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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22108
Location: ATL
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 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| TiberiusRising wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | Totty wrote: | | raidr4life wrote: | | Bo_Spice wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | r8der14 wrote: | | Sign Jake Long now that we have sparano, bounce veldheer to right tackle, and trade down and draft warmack and we have the most dominate line in the league! |
While this seems unreasonable, it's the making of a damn good line haha |
Long - Warmack - Wiz - Nix? - Veldheer
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Long - Wiz - Parsons - Warmack - Veldheer  |
Boing, yoing, yoing, yoing, yoing.  |
Long is a serious health risk. No thanks. Assuming his measureables check out, Joeckel is the ONLY prospect I would even consider moving Veldheer for. Long is a shell of himself. Parsons at C? Ug! Moving Wiz back to LG where he really wasn't that good isn't a good move either. Wiz would be just another guy at LG but has serious potential at C. |
I would let Joeckel or Fisher fight for a job with Veldheer at LT.
As for OC I would prefer we get a guy like Quesenberry who can play OG/OC. Huge uprade over Parsons. Then let Wiz and Quesenberry fight for OC and the other ones moves to LG.
Long is a possiblity just because he is in a buy low state right now and may not want to return to MIA. I was not aware of his health risks though? I know he missed only 6 games in his career. Four of them last season with a torn triceps which would not be worriesome. |
Why is everyone crowning this guy now? Did I miss something?
Is this just senior bowl practice hype? How was he on game day through his college career?
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TiberiusRising
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8497
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:13 am Post subject: |
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I actually went back and watched some of their games and he was always a good player. So playing up to the level of competition is a plus. Also having versatility to play all 3 positions is huge.
He had all the basics down as well. Obvously work needs to be done. But he was always bending, good hands, patient, and seemed to take what they were teaching him and applied it immediatley.
I would take him with our 4th round pick for sure. Maybe higher if we were able to trade into the backend of the 3rd.
Here are the OG's I can think of
Warmack
Cooper
Jones
Thomas
Warford
Bailey
Quesnberry/Winters +/- |
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raidr4life
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 3723
Location: Fresno, California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | Totty wrote: | | raidr4life wrote: | | Bo_Spice wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | r8der14 wrote: | | Sign Jake Long now that we have sparano, bounce veldheer to right tackle, and trade down and draft warmack and we have the most dominate line in the league! |
While this seems unreasonable, it's the making of a damn good line haha |
Long - Warmack - Wiz - Nix? - Veldheer
|
Long - Wiz - Parsons - Warmack - Veldheer |
Boing, yoing, yoing, yoing, yoing. |
Long is a serious health risk. No thanks. Assuming his measureables check out, Joeckel is the ONLY prospect I would even consider moving Veldheer for. Long is a shell of himself. Parsons at C? Ug! Moving Wiz back to LG where he really wasn't that good isn't a good move either. Wiz would be just another guy at LG but has serious potential at C. |
What? Wiz played at a high level at LG, him and Veldheer were a dominate left side, Wiz even won player of the week as a guard and was in the running in other weeks, to say he wasnt that good is a false statement. |
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5349
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing against Myers (I hope we resign him on the cheap) but say he walks, how much do you think Keller would cost? His numbers have been hampered in NY and I could see him moving on to a team with a better QB situation.
Keller's salary topped out under $4M, considering he hasnt done much to boost that IMO, I could see him seeking similar money in the offseason. I could see Myers getting somewhere around $3M/year, considering thats less than guys like Boss and Carleson got. Would you guys want Keller for (potentially) $1M less than Myers might cost?
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| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
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JTagg7754
Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11573
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ZoomWaffle wrote: | Nothing against Myers (I hope we resign him on the cheap) but say he walks, how much do you think Keller would cost? His numbers have been hampered in NY and I could see him moving on to a team with a better QB situation.
Keller's salary topped out under $4M, considering he hasnt done much to boost that IMO, I could see him seeking similar money in the offseason. I could see Myers getting somewhere around $3M/year, considering thats less than guys like Boss and Carleson got. Would you guys want Keller for (potentially) $1M less than Myers might cost? |
I suggested Keller in my off-season mock and people thought he'd come at a hefty price. I don't see it but it's the reception I received.....
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5349
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| JTagg7754 wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | Nothing against Myers (I hope we resign him on the cheap) but say he walks, how much do you think Keller would cost? His numbers have been hampered in NY and I could see him moving on to a team with a better QB situation.
