angle had to be one of the worst angles Ive ever seen a player take. (maybe not EVER, but in recent memory)
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

43, agreed regarding Mundy, but let's be real. He is a replacement-level backup. Darren McFadden is realistically one of the best RBs in the NFL. If McFadden CAN'T beat Mundy in open field like that, then McFadden should be ashamed.
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steelcurtain29


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure what was worse. The fact that Mundy got completely owned by a simple juke, or Timmons making the dumbest move on the ball that I've ever seen. What was Timmons thinking?

Also, where was Clark on this play? I didn't / don't see him.

Not to sound overreacting, but when I saw Hampton leave that huge gap, the first thought I had was that this would be the last season we'll see him. He's been average so far.
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steelcurtain29 wrote:
I'm not sure what was worse. The fact that Mundy got completely owned by a simple juke, or Timmons making the dumbest move on the ball that I've ever seen. What was Timmons thinking?

Also, where was Clark on this play? I didn't / don't see him.

Not to sound overreacting, but when I saw Hampton leave that huge gap, the first thought I had was that this would be the last season we'll see him. He's been average so far.


re: Mundy - yes, he got juked by Darren McFadden. McFadden's an elite back. Mundy is barely NFL-backup material. Good safeties will get owned by McFadden. That's what he does.

re: Timmons - he was on a run blitz. The problem is that he stopped, recognized it was a run, and STILL continued to go outside Keisel

re: Clark - he was in coverage, split left

re: Hampton - he hasn't been average. He's been bad.
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steelcurtain29 wrote:
I'm not sure what was worse. The fact that Mundy got completely owned by a simple juke, or Timmons making the dumbest move on the ball that I've ever seen. What was Timmons thinking?

Also, where was Clark on this play? I didn't / don't see him.

Not to sound overreacting, but when I saw Hampton leave that huge gap, the first thought I had was that this would be the last season we'll see him. He's been average so far.


re: Mundy - yes, he got juked by Darren McFadden. McFadden's an elite back. Mundy is barely NFL-backup material. Good safeties will get owned by McFadden. That's what he does.

re: Timmons - he was on a run blitz. The problem is that he stopped, recognized it was a run, and STILL continued to go outside Keisel

re: Clark - he was in coverage, split left

re: Hampton - he hasn't been average. He's been bad.
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SMashMouthMike


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tape doesn't lie. Hampton is mostly done. Keisel is done. These 2 guys have to be wave or situational players only. Gotta fix this front 7 proto kimosabi. Thanks for posting this.
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mosteelers


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually missed this play, so I am at a disadvantage not seeing it live, but there are some things wrong with your breakdown.

1. Notice we are balanced. I am assuming that since we are balanced and the Raiders are not. Snack is supposed to play harder to the strong side. I don't know, but this is usually how the two gap system works. Notice how Farrior goes to the outside of the OT. This is his job and the NT and DE/DT (in this case) play to the strong side gap. Snack doesn't get knocked off the LOS and maintains his gap integrity. He can play to the strong side A gap but doesn't commit yet because the back is cutting the play back.

2. I don't know about Timmons and the run blitz but if he isn't on a blitz he is clearly wrong (like you said).

3. The LG and LT do NOT have the DE and OLB on a stretch play away. They have the DE and ILB on the back side. Since Timmons runs to his right the LG motors down to block him. In this case, every offense in the world on the play would leave the backside OLB alone.

4. Which leads me to my point. IF Timmons is on a blitz. Then either this is a horrible call, because there is no one for backside A gap, or someone in the secondary didn't do their job covering up the backside A gap and Keisel did a horrible job not covering the B gap.
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, GREAT analysis Kethy!! Always one of the top posters on this board. I wonder if didn't trust Keisel to do his job, so he went up right behind him? What in the world would ever make you do that? I wish our run blocking could be this effective, though we do run a different scheme. Granted it was one play, but we never break out of any runs, unless we bounce it to the outside. Well, good thing next game we will have 2 qualities safeties back there. IMO, Foote and Clark are playing above the line, especially compared to what I expected from them. Kethy, do you think McLendon should be getting more snaps than Casey now?
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mosteelers wrote:
I actually missed this play, so I am at a disadvantage not seeing it live, but there are some things wrong with your breakdown.

