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I was wrong about Weeden. (Fire Shurmer!!)
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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
kelbot wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
kelbot wrote:
But not as much as keeping a good coach for 3 years.


Fixed.

Romeo was here longer than 3 years.


Shurmur is not as incompetent as Romeo still is. I would argue he has been put in a near impossible situation. 19 games into it, Ii can't think of a game he cost us. I like his principles. His ego doesn't get in his way. There have been worse given more time. Evidenced by your post.

A lot is made of targeting receivers before the marker on third downs. And it's usually attributed to play design/calling. Realistically, there are progressions and checkdowns on all plays that aren't hail marys. You can't just run 4 verts every play. It's not easy to convert 3rd and 8. Good defenses set up at the sticks and bring pressure to force the quick throw. Sometimes, the best choice is giving Trich a chance to get 8 instead of forcing a seam to poor route runners against 2 deep.


I completely agree.

I see offenses in the NFL complete passes short of the sticks and WRs turn and get the yardage they need every game. It's what the defense gives you, but the QB has to be smart with his read and accurate with his throw. Weeden isn't there yet.

What gets me steaming is when everyone who is watching, especially the defensive players, know that it's going to be a pass and we have Weeden drop back and fake a handoff. IT DOES NOTHING. Especially when you haven't run the ball A SINGLE TIME IN THE 4th QUARTER.

A lot of these plays being called in critical times are really setting our guys up for failure, and they're definitely producing in that regard.

On the deep sideline passes, we weren't giving the QB enough room to drop it on the outside shoulder. Either that's an errant point of emphasis in coaching, or it's a lack of emphasis in coaching. Both ways, it's on the coach to put his players in better positions to make plays.

I don't see that happening, so there's no doubt in my mind we'll see a change at HC after this year.


Nice posts gentlemen.

I don't think Shurmur has been awful, but he certainly screwed the pooch last Sunday.

ditch already gave some of the numbers, 0 rushing attempts in the 4th quarter, 4 after halftime, 13 for the game. Unacceptable.

Shurmur is in a hard spot though. With the team sold and the general consensus being that Holmgren is probably out, he looks like a lame duck. We've lost 9 in row and a new guy's coming in. What else is there to say? This team appears to be spiraling out of control and will have a hard time winning even a couple games this season based on what we've seen.

Shurmur certainly plays a role in the poor performance we've seen over the last season +, but I'm not sure yet how large of a role.

The only way Shurmur isn't gone is if this team gets it together quick and rattles off a few wins, starting tonight. An 0-4 start (0-2 in the division) will probably be the kiss of death for Shurmur.
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BooyaCS


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
kelbot wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
kelbot wrote:
But not as much as keeping a good coach for 3 years.


Fixed.

Romeo was here longer than 3 years.


Shurmur is not as incompetent as Romeo still is. I would argue he has been put in a near impossible situation. 19 games into it, Ii can't think of a game he cost us. I like his principles. His ego doesn't get in his way. There have been worse given more time. Evidenced by your post.

A lot is made of targeting receivers before the marker on third downs. And it's usually attributed to play design/calling. Realistically, there are progressions and checkdowns on all plays that aren't hail marys. You can't just run 4 verts every play. It's not easy to convert 3rd and 8. Good defenses set up at the sticks and bring pressure to force the quick throw. Sometimes, the best choice is giving Trich a chance to get 8 instead of forcing a seam to poor route runners against 2 deep.


I completely agree.

I see offenses in the NFL complete passes short of the sticks and WRs turn and get the yardage they need every game. It's what the defense gives you, but the QB has to be smart with his read and accurate with his throw. Weeden isn't there yet.

What gets me steaming is when everyone who is watching, especially the defensive players, know that it's going to be a pass and we have Weeden drop back and fake a handoff. IT DOES NOTHING. Especially when you haven't run the ball A SINGLE TIME IN THE 4th QUARTER.

A lot of these plays being called in critical times are really setting our guys up for failure, and they're definitely producing in that regard.

On the deep sideline passes, we weren't giving the QB enough room to drop it on the outside shoulder. Either that's an errant point of emphasis in coaching, or it's a lack of emphasis in coaching. Both ways, it's on the coach to put his players in better positions to make plays.

I don't see that happening, so there's no doubt in my mind we'll see a change at HC after this year.


Nice posts gentlemen.

I don't think Shurmur has been awful, but he certainly screwed the pooch last Sunday.

ditch already gave some of the numbers, 0 rushing attempts in the 4th quarter, 4 after halftime, 13 for the game. Unacceptable.

Shurmur is in a hard spot though. With the team sold and the general consensus being that Holmgren is probably out, he looks like a lame duck. We've lost 9 in row and a new guy's coming in. What else is there to say? This team appears to be spiraling out of control and will have a hard time winning even a couple games this season based on what we've seen.

