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Oh, mercy...it's Percy!
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps it is more of a function of play calling for that matter. If Harvin can show he can play on the outside, i would probably be more willing to give him that lucrative deal if i were the Vikings. the Vikes have a slot WR in Wright, but what they really need are two outside WRs. If Harvin can fill that void, he definitely has a spot on the team. If he cant fill that void, I think the Vikes would be smart to explore there options to see if Harvin can aid in obtaining a perimeter receiver.

I do agree though that Harvin showed some ability to make plays downfield last year, and maybe it was just coaches being stubborn and constantly force feeding the ball to Harvin underneath. I guess I am concerned with Harvin on the team with the Vikings forcing him the ball too much to the point where defenses know what to expect. Which in turn, limits the passing game and potentially limits the off tackle running game as well.
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Freakout


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Perhaps it is more of a function of play calling for that matter. If Harvin can show he can play on the outside, i would probably be more willing to give him that lucrative deal if i were the Vikings. the Vikes have a slot WR in Wright, but what they really need are two outside WRs. If Harvin can fill that void, he definitely has a spot on the team. If he cant fill that void, I think the Vikes would be smart to explore there options to see if Harvin can aid in obtaining a perimeter receiver.

I do agree though that Harvin showed some ability to make plays downfield last year, and maybe it was just coaches being stubborn and constantly force feeding the ball to Harvin underneath. I guess I am concerned with Harvin on the team with the Vikings forcing him the ball too much to the point where defenses know what to expect. Which in turn, limits the passing game and potentially limits the off tackle running game as well.


I honestly do not know what to think. In our base 2 TE / TE & FB sets Harvin stays on the field as the flanker. With him being out Simpson and Jenkins are our 2 starting WR's. Wright is only coming in when we go with a 3 WR set. So it isn't as simple as Harvin vs Wright. It is like saying we are better with Jenkins in place of Harvin in our 2 WR sets. Which I think we all know isn't true. Maybe the killer is having Harvin and Jenkins lined up on the same side of the field. Where neither are considered deep threats. Where as Wright and Jenkins mesh better with Wright seemingly doing more vertical routes.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically, I think the point is more well rounded WRs will give the offense more looks, will make it more unpredictable, and will make it more effective.

Jenkins is a one dimensional WR. Harvin was largely a one dimensional WR given how he was used. Wright was used really all over the field, short, intermediate and in the deep passing game. Wright might be the Vikings most versatile WR in terms of use within the offense. Perhaps using Wright in more of the down field passing game would be ideal, but I question if i can be as effective on the outside. How many 5-9 WRs make it out on the boundary. Atleast Harvin has decent height to fill that void, which is why I think Wright can only be a slot WR in the NFL.
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Lil Uno


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

On one hand, you could argue the offense was more efficient without Harvin. Ponder seemed to mature much faster, being forced to make reads rather than dumping it off to Harvin. You also have to wonder what kind of attitude Harvin is really displaying behind closed doors. I mean if you can't get along with Leslie Frazier, who can you get along with. If he does stay put, you then have to worry about what kind of contract to give him.

On the other hand, Harvin is one of the more dynamic players in the league. When was the last time someone as explosive and young as Harvin left via trade. Also, draft picks have depreciated in value and it's unlikely we see any type of compensation to resemble the type of player Harvin is.

If we can get two outside WR's then I would keep him. Harvin has had success outside, but he hasn't progressed into the vertical threat we need him to be. Without that ability on the outside, he really limits what the offense can do which is why I believe the team did better without him. If you get those two outside WR's to stretch the field and allow Harvin to work underneath, you have yourself a dangerous offense.
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really have no clue which side I stand on this issue. Honestly, I don't really care either way.

I have faith in our management. If they feel his worth a big extension, then I agree. If they feel trading him gives us the best value going forward, fine by me. I just hope it's resolved somehow this offseason. Either extend him or trade him.
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Basically, I think the point is more well rounded WRs will give the offense more looks, will make it more unpredictable, and will make it more effective.

Jenkins is a one dimensional WR. Harvin was largely a one dimensional WR given how he was used. Wright was used really all over the field, short, intermediate and in the deep passing game. Wright might be the Vikings most versatile WR in terms of use within the offense. Perhaps using Wright in more of the down field passing game would be ideal, but I question if i can be as effective on the outside. How many 5-9 WRs make it out on the boundary. Atleast Harvin has decent height to fill that void, which is why I think Wright can only be a slot WR in the NFL.


