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Oh, mercy...it's Percy!
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disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 22736
Location: Brownbackistan
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
rpmwr19 wrote:
I hate Mike Florio sometimes...

He tries too hard to find stuff when often there isn't anything there. Not saying it's the case, but still, it can get annoying.

gosh, i don't know. Ponder surely isn't saying he feels it's even likely Harvin will be back.


The reality is that Ponder doesn't really know anymore than we do, so of course, he's going to say "I'm not sure", as he's heard all the same speculation we have. I wouldn't take what Ponder said as any supporting evidence of what reality is.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I've made up my mind.

I really like Percy Harvin, but I think we are better suited trading him.

He's not an outside reciever/deep threat. It's very rare to see him run 40 yards down the field to make a big play. I can only count like 4 times of that actually happening. At this point, Jarius Wright is better at it.

Harvin is a lateral kind of player. You use him like a RB. You throw screens his way, you play him in the slot, or you hand him the ball. He adds another player in the box to stop him. It helps/hurts Peterson, our true go to guy.

and he's a phenomenal kick returner. Perhaps the best in the business. No knock on him there.

If we could get a 1st round pick for him, I'd absolutely do it.
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AP_allday2869


Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:


If we could get a 1st round pick for him, I'd absolutely do it.


It depends. If its toward the end of round 1 I'd forget about it. However, if we could get like a second this year and a first next year I wouldn't mind that so much.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AP_allday2869 wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:


If we could get a 1st round pick for him, I'd absolutely do it.


It depends. If its toward the end of round 1 I'd forget about it. However, if we could get like a second this year and a first next year I wouldn't mind that so much.

That's a lot of value... I don't know if The Vikings could get that much.
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Klomp


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
AP_allday2869 wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:


If we could get a 1st round pick for him, I'd absolutely do it.


It depends. If its toward the end of round 1 I'd forget about it. However, if we could get like a second this year and a first next year I wouldn't mind that so much.

That's a lot of value... I don't know if The Vikings could get that much.


Theres NO WAY we would get that much. The ceiling is a late 1st/early 2nd and maybe a 4th/5th.
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The Gnat


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
AP_allday2869 wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:


If we could get a 1st round pick for him, I'd absolutely do it.


It depends. If its toward the end of round 1 I'd forget about it. However, if we could get like a second this year and a first next year I wouldn't mind that so much.

That's a lot of value... I don't know if The Vikings could get that much.


It's the equivalent of 2 2nd round picks in terms of trade value. Probably a little steep though.
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VikeSince70


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gnat wrote:
rpmwr19 wrote:
AP_allday2869 wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:


If we could get a 1st round pick for him, I'd absolutely do it.


It depends. If its toward the end of round 1 I'd forget about it. However, if we could get like a second this year and a first next year I wouldn't mind that so much.

That's a lot of value... I don't know if The Vikings could get that much.


It's the equivalent of 2 2nd round picks in terms of trade value. Probably a little steep though.


When we traded Randy Moss to Oakland we received linebacker Napoleon Harris and the Raiders' first (7th overall, which Minnesota parlayed into WR Troy Williamson) and seventh-round picks in the NFL draft. I beleive that Harvin is that type of player and someone out there will overpay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Moss
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AQuintus


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worm Guts wrote:


If Harvin had taken the next step as an outside receiver, would we even be able to tell? There's alot going on that's potentially inhibiting our downfield passing.


I'd say yes. Our downfield passing game was never great this year, but it got a lot better once Wright finally got onto the field.
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AP_ALL_DAY_28


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gnat wrote:
rpmwr19 wrote:
AP_allday2869 wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:


If we could get a 1st round pick for him, I'd absolutely do it.


It depends. If its toward the end of round 1 I'd forget about it. However, if we could get like a second this year and a first next year I wouldn't mind that so much.

That's a lot of value... I don't know if The Vikings could get that much.


It's the equivalent of 2 2nd round picks in terms of trade value. Probably a little steep though.


Especially considering that most have been saying they'd be lucky to get a 2nd for Percy.

I love Percy, I don't want to see them get rid of him.

Yeah I know he's not a deep threat at all, but they can draft someone who is.

Percy's a hell of a football player & they shouldn't get rid of him unless he specifically says he wants to be traded.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AQuintus wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:


If Harvin had taken the next step as an outside receiver, would we even be able to tell? There's alot going on that's potentially inhibiting our downfield passing.


I'd say yes. Our downfield passing game was never great this year, but it got a lot better once Wright finally got onto the field.


And the running game got a heck of a lot more explosive off tackle.
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Worm Guts


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair Peterson's hot streak started before Harvin got hurt.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worm Guts wrote:
To be fair Peterson's hot streak started before Harvin got hurt.


You could say that. though there seemed to be more big runs off tackle without Harvin in the lineup that there was with him. We cant know exactly if there is a correlation but its reasonable to suggest that with defenses defending the bubble play (which takes place off tackle) there could have been more emphasis in defending that part of the field with Harvin in the slot versus Wright.
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CriminalMind


Joined: 25 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hope theirs not a growing feeling that Wrights presences on the field "aided" AP down the final stretch, in regards to how it was when Harvin was there.

Soo much additional factors:
AP's strength
Play calling
Ponders Confidence
O-Line improvement
Defense improvement
Game Planning

Etc Etc
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
I really hope theirs not a growing feeling that Wrights presences on the field "aided" AP down the final stretch, in regards to how it was when Harvin was there.

Soo much additional factors:
AP's strength
Play calling
Ponders Confidence
O-Line improvement
Defense improvement
Game Planning

Etc Etc


It could be one of the factors, so it may as well be considered in that list.

Strategically, teams focused on shutting down Harvin in the short passing game. This much is fact. When a player catches half there passes at or behind the LOS, where are you going to focus your defensive personnel towards? Where he burns you surely, and when Harvin was in the lineup, that was around the LOS. Catching bubble screens, drags, etc.. plays that relied on Harvin making defenders miss in space mostly off tackle or in the slot.

There are so many factors that went into Peterson's great season, but I cant help but think that how defenses played the Vikings before Harvin and after Harvin could have contributed to Peterson's season as well.

But ultimately, this factor wont play a part in determining Harvin's future. Not at all. What is Harvin's future given that Wright has showed he can be an effective slot WR?
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put that on the play calling, and not on Harvin inability to catch intermediate to longer passess.
They called short passes to Harvin, so the defenses adjusted.
They didnt call many longer passes to Harvin for whatever reasons be it.
Harvin was a safety blanket for the short passess that helped keep TOs down the potentially thought earlier in the season.

If you put Harvin out there now, it would be best to do call more intermediate-longer passess to Harvin, ala how it was called in Farves 1st season.

He has the ability to make the catches, just they called a different type of offsense in the 1st half of the year compared to the 2nd. Its moreso the progression of the offense, the OC understand his personel more, Ponder progression in limiting mistakes and prolonging drives, the O-Line, defense getting off on 3rd down giving more chances etc etc.
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