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Silver&Black88

Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24560
Location: Rochester, NY

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject:

Chali21 wrote:

Long term? If the oline fails to improve next year it might be the last we see of Allen. And the a new coach will come in and change everything again. No we need short term success and then build the depth up.

If he works out long term, then it doesn't matter who's coaching the team. Would Matt Kalil be bad pick if Leslie Frazier got fired after this season?
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husker_vikes3 wrote:

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ZoomWaffle

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4567
Location: AZ

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

holyghost wrote:

I'm starting to go against the move Veldher line of thinking. It was crystal clear from last night's game, Veldheer and Wisniewski can be sound, while Carlisle, Brisiel and Barnes just perform a littany of mistakes.

Now I am not saying Veldheer is great, I just think if you address and replace 3 line positions you sure don't need to add a 4th change in there. Moving him will just make a transition to a line with 3 new players even harder. At the very least Carlisle and Barnes must be replaced, as Brisiel might survive because of his contract. So once again, just like this past year, is it reasonable to expect the line to be successful if you make changes to 4 of the 5 players on it in one year? We did it this year with 3 changes, 4 if you count the extended time Willie Smith saw, and look at the result. A unit that looked really, really bad for a long portion of the season. Not only that but a unit that was better than this before the changes were made.

Too many changes on the line make it worse than it actually is. Leave Veldheer where he is and put someone at the other tackle and guard positions. Same goes for Wisnieski, he's just now getting comfortable. Leave him where he is. It makes sense, they're our best linemen, leave them where they are fix the problems. Don't fix your strengths even if they're not perfect, fix your weaknesses then worry about improving strengths.

Only way I'd consider Joeckel is if Moore and Star are gone. There's such a steep drop off after those 2. And Veldheer, while solid, just hasn't been able to contain the better pass rushers.

Same here. I want Star, but if he is gone Joekel is fine by me. Like oakdb said, our defense needs a pass rusher, a DT, and some DBs before it is solid, our offensive line needs one really good T to make it solid, and another G would make it a good line.
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La_Vader wrote:

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NCOUGHMAN

Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12570
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject:

holyghost wrote:

agree.

i dont know about drafting a LT and moving him to RT. isnt that exactly what we did with gallery? then we tried to move him back to LT and we all know how that worked out.
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green24 wrote:

NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you

Chali21

Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1707
Location: Cali

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

Chali21 wrote:

If he works out long term, then it doesn't matter who's coaching the team. Would Matt Kalil be bad pick if Leslie Frazier got fired after this season?

Do they run the Zone? If they do then you're right but what I've heard is teams that run the zone take awhile to be good because the line all has to gel together. All I'm saying is if we shake the line up will we be slowing down their growth?

JTagg7754

Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7221
Location: Somewhere in Ohio

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject:

oakdb36 wrote:

JTagg7754 wrote:

If possible, I wouldn't mind finding a decent C, pushing Wiz back to G, getting Carlisle out of here and picking up a RT. IMO, that would do wonders for our line even if the RT and C are just "decent". It would be enough to upgrade.

I'd keep Wiz at C. I see no reason to switch him back to G.

I just thought I saw more of him last year than this season. The scheme might have something to do w/ that so essentially you could be right. I just thought he played better at G than he has at C.
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NCOUGHMAN wrote:

Quote:

you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs?

not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them

JTagg7754

Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 7221
Location: Somewhere in Ohio

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:40 pm Post subject:

oakdb36 wrote:

Dreadymatt wrote:

oakdb36 wrote:

JTagg7754 wrote:

I'd keep Wiz at C. I see no reason to switch him back to G.

then we need a cheap FA guard or Bergstrom to step up

I don't know about cheap but we need a G.

LT - Veldheer
LG - Levitre
OC - Wiz
RG - Briesel/Bergstrom
RT - ?/Bergstrom

The makings of a solid, young line right there. If we do pick high and someone wants our spot that bad and we can accumulate a 2nd rounder and grab someone like Dallas Thomas, I'd be ecstatic.
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NCOUGHMAN wrote:

Quote:

you wouldnt want Rodgers Brady or Manning in his prime as your QBs?

not with the way the nfl is right now. id take a guy like kaep over them

Baggabonez

Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3746
Location: RaiderNation

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject:

oakdb36 wrote:

JTagg7754 wrote:

I'd keep Wiz at C. I see no reason to switch him back to G.

