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Gameday Thread: BAL Ravens vs. CLE Browns (W4)
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Which Ravens coordinator are we trashing the most after this game?
Dean Pees
25%
 25%  [ 4 ]
Cam Cameron
62%
 62%  [ 10 ]
Jerry Rosburg
12%
 12%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 16

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diamondbull424


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Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
In regards to Pees, I have no idea why we constantly see guys wide open in the middle of the field -- and by wide open I mean nobody even on the screen when they catch the ball. Is it a LB coverage issue? Scheme issue? Blown assignments? I just don't get it, but we get DESTROYED because of it.

Well the only logical answer appears to be that he's not disguising his blitz/coverages very well.

What good is a blitz if you're going to show where you're leaving yourself open. It's like what good is a giant nearly impenetrable suit of armor, if you've got a giant red spot on your suit that reads "WEAK HERE".

If he disguised things better QBs might not locate the holes as quickly. I think this is what we get when we go from having a coordinator who was a DBs coach who understood coverages at an elite level, to a LBers coach... whose only claim to fame is that he was a DC under Belichick. At least Rex was like, to hell with coverages. I'm just going to put my guys on an island, man on man, and blitz the hell out of you to get it done. Peas wants to do all of these pretty zone looks in coverage, but doesn't understand how to do them without leaving giant holes throughout. He should leave the more complex coverages to the professionals that are actually good at it.
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STrid


Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 976
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
STrid wrote:
Bla Bla Bla (My Post)

Welcome back. I was just thinking to myself where you and Dan were.

In terms of Pees, the difference between Pagano and him is that Pagano better understood the strengths of the players. For instance, Pees has our corners playing at least 10 yards off the ball on the vast majority of plays- sometimes they look ever deeper. One could see why he would do that against the fast burner type of WRs like we faced against the Eagles.

But why were we giving the Browns WRs so much of a cushion? Last year Cary Williams looked pretty darn competent at corner, he was aggressive at the line and had good coverage. This year however, we've removed part of his comfort zone and he's struggled mightily. Jimmy Smith has also proven to be a much more effective corner when pressing at the LOS.

Pees is setting our secondary players up for failure and not adjusting to their strengths. And with regards to the pass rush, I tend to agree that there isn't much he can do. The players have to beat their man 1on1 when given that opportunity- they have to execute better. And I haven't even had too much of a problem with his blitzing percentage... but he's making it blatantly obvious to these QBs where the pressure is coming from if they're consistently finding holes in our coverage early. They're knowing presnap where to dump the ball off to. Tom Brady doing it was one thing, but Mike Vick destroying us with consistently plowing through our coverage by going Brent Celek.

It just bothers me that when he brings pressure, QBs are finding WIDE OPEN guys far too often. If it happens a few times, it's a blown coverage... but it's happened far too often. It simply has to be a scheming issue. The blitzes have no chance at actually impacting the QB half the time because they're getting the ball out entirely too fast. That's a problem.

Cam on the other hand has mostly been fine. Most of the show has been Joe being allowed to run the show. Though I would like to see a little more running of the football. It's pretty pathetic that we're only something like 25th in rushing attempts per game. We have two really talented backs on the active roster along with the best FB in the game... we should be at least top 20 in rushing attempts, I'd like to think. Though maybe that number increased when the weather starts to cool some.


I absolutely agree with you that Pagano had the better grasp of his players strengths, no doubt about it.

Without having seen nearly enough football this season, I think the main issue is probably the passrush, or the lack thereof. I think we can agree upon that the players are not making the plays they need to. Perhaps Pees could be setting up the blitzes better, just like a lot of the other coordinators around the league, but I don't think he's been doing a poor job to this date.
His biggest issue has probably been that even though he's managed to get his players in favorable match-ups they haven't taken advantage of them. Of course some defensive genius would device a plan to get a guy wide open on every blitz, but those coordinators are few and far between, realistically we shouldn't be demanding much than he's already doing.