1. Notice we are balanced. I am assuming that since we are balanced and the Raiders are not. Snack is supposed to play harder to the strong side. I don't know, but this is usually how the two gap system works. Notice how Farrior goes to the outside of the OT. This is his job and the NT and DE/DT (in this case) play to the strong side gap. Snack doesn't get knocked off the LOS and maintains his gap integrity. He can play to the strong side A gap but doesn't commit yet because the back is cutting the play back.


it was a zone stretch. You move down the line and keep your shoulders square. Problem is, you need to be able to stop that cutback, and Hampton doesn't. He didn't maintain gap control because he was being controlled.
i assume by 'farrior' you meant 'foote', and I said that he did his job perfectly

mosteelers wrote:
3. The LG and LT do NOT have the DE and OLB on a stretch play away. They have the DE and ILB on the back side. Since Timmons runs to his right the LG motors down to block him. In this case, every offense in the world on the play would leave the backside OLB alone.


except the ILB came around the backside. If Timmons comes through the hole, guess what? That's 2 bodies filling the gap that McFadden ran through. Since Timmons went around the LT to the outside, Brisiel and Veldheer basically had to stand there and wall everybody off, rather than take on anybody at the point of attack

mosteelers wrote:
4. Which leads me to my point. IF Timmons is on a blitz. Then either this is a horrible call, because there is no one for backside A gap, or someone in the secondary didn't do their job covering up the backside A gap and Keisel did a horrible job not covering the B gap.


agreed with you there mo.

Timmons was definitely blitzing. Rewatched multiple times. problem is that Palmer audibled out of the play to a run play, and everybody on the defense seemed to know it except Timmons. Even after visually seeing McFadden get the ball and go to his right, Timmons STILL went around LT, away from the play.

McClendon is a 1-gap guy, purely. Right now, Casey Hampton offers nothing in the way of run support or pass rush

I only finished the first quarter of the all-22, and I had Wisniewski stoning him 1v1 on 3 plays, and shutting him down on the 4th play. Those are all 1v1 in the first quarter. It was quite obvious they didn't feel the need to double Snack much.

it is also quite plain to me that Keisel is stealing a paycheck. Veldheer absolutely ate him alive, about as badly as Wisniewski owned Hampton.
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steelcurtain29


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
re: Mundy - yes, he got juked by Darren McFadden. McFadden's an elite back. Mundy is barely NFL-backup material. Good safeties will get owned by McFadden. That's what he does.


True, but if he knew Clark was to his left; why not force McFadden that way?

kethnaab wrote:
re: Timmons - he was on a run blitz. The problem is that he stopped, recognized it was a run, and STILL continued to go outside Keisel


Why was he coming off the edge, regardless? He should know from his own experience that he can not do that.

kethnaab wrote:
re: Clark - he was in coverage, split left


Biggest question mark of the entire play. He should have been coming in from the SS spot (like Troy) and helped. I don't even see him in any of the photos. Was he that far outside?

kethnaab wrote:
re: Hampton - he hasn't been average. He's been bad.


I was trying to be nice. Guess I was being too nice. How soon until Ta'amu is ready? Crying or Very sad
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I deleted the game cause I couldn't stomach to watch and actually I need the room on my DVR for college games.

As far as I could tell as the play happened, the gap was most likely Timmons responsibility or a read responsibility and he so overcommitted/bit to the left that he got caught behind the defender being blocked in front of him. That should've never happened to that degree, its almost unexplainable. Getting caught up a little ok, but to the point that you eliminate yourself from the play? I'd really like to know why a MLB is either so committed to a gap that he cant react to the ball or why he's soo overreacting/overcommitting/biting on the action. Its pretty sad for someone at this level and experience. Its either reckless or just a lack of awareness/understanding of how to play the position. Perhaps theres an explanation in scheme I just don't get but ummm, no matter, a LB's instincts and playmaking ability, especially a MLB, should override any of that.

If he was run blitzing the other gap he was soo late and did a horrible job at that as well.

Mundy just took a horrible angle.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
43, agreed regarding Mundy, but let's be real. He is a replacement-level backup. Darren McFadden is realistically one of the best RBs in the NFL. If McFadden CAN'T beat Mundy in open field like that, then McFadden should be ashamed.


No doubt, but this isnt simply about DMac beating him, but Mundy taking a laughably bad angle.
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The Curtain


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mundy is awful. Can talk about how DMac should of won that battle, but there's an opportunity for an unproven player to step up and make a play. He was embarrassed, instead.

That's an interesting analysis though, I appreciate it. Would love to see this every week for a key play or two.
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