+1

WOW! Talking up Levitre and backing keeping Wiz at OC? Get outta my head! Don't forget to add that Levitre is considered THE ZBS LG in FA in 2013. He could come cheaper than you think because the Bills could replace him in the draft and his ZBS suitors in FA could be a small pool.
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Baggabonez

Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3746
Location: RaiderNation

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:42 pm Post subject:

big_palooka wrote:

oakdb36 wrote:

Dreadymatt wrote:

oakdb36 wrote:

JTagg7754 wrote:

I'd keep Wiz at C. I see no reason to switch him back to G.

then we need a cheap FA guard or Bergstrom to step up

I don't know about cheap but we need a G.

LT - Veldheer
LG - Levitre
OC - Wiz
RG - Briesel/Bergstrom
RT - ?/Bergstrom

That left side would be fierce. Veldheer struggles with speed rushers, but he's a sound LT for the most part.

How would you feel adding one of the premier LT's in the draft? Starting him at RT perhaps then moving to LT if Veldheer isn't cutting it? Bergstrom can swing T/G if he can't beat our Briesel.

I'm kinda of struggling with this swing RG/RT concept. Can you indentify someone currently in this role so I have a comparison? It has been my experience that while there are OGs that can play RT in a serious pinch it's definitely not the assigned role one typically finds. I've found that usually when a guy is converted from OG to OT it's because a collegiate OT to NFL OG conversion has failed (ie: Bruce Campbell) and is a SERIOUS red flag to future prospects.
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope

RaiderX

Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 17072
Location: Crown Town, CA

Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject:

Veldheer is OK at LT. Hasn't been a good year. You only move him to RT if you can land somebody better. Really depends on the options at RT in Free Agency.
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SaveourSonics wrote:

Yea, RaiderX wins. We can all just top acting like this is a matter of opinion. MY GOD.

Preacher

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 758

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject:

Dreadymatt wrote:

Bengals just cut Jeff Faine - very talent centre (we could move Wiz back to guard, instantly improving the OL) - he isn't injured or anything, just lost his starting sport, at 31 though surely can add value for a few years

i have been wondering if Wiz and Veeldher (sp) would be a better left side than Wiz working at Center. i think it's Faine, would be a good pick up.
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Preacher

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 758

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:20 pm Post subject:

Crazy thought....if Carson P retires.

Do we want to pick up Alex Smith from the 49's?
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Darkness

Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4153
Location: CA-TX

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject:

RaiderX wrote:

Veldheer is OK at LT. Hasn't been a good year. You only move him to RT if you can land somebody better. Really depends on the options at RT in Free Agency.

Why's that? We pass the ball 41 times per game. Good for 3rd most in the league. We run the ball 21 times per game. Good for last in the league.

How many sacks and holding penalties has JV accounted for? On top of having the most one dimensional offense in the league, we have one of the least mobile QB's as well. JV has the hardest LT job in the league in only his 3rd season, yet he's more then holding his own.
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candyman93 wrote:

Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders Laughing

Silver&Black88

Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24560
Location: Rochester, NY

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject:

Darkness wrote:

RaiderX wrote:

Veldheer is OK at LT. Hasn't been a good year. You only move him to RT if you can land somebody better. Really depends on the options at RT in Free Agency.

Ehhh, let's not get crazy. He doesn't surrender a lot of sacks or hold a lot but he let's up a good amount of pressure.
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husker_vikes3 wrote:

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Darkness

Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4153
Location: CA-TX

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

Darkness wrote:

RaiderX wrote:

Veldheer is OK at LT. Hasn't been a good year. You only move him to RT if you can land somebody better. Really depends on the options at RT in Free Agency.

Ehhh, let's not get crazy. He doesn't surrender a lot of sacks or hold a lot but he let's up a good amount of pressure.

How am I getting crazy? We have the most one dimensional offense in the league. Of course he's going to let up some pressure.
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candyman93 wrote:

Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders Laughing

RaiderX

Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 17072
Location: Crown Town, CA

Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject:

Silver&Black88 wrote:

Darkness wrote:

RaiderX wrote:

Veldheer is OK at LT. Hasn't been a good year. You only move him to RT if you can land somebody better. Really depends on the options at RT in Free Agency.

Ehhh, let's not get crazy. He doesn't surrender a lot of sacks or hold a lot but he let's up a good amount of pressure.

Somebody recently put up a stat of how many yards we rush for for each direction (to the left, up the middle, to the right) and the left side had the lowest. His run blocking has been an issue when you watch him. Part of it is he's not a fit for the ZBS. Veldheer has given up a few sacks At least 5 and gave up that fumble in Atlanta. He's ok, nothing special at LT. Struggles with speed rushers which is why I think he'll be a better fit on the right side, but only if we can find THE guy at LT.
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SaveourSonics wrote:

Yea, RaiderX wins. We can all just top acting like this is a matter of opinion. MY GOD.

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