Keller's salary topped out under $4M, considering he hasnt done much to boost that IMO, I could see him seeking similar money in the offseason. I could see Myers getting somewhere around $3M/year, considering thats less than guys like Boss and Carleson got. Would you guys want Keller for (potentially) $1M less than Myers might cost? |
I suggested Keller in my off-season mock and people thought he'd come at a hefty price. I don't see it but it's the reception I received..... |
I can see it going either way. He is far from a gifted athlete who hans t translated that onto the field, but he hasnt exactly done great things, either. His QB has a lot to do with that, so that will surely factor into a team's view on him.
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| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5479
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| raidr4life wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | Totty wrote: | | raidr4life wrote: | | Bo_Spice wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | r8der14 wrote: | | Sign Jake Long now that we have sparano, bounce veldheer to right tackle, and trade down and draft warmack and we have the most dominate line in the league! |
While this seems unreasonable, it's the making of a damn good line haha |
Long - Warmack - Wiz - Nix? - Veldheer
|
Long - Wiz - Parsons - Warmack - Veldheer |
Boing, yoing, yoing, yoing, yoing. |
Long is a serious health risk. No thanks. Assuming his measureables check out, Joeckel is the ONLY prospect I would even consider moving Veldheer for. Long is a shell of himself. Parsons at C? Ug! Moving Wiz back to LG where he really wasn't that good isn't a good move either. Wiz would be just another guy at LG but has serious potential at C. |
What? Wiz played at a high level at LG, him and Veldheer were a dominate left side, Wiz even won player of the week as a guard and was in the running in other weeks, to say he wasnt that good is a false statement. |
The correct stat that you are referring to is the 2011 efficiency of the Raiders PBS running game when left which is significantly different than Wiz's individual 2011 grade per game which was -4.6 in 13 starts at LG for 51st of 78 qualifying OGs.
This backs up my point that you don't need dominate OG play in order to be effective in any one dimension of offense. Let's not rewrite history. Wiz is significantly more effective at OC. Those are the facts. If the Raiders cut Brisiel, who is now miscast, they can give the $4M they were prepared to give to Brisiel to PBS LG Incognito (24th of 81 ranked OGs; +7.8 season grade), who will be a cap casualty.
Veldheer - Incognito - Wiz. Boom!
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Raiders 2014 Draft (check out my draft review tell me what you think)
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14111
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ZoomWaffle wrote: | Nothing against Myers (I hope we resign him on the cheap) but say he walks, how much do you think Keller would cost? His numbers have been hampered in NY and I could see him moving on to a team with a better QB situation.
Keller's salary topped out under $4M, considering he hasnt done much to boost that IMO, I could see him seeking similar money in the offseason. I could see Myers getting somewhere around $3M/year, considering thats less than guys like Boss and Carleson got. Would you guys want Keller for (potentially) $1M less than Myers might cost? |
Going with a PBS and an OC who hasn't shown the same penchant for overusing his TEs as Greg Knapp, letting Myers go seems like a good option to me. If we could give half of his targets to players who could actually make something happen after the catch (Marcel Reece for example), we'd probably be better off. And his subpar run blocking doesn't help his case.
Speaking of TEs, i wouldn't be surprised if Anthony Fasano was signed due to his connection with Sparano and his blocking ability.
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raidr4life
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 3723
Location: Fresno, California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | raidr4life wrote: | | Baggabonez wrote: | | Totty wrote: | | raidr4life wrote: | | Bo_Spice wrote: | | JTagg7754 wrote: | | r8der14 wrote: | | Sign Jake Long now that we have sparano, bounce veldheer to right tackle, and trade down and draft warmack and we have the most dominate line in the league! |
While this seems unreasonable, it's the making of a damn good line haha |
Long - Warmack - Wiz - Nix? - Veldheer
|
Long - Wiz - Parsons - Warmack - Veldheer |
Boing, yoing, yoing, yoing, yoing. |
Long is a serious health risk. No thanks. Assuming his measureables check out, Joeckel is the ONLY prospect I would even consider moving Veldheer for. Long is a shell of himself. Parsons at C? Ug! Moving Wiz back to LG where he really wasn't that good isn't a good move either. Wiz would be just another guy at LG but has serious potential at C. |
What? Wiz played at a high level at LG, him and Veldheer were a dominate left side, Wiz even won player of the week as a guard and was in the running in other weeks, to say he wasnt that good is a false statement. |
The correct stat that you are referring to is the 2011 efficiency of the Raiders PBS running game when left which is significantly different than Wiz's individual 2011 grade per game which was -4.6 in 13 starts at LG for 51st of 78 qualifying OGs.