Shurmur certainly plays a role in the poor performance we've seen over the last season +, but I'm not sure yet how large of a role.

The only way Shurmur isn't gone is if this team gets it together quick and rattles off a few wins, starting tonight. An 0-4 start (0-2 in the division) will probably be the kiss of death for Shurmur.


The actual coaching for Shurmur isn't the issue. I think it is everything leading up to the game (ie see scripted plays and such).
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:

The actual coaching for Shurmur isn't the issue. I think it is everything leading up to the game (ie see scripted plays and such).


You aren't scripting 4th quarter plays.

His late game playcalling was atrocious.
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bruceb


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:

The actual coaching for Shurmur isn't the issue. I think it is everything leading up to the game (ie see scripted plays and such).


You aren't scripting 4th quarter plays.

His late game playcalling was atrocious.


Usually is.

Clock management at end of half and game, too.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:

The actual coaching for Shurmur isn't the issue. I think it is everything leading up to the game (ie see scripted plays and such).


You aren't scripting 4th quarter plays.

His late game playcalling was atrocious.


Usually is.

Clock management at end of half and game, too.


Complete lie.

Lemme guess, you think every play of the game is scripted too huh? Laughing
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bruceb


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You weren't wrong about Weeden. Here's what we got tonight:


Browns Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating
Weeden 25 52 320 48.1 6.2 1 6 0 1 59.8

Ya, ya I know there were a lot of drops. Same as for McCoy last year.

I'm sure there will be another QBR > 114 or more (hope we win them).

Otherwise, I think we had better get used to 60+/-
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BooyaCS


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:

The actual coaching for Shurmur isn't the issue. I think it is everything leading up to the game (ie see scripted plays and such).


You aren't scripting 4th quarter plays.

His late game playcalling was atrocious.


Actually his late game playcalling isn't bad when you are playing from behind what do you expect to happen? It is horrible when they come out and are so predictable to start the game (see the buffalo game). Tonight was much better but still left some to be desired.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:

The actual coaching for Shurmur isn't the issue. I think it is everything leading up to the game (ie see scripted plays and such).


You aren't scripting 4th quarter plays.

His late game playcalling was atrocious.


Actually his late game playcalling isn't bad when you are playing from behind what do you expect to happen? It is horrible when they come out and are so predictable to start the game (see the buffalo game). Tonight was much better but still left some to be desired.


Tonight was better, but Shurmur absolutely forgets Richardson after halftime.
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BooyaCS


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:

The actual coaching for Shurmur isn't the issue. I think it is everything leading up to the game (ie see scripted plays and such).


You aren't scripting 4th quarter plays.

His late game playcalling was atrocious.


Actually his late game playcalling isn't bad when you are playing from behind what do you expect to happen? It is horrible when they come out and are so predictable to start the game (see the buffalo game). Tonight was much better but still left some to be desired.


Tonight was better, but Shurmur absolutely forgets Richardson after halftime.


He is playing from behind most of the time.

Also the Ravens tonight were putting 8 in the box after half time to stop Richardson. Once we couldn't stop them on the opening drive and we went down 15-7 is when we started throwing.

It seems he (shurmur) knows our defense isn't that good and if a team comes out and scores on us like that after half-time he assumes that he has to answer it or we get blown out.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:

The actual coaching for Shurmur isn't the issue. I think it is everything leading up to the game (ie see scripted plays and such).


You aren't scripting 4th quarter plays.

His late game playcalling was atrocious.


Actually his late game playcalling isn't bad when you are playing from behind what do you expect to happen? It is horrible when they come out and are so predictable to start the game (see the buffalo game). Tonight was much better but still left some to be desired.


Tonight was better, but Shurmur absolutely forgets Richardson after halftime.


He is playing from behind most of the time.

Also the Ravens tonight were putting 8 in the box after half time to stop Richardson. Once we couldn't stop them on the opening drive and we went down 15-7 is when we started throwing.

It seems he (shurmur) knows our defense isn't that good and if a team comes out and scores on us like that after half-time he assumes that he has to answer it or we get blown out.


Playing from behind doesn't mean you have to abandon the run.

52 passes is absurd, no matter how you slice it.

Your offense shouldn't change because you are down 10 with a quarter left.
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BooyaCS


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:

The actual coaching for Shurmur isn't the issue. I think it is everything leading up to the game (ie see scripted plays and such).


You aren't scripting 4th quarter plays.

His late game playcalling was atrocious.


Actually his late game playcalling isn't bad when you are playing from behind what do you expect to happen? It is horrible when they come out and are so predictable to start the game (see the buffalo game). Tonight was much better but still left some to be desired.