I wouldn't be so sure Wright is purely a slot guy.

Heck, Steve Smith is short, and he's an outside WR.

I think Santonio Holmes, Antonio Brown, Anquan Boldin etc are all shorter recievers and yet they play on the outside.

Even if they are an inch or 2 taller than Wright (Who's listed at 5'10?)
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GoTommies66


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if instead of trying to get draft picks for Harvin in the 2013 draft, we instead looked to the 2014 draft? think about it.. What rlse would we have to give up in addition to Harvin to pull in a first round pick in next years draft? Im not entirely sure what the top end talent looks like in next years draft looks like, but this years doesnt look all that great..

I believe if we get a FA WR this offseason, and maybe a third round WR we will finally see if Ponders the answer (i personally believe he is) and if hes not the answer, we then have tso first round picks to move up to take a top end QB, which if im correct, looks alot better in next years draft than this years..

And say Ponder is the answer, we still have two first round picks to work with in next years draft, enough ammo to trade up and use on the D, or get two solid players..

I just think that by the end of next year, we will know what we have in Ponder, so high picks in next years draft are more important than additional picks in this years draft, imho of course
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[UMN]


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's say Mike Wallace refuses to resign with PIT, and Harvin wants out in MN...

any chance of a straight up trade of Harvin for Wallace? Both players get a fresh start, and I think both teams each get a player that better fits what they need (flanker/deep threat for MN, playmaker for PIT).
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure that can be done? Trade can't open up til the new league year right? By that time Wallace won't be under contract. I suppose Wallace could accept the franchise tag if the Steelers have a trade worked out.

However, player for player trades players trades are rare things in the NFL. It's all about picks.
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[UMN]


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
I'm not sure that can be done? Trade can't open up til the new league year right? By that time Wallace won't be under contract. I suppose Wallace could accept the franchise tag if the Steelers have a trade worked out.

However, player for player trades players trades are rare things in the NFL. It's all about picks.

That is what I meant, a tag-and-trade scenario.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What all went into the decision to place Percy Harvin on injured reserve with that ankle injury in early December?

Spielman: "I'm not going to say anything that hasn't been said. It's something that we felt was best for Percy. We didn't want to ruin any long-term or longevity issues and put him out there if he wasn't going to be able to play and risk further injury."


Was he suspended for conduct detrimental to the team?

Spielman: "No."


Did he fight the decision to put him on IR?

Spielman: "Again, when we talk about that, Percy was, as any player, is so competitive that they want to play. Mentally, you may want to play, but physically, you may not be able to play. And then sometimes, when you make those decisions, you've got to make it in which you think is in the best interest of the football player for the long term, because ... he's right in the prime of his career. He's 24, 25 years old."


Do you have any concerns about Harvin character-wise, attitude-wise, anything else?

Spielman: "No. Percy comes to work every day. Everybody sees what Percy puts on the field. He plays the game as hard or harder than anyone else in the NFL, the effort that he puts up out there. So, we have no issues with Percy Harvin."

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/QA_with_Vikings_GM_Rick_Spielman_A_real_bitter_taste_from_playoffs011013
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Conquest8089


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Statements by Spielman sounds like a Trade is going to eventually come to fruition. The question is his value.

Worth noting, Joel Segal represents Percy. He's pulled this maneuver before- Randy Moss 2005. As a show of his gratitude, Darren Sharper signed 10 days later.

The player clearly wants out of Minnesota. He's not helpful for the Culture of the organization. The best path forward is to maintain negotiating leverage. Make it appear he's part of the longterm plan. Pull off a trade prior to the Draft.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Vikes are saying the right things to keep the value as high as possible.

I am all for the trade if it opens the door to more free agent options at WR and gives the team more options with early picks to add more ideal receiving targets or add to the defense.
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[UMN]


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
The Vikes are saying the right things to keep the value as high as possible.

or if they want to keep him. I don't see anything in his statements that suggest a trade is coming.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[UMN] wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
The Vikes are saying the right things to keep the value as high as possible.

or if they want to keep him. I don't see anything in his statements that suggest a trade is coming.


Me neither.

My point was basically to say that the Vikes said nothing, Which is what you want to do in this situation.
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