Now I'm not trying to argue that there is nothing wrong with the defence, because there obviously is, but it might not be as much the scheme as the execution.
I think the issue at hand is that Pees doesn't trust the rush to get there in time so he asks the secondary to play off so they don't get beat deep. He obviously also feels a need to blitz a lot to compensate for the poor rush, but on the other hand he seems reluctant to use slow developing "deceptive" blitzes as these require more from the secondary in terms of covering for longer periods.

To me the problem herein lies with the fact that he has no yet chosen his poison, so to speak. At some point he either has to trust the secondary to being able to cover long enough for the blitz to get there, or he has to trust his passrush and let the corners play press. If he doesn't we'll keep seeing the corners play off when it's obvious the rush is too straight forward to fool anyone.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 7540
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
Welcome back. I was just thinking to myself where you and Dan were.

In terms of Pees, the difference between Pagano and him is that Pagano better understood the strengths of the players. For instance, Pees has our corners playing at least 10 yards off the ball on the vast majority of plays- sometimes they look ever deeper. One could see why he would do that against the fast burner type of WRs like we faced against the Eagles.

But why were we giving the Browns WRs so much of a cushion? Last year Cary Williams looked pretty darn competent at corner, he was aggressive at the line and had good coverage. This year however, we've removed part of his comfort zone and he's struggled mightily. Jimmy Smith has also proven to be a much more effective corner when pressing at the LOS.

Pees is setting our secondary players up for failure and not adjusting to their strengths. And with regards to the pass rush, I tend to agree that there isn't much he can do. The players have to beat their man 1on1 when given that opportunity- they have to execute better. And I haven't even had too much of a problem with his blitzing percentage... but he's making it blatantly obvious to these QBs where the pressure is coming from if they're consistently finding holes in our coverage early. They're knowing presnap where to dump the ball off to. Tom Brady doing it was one thing, but Mike Vick destroying us with consistently plowing through our coverage by going Brent Celek.

It just bothers me that when he brings pressure, QBs are finding WIDE OPEN guys far too often. If it happens a few times, it's a blown coverage... but it's happened far too often. It simply has to be a scheming issue. The blitzes have no chance at actually impacting the QB half the time because they're getting the ball out entirely too fast. That's a problem.

Cam on the other hand has mostly been fine. Most of the show has been Joe being allowed to run the show. Though I would like to see a little more running of the football. It's pretty pathetic that we're only something like 25th in rushing attempts per game. We have two really talented backs on the active roster along with the best FB in the game... we should be at least top 20 in rushing attempts, I'd like to think. Though maybe that number increased when the weather starts to cool some.


diamondbull424 wrote:
Well the only logical answer appears to be that he's not disguising his blitz/coverages very well.

What good is a blitz if you're going to show where you're leaving yourself open. It's like what good is a giant nearly impenetrable suit of armor, if you've got a giant red spot on your suit that reads "WEAK HERE".

If he disguised things better QBs might not locate the holes as quickly. I think this is what we get when we go from having a coordinator who was a DBs coach who understood coverages at an elite level, to a LBers coach... whose only claim to fame is that he was a DC under Belichick. At least Rex was like, to hell with coverages. I'm just going to put my guys on an island, man on man, and blitz the hell out of you to get it done. Peas wants to do all of these pretty zone looks in coverage, but doesn't understand how to do them without leaving giant holes throughout. He should leave the more complex coverages to the professionals that are actually good at it.


Applause

I couldn't describe it any better myself. Pees just isn't providing the defense with a good scheme and I don't think you can attribute it to the players not executing. A defense with the personnel that the Ravens have (even without Suggs) doesn't take a big step back without something changing with the way they're being used. This was basically the same argument that people used in defense of Mattison when he was still the DC and I think that had to be proven wrong last season when Pagano took over. Webb stepped up and Williams was fairly decent the whole season but other than that nothing changed with the players. Now Webb stepping up the way he did was huge but just that didn't elevate the defense to what we saw last season compared to the previous two or three.

As for Cameron... it's just more of the same. Somebody on another forum mentioned that his worst showings were during prime-time games because he's trying to put on a show to get attention for another HC job and it almost feels that way. I don't think that's really the case but he seems like he's trying to showcase the passing game all the time and when he does run it's completely obvious and the defense is prepared for it. Again, more of the same pretty much.
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