Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Free Agency Thread - V 3.0
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15 ... 77, 78, 79  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 32172
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
Long term? If the oline fails to improve next year it might be the last we see of Allen. And the a new coach will come in and change everything again. No we need short term success and then build the depth up.


d'oh!

If he works out long term, then it doesn't matter who's coaching the team. Would Matt Kalil be bad pick if Leslie Frazier got fired after this season?
_________________

ravens_rool28 wrote:
Did somebody mention teens?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5349
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
I'm starting to go against the move Veldher line of thinking. It was crystal clear from last night's game, Veldheer and Wisniewski can be sound, while Carlisle, Brisiel and Barnes just perform a littany of mistakes.

Now I am not saying Veldheer is great, I just think if you address and replace 3 line positions you sure don't need to add a 4th change in there. Moving him will just make a transition to a line with 3 new players even harder. At the very least Carlisle and Barnes must be replaced, as Brisiel might survive because of his contract. So once again, just like this past year, is it reasonable to expect the line to be successful if you make changes to 4 of the 5 players on it in one year? We did it this year with 3 changes, 4 if you count the extended time Willie Smith saw, and look at the result. A unit that looked really, really bad for a long portion of the season. Not only that but a unit that was better than this before the changes were made.

Too many changes on the line make it worse than it actually is. Leave Veldheer where he is and put someone at the other tackle and guard positions. Same goes for Wisnieski, he's just now getting comfortable. Leave him where he is. It makes sense, they're our best linemen, leave them where they are fix the problems. Don't fix your strengths even if they're not perfect, fix your weaknesses then worry about improving strengths.


Only way I'd consider Joeckel is if Moore and Star are gone. There's such a steep drop off after those 2. And Veldheer, while solid, just hasn't been able to contain the better pass rushers.


Same here. I want Star, but if he is gone Joekel is fine by me. Like oakdb said, our defense needs a pass rusher, a DT, and some DBs before it is solid, our offensive line needs one really good T to make it solid, and another G would make it a good line.
_________________


Silver&Black88 on the sig

La_Vader wrote:
I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14565
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
I'm starting to go against the move Veldher line of thinking. It was crystal clear from last night's game, Veldheer and Wisniewski can be sound, while Carlisle, Brisiel and Barnes just perform a littany of mistakes.

Now I am not saying Veldheer is great, I just think if you address and replace 3 line positions you sure don't need to add a 4th change in there. Moving him will just make a transition to a line with 3 new players even harder. At the very least Carlisle and Barnes must be replaced, as Brisiel might survive because of his contract. So once again, just like this past year, is it reasonable to expect the line to be successful if you make changes to 4 of the 5 players on it in one year? We did it this year with 3 changes, 4 if you count the extended time Willie Smith saw, and look at the result. A unit that looked really, really bad for a long portion of the season. Not only that but a unit that was better than this before the changes were made.

Too many changes on the line make it worse than it actually is. Leave Veldheer where he is and put someone at the other tackle and guard positions. Same goes for Wisnieski, he's just now getting comfortable. Leave him where he is. It makes sense, they're our best linemen, leave them where they are fix the problems. Don't fix your strengths even if they're not perfect, fix your weaknesses then worry about improving strengths.


agree.

i dont know about drafting a LT and moving him to RT. isnt that exactly what we did with gallery? then we tried to move him back to LT and we all know how that worked out.
_________________


green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 2794
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Long term? If the oline fails to improve next year it might be the last we see of Allen. And the a new coach will come in and change everything again. No we need short term success and then build the depth up.


d'oh!

If he works out long term, then it doesn't matter who's coaching the team. Would Matt Kalil be bad pick if Leslie Frazier got fired after this season?


Do they run the Zone? If they do then you're right but what I've heard is teams that run the zone take awhile to be good because the line all has to gel together. All I'm saying is if we shake the line up will we be slowing down their growth?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11563
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:

If possible, I wouldn't mind finding a decent C, pushing Wiz back to G, getting Carlisle out of here and picking up a RT. IMO, that would do wonders for our line even if the RT and C are just "decent". It would be enough to upgrade.


I'd keep Wiz at C. I see no reason to switch him back to G.


I just thought I saw more of him last year than this season. The scheme might have something to do w/ that so essentially you could be right. I just thought he played better at G than he has at C.
_________________


PM sig requests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11563
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:

If possible, I wouldn't mind finding a decent C, pushing Wiz back to G, getting Carlisle out of here and picking up a RT. IMO, that would do wonders for our line even if the RT and C are just "decent". It would be enough to upgrade.


I'd keep Wiz at C. I see no reason to switch him back to G.


then we need a cheap FA guard or Bergstrom to step up


I don't know about cheap but we need a G.

LT - Veldheer
LG - Levitre
OC - Wiz
RG - Briesel/Bergstrom
RT - ?/Bergstrom


The makings of a solid, young line right there. If we do pick high and someone wants our spot that bad and we can accumulate a 2nd rounder and grab someone like Dallas Thomas, I'd be ecstatic.
_________________


PM sig requests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5479
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:

If possible, I wouldn't mind finding a decent C, pushing Wiz back to G, getting Carlisle out of here and picking up a RT. IMO, that would do wonders for our line even if the RT and C are just "decent". It would be enough to upgrade.


I'd keep Wiz at C. I see no reason to switch him back to G.


+1

WOW! Talking up Levitre and backing keeping Wiz at OC? Get outta my head! Don't forget to add that Levitre is considered THE ZBS LG in FA in 2013. He could come cheaper than you think because the Bills could replace him in the draft and his ZBS suitors in FA could be a small pool.
_________________
Raiders 2014 Draft (check out my draft review tell me what you think)
Mancrush 2014: DE Clowney, WR Watkins, OT Robinson, LB Shazier, FS Brooks, TE ASJ, OG Jackson, WR Janis, OT Lucas, OT Tiny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5479
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:

If possible, I wouldn't mind finding a decent C, pushing Wiz back to G, getting Carlisle out of here and picking up a RT. IMO, that would do wonders for our line even if the RT and C are just "decent". It would be enough to upgrade.