Tonight was better, but Shurmur absolutely forgets Richardson after halftime.


He is playing from behind most of the time.

Also the Ravens tonight were putting 8 in the box after half time to stop Richardson. Once we couldn't stop them on the opening drive and we went down 15-7 is when we started throwing.

It seems he (shurmur) knows our defense isn't that good and if a team comes out and scores on us like that after half-time he assumes that he has to answer it or we get blown out.


Playing from behind doesn't mean you have to abandon the run.

52 passes is absurd, no matter how you slice it.

Your offense shouldn't change because you are down 10 with a quarter left.


Yes it should. You are down 10 with a quarter left. Lets say the average scoring drive takes 5 - 6 minutes you need 2 of those and therefore need to limit the other team to 1 - 2 drives in the quarter. You need 2 scores and quick you throw the football.

This isn't 1970 when you run 40 times and throw 20.

Sorry to all the "older" generation throwing the football is the wave of the future. Running the ball is getting less and less important. That is why it was completely dumb to pick a RB in the top 10 of the draft.
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ditchdigger


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:

The actual coaching for Shurmur isn't the issue. I think it is everything leading up to the game (ie see scripted plays and such).


You aren't scripting 4th quarter plays.

His late game playcalling was atrocious.


Actually his late game playcalling isn't bad when you are playing from behind what do you expect to happen? It is horrible when they come out and are so predictable to start the game (see the buffalo game). Tonight was much better but still left some to be desired.


Tonight was better, but Shurmur absolutely forgets Richardson after halftime.


He is playing from behind most of the time.

Also the Ravens tonight were putting 8 in the box after half time to stop Richardson. Once we couldn't stop them on the opening drive and we went down 15-7 is when we started throwing.

It seems he (shurmur) knows our defense isn't that good and if a team comes out and scores on us like that after half-time he assumes that he has to answer it or we get blown out.


Playing from behind doesn't mean you have to abandon the run.

52 passes is absurd, no matter how you slice it.

Your offense shouldn't change because you are down 10 with a quarter left.


Yes it should. You are down 10 with a quarter left. Lets say the average scoring drive takes 5 - 6 minutes you need 2 of those and therefore need to limit the other team to 1 - 2 drives in the quarter. You need 2 scores and quick you throw the football.

This isn't 1970 when you run 40 times and throw 20.

Sorry to all the "older" generation throwing the football is the wave of the future. Running the ball is getting less and less important. That is why it was completely dumb to pick a RB in the top 10 of the draft.


The only thing that is dumb is the idea that the RB position is "devalued".

The 10th highest paid RB in the league is making an average of $8M per season.

The top 4 make $10-12M per season.

And all those contracts were signed within the last three years.

Quite far from "devalued".
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Mastercheddaar


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:33 am    Post subject: hmmm Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
Shurmur is an idiot, and needs to go. I do not blame him for anything however. He didn't HIRE himself.

If you hire Corky from the show "Life Goes On", are you gonna blame Corky for going 0-16??


LOL... I got yelled at last year for wanting his head. I finally agreed to quit b!@#$ching about him until this year. I'll wait until the end of the season to start my ranting if Haslem doesn't fire him and walrus.

that is all

Mastercheddaar
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BooyaCS


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:34 am    Post subject: Re: hmmm Reply with quote

Mastercheddaar wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
Shurmur is an idiot, and needs to go. I do not blame him for anything however. He didn't HIRE himself.

If you hire Corky from the show "Life Goes On", are you gonna blame Corky for going 0-16??


LOL... I got yelled at last year for wanting his head. I finally agreed to quit b!@#$ching about him until this year. I'll wait until the end of the season to start my ranting if Haslem doesn't fire him and walrus.

that is all

Mastercheddaar


How many times do we have to go through a reboot after 2 sesaons.

Cleveland the most ignorant and negative fanbase in the NFL.

If Haslem was smart he would just move the team now.
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: hmmm Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
Mastercheddaar wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
Shurmur is an idiot, and needs to go. I do not blame him for anything however. He didn't HIRE himself.

If you hire Corky from the show "Life Goes On", are you gonna blame Corky for going 0-16??


LOL... I got yelled at last year for wanting his head. I finally agreed to quit b!@#$ching about him until this year. I'll wait until the end of the season to start my ranting if Haslem doesn't fire him and walrus.

that is all

Mastercheddaar


How many times do we have to go through a reboot after 2 sesaons.

Cleveland the most ignorant and negative fanbase in the NFL.

If Haslem was smart he would just move the team now.


Nobody wants to rebuild. However it will probably happen if we keep losing.

Haslam can't move the team anyways until 2030
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