This backs up my point that you don't need dominate OG play in order to be effective in any one dimension of offense. Let's not rewrite history. Wiz is significantly more effective at OC. Those are the facts. If the Raiders cut Brisiel, who is now miscast, they can give the $4M they were prepared to give to Brisiel to PBS LG Incognito (24th of 81 ranked OGs; +7.8 season grade), who will be a cap casualty.
Veldheer - Incognito - Wiz. Boom! |
Ha! That makes sense. Well played worthy adversary.  |
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BlackWidow
Joined: 03 May 2012
Posts: 436
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: |
Why is everyone crowning this guy now? Did I miss something?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYKIcnj1MJY&sns=em
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[quote="RaidersAreOne"]BlackWidow is a chick? Everything makes so much more sense all of a sudden.[/quote] |
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DOCLEW 28
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 10883
Location: East Oakland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | This backs up my point that you don't need dominate OG play in order to be effective in any one dimension of offense. |
This may be so in a lot of cases. But just think if you DID have dominant OG's to flank Wiz at OC?
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DOCLEW 28
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 10883
Location: East Oakland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | Nothing against Myers (I hope we resign him on the cheap) but say he walks, how much do you think Keller would cost? His numbers have been hampered in NY and I could see him moving on to a team with a better QB situation.
Keller's salary topped out under $4M, considering he hasnt done much to boost that IMO, I could see him seeking similar money in the offseason. I could see Myers getting somewhere around $3M/year, considering thats less than guys like Boss and Carleson got. Would you guys want Keller for (potentially) $1M less than Myers might cost? |
Going with a PBS and an OC who hasn't shown the same penchant for overusing his TEs as Greg Knapp, letting Myers go seems like a good option to me. If we could give half of his targets to players who could actually make something happen after the catch (Marcel Reece for example), we'd probably be better off. And his subpar run blocking doesn't help his case.
Speaking of TEs, i wouldn't be surprised if Anthony Fasano was signed due to his connection with Sparano and his blocking ability. |
I really don't see where it hurts to try and keep a guy who moves the chains on a consistant basis. Just because he is not lightening in a bottle once he catches it is no real reason to let him walk. There is definitely something to be said about a guy that continues to get you first downs.
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14111
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| DOCLEW 28 wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | ZoomWaffle wrote: | Nothing against Myers (I hope we resign him on the cheap) but say he walks, how much do you think Keller would cost? His numbers have been hampered in NY and I could see him moving on to a team with a better QB situation.
Keller's salary topped out under $4M, considering he hasnt done much to boost that IMO, I could see him seeking similar money in the offseason. I could see Myers getting somewhere around $3M/year, considering thats less than guys like Boss and Carleson got. Would you guys want Keller for (potentially) $1M less than Myers might cost? |
Going with a PBS and an OC who hasn't shown the same penchant for overusing his TEs as Greg Knapp, letting Myers go seems like a good option to me. If we could give half of his targets to players who could actually make something happen after the catch (Marcel Reece for example), we'd probably be better off. And his subpar run blocking doesn't help his case.
Speaking of TEs, i wouldn't be surprised if Anthony Fasano was signed due to his connection with Sparano and his blocking ability. |
I really don't see where it hurts to try and keep a guy who moves the chains on a consistant basis. Just because he is not lightening in a bottle once he catches it is no real reason to let him walk. There is definitely something to be said about a guy that continues to get you first downs. |
Because i think his production was a direct result of Knapp's offense. So i guess i worded it wrong, i just don't see him as a high priority to re-sign.
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| Plush wrote: | | Papa was a trolling stone |
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IDOG_det
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 22927
Location: Ron Paul 2012 #JDI
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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A few questions. How much do you expect Wheeler to get in FA? What would it cost to get DHB?
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Chali21
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 2795
Location: Cali
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| IDOG_det wrote: | | A few questions. How much do you expect Wheeler to get in FA? What would it cost to get DHB? |
Wheeler has been pretty average here in Oakland, he won't be expensive.
I'm sure we'd let DHB go for a 5th or 6th. |
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