I'd keep Wiz at C. I see no reason to switch him back to G.


then we need a cheap FA guard or Bergstrom to step up


I don't know about cheap but we need a G.

LT - Veldheer
LG - Levitre
OC - Wiz
RG - Briesel/Bergstrom
RT - ?/Bergstrom


That left side would be fierce. Veldheer struggles with speed rushers, but he's a sound LT for the most part.

How would you feel adding one of the premier LT's in the draft? Starting him at RT perhaps then moving to LT if Veldheer isn't cutting it? Bergstrom can swing T/G if he can't beat our Briesel.


I'm kinda of struggling with this swing RG/RT concept. Can you indentify someone currently in this role so I have a comparison? It has been my experience that while there are OGs that can play RT in a serious pinch it's definitely not the assigned role one typically finds. I've found that usually when a guy is converted from OG to OT it's because a collegiate OT to NFL OG conversion has failed (ie: Bruce Campbell) and is a SERIOUS red flag to future prospects.
_________________
Raiders 2014 Draft (check out my draft review tell me what you think)
Mancrush 2014: DE Clowney, WR Watkins, OT Robinson, LB Shazier, FS Brooks, TE ASJ, OG Jackson, WR Janis, OT Lucas, OT Tiny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 20146
Location: Crown Town, CA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Veldheer is OK at LT. Hasn't been a good year. You only move him to RT if you can land somebody better. Really depends on the options at RT in Free Agency.
_________________

SaveourSonics wrote:
Yea, RaiderX wins. We can all just top acting like this is a matter of opinion. MY GOD.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Preacher


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 820
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dreadymatt wrote:
Bengals just cut Jeff Faine - very talent centre (we could move Wiz back to guard, instantly improving the OL) - he isn't injured or anything, just lost his starting sport, at 31 though surely can add value for a few years


i have been wondering if Wiz and Veeldher (sp) would be a better left side than Wiz working at Center. i think it's Faine, would be a good pick up.
_________________

Thanks JTJagg7754

There is good and evil, choose good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Preacher


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 820
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy thought....if Carson P retires.

Do we want to pick up Alex Smith from the 49's?
_________________

Thanks JTJagg7754

There is good and evil, choose good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 6477
Location: CA-TX
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
Veldheer is OK at LT. Hasn't been a good year. You only move him to RT if you can land somebody better. Really depends on the options at RT in Free Agency.


Why's that? We pass the ball 41 times per game. Good for 3rd most in the league. We run the ball 21 times per game. Good for last in the league.

How many sacks and holding penalties has JV accounted for? On top of having the most one dimensional offense in the league, we have one of the least mobile QB's as well. JV has the hardest LT job in the league in only his 3rd season, yet he's more then holding his own.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 32172
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Veldheer is OK at LT. Hasn't been a good year. You only move him to RT if you can land somebody better. Really depends on the options at RT in Free Agency.


Why's that? We pass the ball 41 times per game. Good for 3rd most in the league. We run the ball 21 times per game. Good for last in the league.

How many sacks and holding penalties has JV accounted for? On top of having the most one dimensional offense in the league, we have one of the least mobile QB's as well. JV has the hardest LT job in the league in only his 3rd season, yet he's more then holding his own.


Ehhh, let's not get crazy. He doesn't surrender a lot of sacks or hold a lot but he let's up a good amount of pressure.
_________________

ravens_rool28 wrote:
Did somebody mention teens?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 6477
Location: CA-TX
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Veldheer is OK at LT. Hasn't been a good year. You only move him to RT if you can land somebody better. Really depends on the options at RT in Free Agency.


Why's that? We pass the ball 41 times per game. Good for 3rd most in the league. We run the ball 21 times per game. Good for last in the league.

How many sacks and holding penalties has JV accounted for? On top of having the most one dimensional offense in the league, we have one of the least mobile QB's as well. JV has the hardest LT job in the league in only his 3rd season, yet he's more then holding his own.


Ehhh, let's not get crazy. He doesn't surrender a lot of sacks or hold a lot but he let's up a good amount of pressure.


How am I getting crazy? We have the most one dimensional offense in the league. Of course he's going to let up some pressure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 20146
Location: Crown Town, CA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
Veldheer is OK at LT. Hasn't been a good year. You only move him to RT if you can land somebody better. Really depends on the options at RT in Free Agency.


Why's that? We pass the ball 41 times per game. Good for 3rd most in the league. We run the ball 21 times per game. Good for last in the league.

How many sacks and holding penalties has JV accounted for? On top of having the most one dimensional offense in the league, we have one of the least mobile QB's as well. JV has the hardest LT job in the league in only his 3rd season, yet he's more then holding his own.


Ehhh, let's not get crazy. He doesn't surrender a lot of sacks or hold a lot but he let's up a good amount of pressure.


Somebody recently put up a stat of how many yards we rush for for each direction (to the left, up the middle, to the right) and the left side had the lowest. His run blocking has been an issue when you watch him. Part of it is he's not a fit for the ZBS. Veldheer has given up a few sacks At least 5 and gave up that fumble in Atlanta. He's ok, nothing special at LT. Struggles with speed rushers which is why I think he'll be a better fit on the right side, but only if we can find THE guy at LT.
_________________

SaveourSonics wrote:
Yea, RaiderX wins. We can all just top acting like this is a matter of opinion. MY GOD.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15 ... 77, 78, 79  Next
Page 14 of 79

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group